I was hoping to get to this yesterday, but as some of the mods know, I have chronic health issues, and wasn't feeling very well.

My plan to respond directly to Airianna's epic post has also changed, since there have been so many posts in response to it. Instead, I will simply state my own beliefs, to compliment or contrast with what has went before.

I believe the keeping of the Sabbath is still important. However, due to Jesus and the grace given by God through Him, we have freedom on Sunday in many things.

First, it doesn't matter what day our Sabbath is on.

Second, basic work and chores, such as cooking, are fine on Sunday, as illustrated by Jesus allowing his disciples to pick grain on the Sabbath.

Third, jobs that serve needs rather than wants, such as the medical profession, are also fine, as illustrated by Jesus healing on the Sabbath.

Fourth, jobs that serve wants should not be engaged in on Sunday lightly. There is a story of a pastor who went to eat at a restaurant after church, and as he was witnessing to his waiter he asked the waiter why he didn't go to church. The waiter replied, "Because I have to work on Sunday due to people like you." Food is a need, but it can be prepared at home or in a group setting at church, and eating at a restaurant is a want.

Fifth, I am still debating whether working on Sunday for 'wants' is a sin, or just unwise.

This is a complex topic, as most topics are, so let the discussion continue.

That was what I figured your stance would be on the subject, Jonathan. It is a very complex issue, and an important one to wade through and find your own personal conviction on.

I agree with Raven! Couldn't have said it better myself!

Galatians is beautifully eloquent on the law as a schoolmaster and salvation by faith yet working, as Airi said, 'out our salvation'. A beautiful and tremendous book if you want a thorough understanding of the place of the law in our lives. James also says much about how important 'fruit' is.

Perhaps it is important to note here that love (as it says in Romans 13) is the fulfilment of the law. I believe Romans is talking mostly about the law as laid out in Leviticus etc. just here, but Jesus confirmed that love also covers and fulfills the Ten Commandments.

'Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.' (Mtt. 22:37-40)

This makes sense in that it doesn't cancel the law, but makes it even greater. Take John 14 which says, 'If ye love me, keep my commandments'. Love is the fulfilling of the law in more senses than one. We see it in Christ's sacrifice. We see it in our love for Him and subseqent obedience. I guess its really a way of living.

Obedience without love is useless. (1 Cor 13:1-3) But faith without obedience is dead. (Jas 2:17) So I look at writing within this context... and consequently agree with previous posters. No objection to writing on Sunday as I write worshiping, that He might be magnified in my body. Besides, as those before me have said, its a personal way of resting. Mum loves doing dishes for relaxation. Dad loves gardening for the same. I write.

Then, of course, as Airi pointed out, there a times its necessary to 'work' on Sundays. And if I had to I'd do my best to set aside another day (half-day, hours?) for rest. Sometimes, though, I expect this might not be possible.

*welcomes all thoughts*

I believe that the Sabbath is now Sunday (as illustrated, for instance, by the disciples always meeting on Sunday, etc.), and hence I try not to write then (as, I might make money off of it).
God bless,
Joel ><>.

I agree, Cassandra, and I think you put that well.

My thanks.

I've for a long time understood the Ten Commandments to be, not just ten of the however-many-hundreds of laws in the capital-L-Law, but a summary of them (somewhat more practical than the one Jesus gives, that you quoted next) and the framework on which the Law hangs. (Which is why, after the Reformation, the German states replaced their civil law codes---which had been based around the framework of the seven cardinal or "deadly" sins---with new ones based on the framework of the Ten Commandments.)



Note that Jesus is quoting from two sections of the Mosaic Law there; this wasn't anything new. What was revolutionary in his teaching was what these meant: that yes, "with all your heart, soul, and mind" really means all, and "love your neighbor as yourself" really means "as yourself" and "your neighbor" means more than "your countryman". In other words, that al these people who were so proud of themselves for keeping the Law in its minute details were actually frequently breaking it.



Sometimes it's necessary to work on the Sabbath: emergencies arise (Jesus cites the ox-in-a-ditch case, and brings it home practically by healing a man), and in any case "the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath." But it seems to me (as it's been pointed out to me) that one of the purposes of the Sabbath in the Law was to teach us to trust God. For example, suppose it's harvest time, and the Sabbath, and it looks like it might rain tomorrow. Do I go out on the Sabbath to bring in the grain, or do I hope it doesn't rain and make the grain rot on the vine, and trust that God will provide for me and my family even if the harvest is ruined? (This is made even more clear by the requirement that they not even plant for one year in seven, and one extra year beyond that every half-century.)

Another thing is that the idea of "resting" on the Sabbath as meaning primarily "relaxation" is a comparatively modern notion. The Law says about the Sabbath (and other "holy days" it describes in similar terms), "do no regular work" (emphasis mine). And so the Puritans, among others, had church services all day except for meals, and the rest of the time was devoted to religious instruction within the family (for example, teaching the children the catechism).

*nods*



Mmmm... I realize this.



I think perhaps the two fit in together. The 'relaxation' view and 'no regular work' view, I mean.

*will return*

No regular work?

That rules out writing as work then.

Yep!!

My thoughts fall somewhat in line with what John Piper writes/speaks:

Is There a Lord's Day?

I'll be back later for a more indepth comment.

eru

Allow me to offer a thought.

I've heard the Romans 14 argument, about "one man esteems one day above another, one man all the same." However: who's to say this is even talking about days of the week, and not Jewish festivals and such, given in the Old Testament? For...

Colossians 2:16-17
New King James Version (NKJV)
16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.

"Festival"; "New Moon"; "Sabbaths."

See what I'm saying?
God bless,
Joel ><>.

That's in fact how I've always understood it: to be talking primarily about festivals and holidays. Interpreting it as referring to days of the week never occurred to me.

*watches, extremely interested*

*wishes had time to post*

Will be back, once I've looked into this more.

I'm basing my argument off of my Daddy's sermons on this topic.

There are different kinds of work.
Works of Necessity,
Works of Mercy,
and Works of Worship. All these are permissible on the Sabbath.

Works of necessity are things like preparing food, cleaning up after the food, getting yourself and children dressed, fixing hair, brushing teeth, walking and driving to get yourself to church. Stuff like that. Things that simply cannot be put off till the next day, or done ahead of time. Feeding and caring for farm animals falls under this category, too.

Works of mercy can be things like helping someone change a tire, working hard in a hospital or home to care for the sick, even, I think, helping a farmer to bring in his hay crop. (But you should ask, is it really imperative that we do it today? Why can't we do this tomorrow?) Jesus proved this by healing people on the Sabbath.

Then the works of worship. It is work to preach a sermon. (My daddy gets up around three A.M. on Sundays to prepare.) It is work to play an instrument, and to prepare the songs. It is even work to sing. But, we are doing all these things as an act of worship to God. I think we all understand this.

You can go to this page to listen to my daddy's sermon series on this. And ask me questions, and ask for Scripture references, if you want some.

Well I work on Sunday a lot mainly because I believe the Sabbath is on Saturday which is the seventh day of the week.
I don't do any work namely cleaning, cooking buying selling or working on things that I will be selling.
Since I don't write for money I have no problem with typing a bit on the Sabbath.

*agrees about sermon work and singing work *

I knew a professional rugby player who had to play and practise on Sundays, so he had his 'Sunday' on another day of the week. That is where I think that scripture comes in



If you look up the word Day in the Greek it just means a literal 24 hour day



I don't think God cares what day you set aside to have with Him, if you set aside a day with God then that can be your Sabbath. *Shrugs* I do think it's important to rest on one day and have time to spend with God, however I wouldn't mind writing on that day, going to the shops to get bread and milk etc. What I think about the above scripture though, is that each of us do different things, and we shouldn't judge each other as to what day we set aside etc.

*nods* Agree, Lady Elanor.

On that note, there was also one who refused to play on Sunday...

Clicky!
God bless,
Joel ><>.

Oh yes, I have met Euan, he came speaking near us not too long ago. He was a lovely guy. But you see, that doesn't make him wrong but it doesn't make Jason (the guy I know) wrong either. They are both different and that doesn't make either of them wrong, they just have different convictions.

Here's my thought:
"Honor the Sabbath day and keep it holy." One of the Ten Commandments. God is not saying "Honor a day of your choosing and keep it holy." He's saying to honor the Sabbath day.

But remember that with the fulfilling of the law in Christ, many things changed (ie. food regulations, etc.) One of the major changes is that we aren't to judge each other by practices such as the eating of certain foods or keeping of certain days.

But one thing has not changed: the Ten Commandments, which are basic moral law.

(Oh, and, I do not write on Sunday, because I want to think about God on that day, and make the day feel special and different.)

I think after Christ there is a change in which we understand the Ten Commandments. He took them a step forward, not diminishing them, but making them more. Murder is not only a physical act, it is a state of heart etc. Matthew 5 says quite a bit about this. My suggestion is that the Sabbath has taken on added meaning... that while we are free from legalism we still have a duty to set aside time for the Lord. As it has been discussed, Sunday might just be totally out for some people, because of circumstance. 'The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath'. What is important is that we dedicate time specially to God when we can, and serve God with heart, soul and mind every day.

Btw, it has been mentioned but I'll highlight it... the Jewish Sabbath is actually Friday evening to Saturday evening. Today we 'rest' on Sunday because Christ was resurrected on a Sunday, and the Day of Pentecost is a Sunday.


I know what you mean. Its actually the other way around for me... I get very little writing in during the week, so space for writing is pretty special for me.

Not just the Ten Commandments; those are, after all, merely a summary of the Law as a whole. The sacrificial system has passed away---as with Jesus the Christ as perfect high priest and sacrifice those shadows of what was to come are useless---and the early church soon learned that the dietary (and other such) laws were no longer to be required---instead of showing themselves distinct from the nations by following outward regulations and limitations, God's people are now to distinguish themselves by their love---and, above all, we no longer need to fear God's wrath if we fail to keep the law, but instead we trust in Christ's "suffering, death, and merit" for our salvation, but the Law still teaches us the will of God. The difference between legalism and Christian obedience is not (primarily) behavior, but motivation.


I disagree that he increased the (requirements of the) commandments. Instead, he increased our understanding of them, so that we better understand what they really require, and finally grasp our helpless condition: the Law requires that we love God with all our might and every fiber of our being, and our neighbor (every neighbor) as we love ourself, all the time and without fail.

Yes. God could rightfully demand all our time, but he only demands one-seventh of our time be devoted to non-"regular" work, just as he only demands one-tenth of our material income.


(Better to say "... and the Spirit fell on the Church on a Sunday", since "Pentecost" just means "fiftieth".) Yes... though it's not anything special that it's "Friday evening to Saturday evening"; that's just saying that it was "Saturday", since their day ran evening-to-evening, and there's (as we've already seen in this thread) some reasonable disagreement in practice within the Church on this point of which day.

'Zactly, kingjon! That is what I meant.


*nods*


Mmmm, I know... Jewish days still run from evening to morning. Which I believe is highly significant in identifying the creation days as days of twenty-four hours. Besides, in extended family we've had close experience with disagreement on the SDA subject, so I'm acquainted with the arguements and particulars surrounding this topic. My point was to clarify briefly that 'Sabbath' is not interchangable with 'Sunday'.

Yes, that's it. And when we finally realize we cannot keep the commandments, we at last fall to our knees and beg God for mercy and help.

I think that Christ doing all the major early events in the church on Sundays was his way of showing that Sunday was to be the new Christian holy day.

I think that last part sums up my feelings on the matter. While I put most of my writing for free on Smashwords, so I won't be making money off of it, I feel it's important to leave a day aside, as an observed Sabbath, to the Lord.

While the statement that the Sabbath was on Saturday is true, we find that Sunday is a day when it is good to observe the Sabbath, mainly since that is the day on which Christ arose, (the first day of the week). I personally believe we are to observe a Sabbath for the purpose of worship. We can't be thinking about God and our story at the same time.

My humble opinion.

Oh, I believe I can focus on my writing and God. After all, God gave me the talent, and anyone who knows anything about what my book was birthed out of, knows how much I pray over every scene I write. But I respect the fact that others want to keep them seperate.

Something jogged my memory:

If I recall correctly, one of the arguments used (probably by the Puritans) to support the Sunday-as-Sabbath position is that honoring the Sabbath was commanded (among other reasons) to help remind us of the creation, and Christians meet on the first day of the week because it is the day on which our Lord rose from the dead---the beginning of the new creation.

Also, returning to our nominal topic , I think "getting paid" shouldn't be the reason we do or do not write on the Sabbath. After all, preachers get paid (though whether this ought to be a "salary" or a "stipend"---something they earn or something the congregation gives them---is another question). It's a question of whether the work is "regular work" or "holy work". For myself, even though I feel called to write this "story in my head" (I feel like, if I were given a free choice between writing and some other vocation, I'd prefer almost anything else ...), I try to avoid writing on Sunday.

Many people find it relaxing to write, which would not make it strenuous work. And as Cassandra pointed out, writing is not her regular work.

I honestly feel this comes down to a heart issue. I have searched the scriptures on this topic, and no where does it tell me I cannot write. Now, before everyone jumps on me, I encourage you to read my monster post on this subject, very early in this thread. I know my heart is right when I choose to write on Sundays. I also know other people’s hearts are not right when they write on Sunday. It is not a stumbling block for me; it is an expression of worship. That’s not true for everyone.

*echoes Airi*

If you write in response to God's awesome goodness and love, then you worship in the very act of writing.

By the way, an awesome book on this very subject (creativity and worship) is Michael Card's 'Scribbling in the Sand'.

Well said, Airi. I agree!

How times change! I posted on this thread many months ago when I didn't have any established Sabbath/Sunday practices. Lately, however, I've been making an effort to establish Sunday as a day of rest, a complete abstinence from work.

Right now, my definition of work primarily consists of writing and crafts I make to sell. That means I avoid as much writing as possible on Sunday - blog posts, starting new HW threads, work-related emails, etc. (Right now, test-reading and letters/chatty emails are excluded.) I also don't do any crafts I intend to sell (or am planning to publish the pattern/design of). That takes away the bulk of what I spend my time on during the week!

Originally I started doing this mostly to force myself to rest. I write constantly during the week, so if I didn't take breaks, I would run myself dry. Forcing myself to refrain from work on Sunday ensures that I don't run nonstop, which is very beneficial.

However, after doing this for a few weeks, I've discovered that taking Sunday off goes much deeper than having a day of rest. There are many times when I could do "work" and feel perfectly rested, because I enjoy my work. In fact, I'm so obsessed with feeling productive (modified workaholic) that I actually get frustrated or downright bored when I try to take an entire day off from work. Therefore, it becomes very tempting to do "fun" work on Sunday.

Therefore, I'm finding that fully abstaining from work - even if I want to do it - becomes an act of discipline and worship. It takes discipline to hold to a commitment not to work, and it takes organization to plan for a day off. Therefore, I am sacrificing myself, which becomes an act of worship. For me, taking the effort to abstain from work is my way of telling God that He is more important than my work.

Therefore, for the moment I'm continuing with abstinence from writing on Sunday. It is being a blessing by not only forcing myself to rest, which keeps stress levels down, but it helps me discipline and keep writing in its proper place.

I thought y'all might like to hear my experiences.

Yes, the Lord's Day rest has been only a blessing to myself and my family. This break-time God gave us is not meant as a curse, but as a mercy.

Yes. Thank you for sharing them.

I think it is always fascinating how the Lord leads different people to do different things.

Thanks for sharing, Philli.

Indeed, Airianna.

Thanks, all.

I agree!

I write on Sundays, even though I observe the Saturday as Sabbath, I still write on Saturday. I consider my writing God-honoring, and pretty much agree with what Airi said there. It is a matter of personal choice.

And I am a very firm believer in the fact that if you feel called not to write on Sundays, you most certainly should not!

Aye! But never apply our personal callings on the world entire.

Yes, agreed.

The Truth Project (Focus on the Family Christian philosophy) was saying that the Sabbath was made for people; people weren't made for the sabbath. The Sabbath was made so that people didn't have to work seven days a week (although some people still do that). People weren't made to rest the whole day of the Sabbath.
Also, some people think that Sunday is the sabbath and others say that it is Saturday that is the Sabbath. I think you could probably choose any day in the week and make that your Sabbath day of rest. That's just my opinion though.
I agree about that if you don't think it is right for you to write on Sunday you shouldn't, and that if you believe it's okay for you to write on Sunday you should, for God gave you the passion to write (or at least he made you having in his mind that one day you would want to write).
The ultimate commandment is to love the Lord with all your heart and soul and strength and the second is to love your neighbor as yourself, Jesus said in Matthew... somewhere. And after that he says that if you follow these commands, you will find that you are obeying the other commands too!

Good post, Em! I totally agree with you.

I've purposefully set aside Sunday as a day when I don't write (although I often don't write on Saturday either), not out of any sense of legalism (that might have been the origin but isn't anymore), but merely because I thought it was a good thing to do. It gives me more time to spend with my family, and now that our Sunday's have become pretty busy, I wouldn't have much chance to write anyway. But if I was pressed to finish a project by a certain deadline, I wouldn't have any problem with writing on Sunday.