There is no supernatural in my world. It's all natural. Check out my sub-forum on Red World Cobha...

1) I describe it several times. Craft is science, involving different laws of physics than we have. Magic is evil. Power/Tyyr is a tool.
2) Some people may have natural inclination toward wizardry, but no more than say... a tall kid naturally plays basketball. I am pretty sure anyone can learn it.
3) Don't have any supernatural... so this is N/A

1) To be honest, I mostly don't. I also don't usually have miracles and demonic sorcery, either, so for my worlds with magic, there usually isn't something to compare the natural magic with.
2) Depends on the world/story. Pretty frequently it's an inherent ability; some of the time it can be learned.
3) I don't think I have a neutral supernatural magic in any of my stories...

For Murel:

1) In Murel demonic sorcery and miracles are a form of cobha only available to my angel equivalent; however, demonic forces can usually be distinguished from cobha that is used for neutral purposes. The results of demonic cobha are never ideal. The races that come about from demonic influence all have weaknesses and all have lost the full use of one or more of their bodily functions. Elemental magic that has been tainted appears that way -- tainted with the essence of shadow.
2) The use of 'magic' is never an inherent ability. The use of elemental 'magic' is often taught by a teacher (and learning high levels of 'magic' usually requires a teacher), but can be self-taught. Anyone can learn to use it, but, then again just like some people have two left feet, some people have problems learning the use of 'magic'.
3) Neutral supernatural? That would be interesting to see done... Oh yes, the question. Answer: N/A

Being a firm believer in "natural Magic" (I use the term natural ability, since it is not really magic), I obviously write my "magic" as natural ability. It is very easy to do this without it seeming demonic or having it resemble a miracle.

In reality, you treat it no differently than us laughing. Laughter is natural ability. Talking is natural, genetic ability. God gave us the ability to do so. It is in our very DNA. You do the same thing in your world. However, I use natural/genetic ability in my Diegose, not my humans, for personal reasons.

Good thinking. These observations and questions make things better.

If it was like laughter, you couldn't really force someone to do magic, because it would be low quality. But, users would also have to have large amounts of self-restraint to suppress it. The type might also vary on what emotion one is feeling.

I'll stop rambling on that now and go back to studying.

In response to Brendan: Not really. I mean, I have instances where Chalice sneezes and catches something on fire by accident, but you are in control of yourself. If I wanted too, I could suppress laughter. I've done it before.

Think of child discipline. Sometimes Elianna does the funniest things. Bad things, but they were funny. I have to be the adult and tell her it was wrong and bad. I can't laugh, despite the fact that I want to laugh.

Natural/Genetic ability is no different than any other bodily function. You can control it, most of the time.

However, the minute you lose the feel of natural ability, you take on the feel of magic. Which I work hard against.

I love portraying this because there are no arguments for it being unbiblical and your humans cannot be seen as wizards (especially if you are like me and have them as a conduit for the Diegose, therefore they don't have any natural "magical" abilities themselves).

So humans have no natural abilities, but...I'm assuming with some kind of permission or link in place...they can manifest the abilities of the Diegose? Interesing! Do the manifestations only happen at the will of the Diegose, then, but "come through" the human? Or does a human "conduit" have some control over calling up the Diegose's ability? (Also...I could probably find this elsewhere, but are the Diegose angelic beings, or a natural race coexisting with humans?)

*laughs * All very complicated questions. See, the first book in my trilogy is 119,000 words. The second book is 120,000, and I am beginning the third book. The intricacies of all of this are developed over the course of the first two books.

So, simple answers:

The Diegose develop a bond with their Caldarian (human). The Diegose are more dragonish than angelic, but are not dragons. They are the ones with the abilities. It is in their genetic coding. The different types (8) of Diegose have different abilities. These abilities they are able to use with their Caldarian, and the Caldarian is also a conduit.

If any of that makes sense. Sorry, like I said, it's all dealt with in my books. But it is a complicated system I worked out to fit my convictions and views on fantasy.

In my story, I say that a special breed of human that has existed almost since the beginning of time, has been given the ability to unlock an unused portion of their minds which enables them to manipulate the already existing powers of the earth (wind, heat, water, gravity, fire, molecular density). The evil beings use black magic and witchcraft.

I have something similar in a science-fiction project of mine, except they're from a different galaxy and the power is psionic/tele-x instead of elemental.

1. Demonic sorcery or miracles are very rare in any of my fantasy, because the miracles come from Lyrianur only. Demons are Teleporters who turned to follow Malxor. Their power could be demonic, but it's still natural. It's still part of who they are.

2. Neither. 'Magic' does not exist in most of my settings. Harry Carpenter's world is an exception. In that one, it's learned with some talent at it as well, like writing or painting.

1) How do you show that it is different from say Demonic sorcery or miracles?

- The races that possess some sort of magic do so inherently. From birth, they all have ability in a particular skill. This just natural and is viewed much like people view talents in art, math, mechanics, etc.

- Demonic sorcery takes place when a person from a particular race goes beyond the abilities given at birth. If they have an ability not inherent to their race and not given by Yanshuwe [God], they fall into this category. If it takes energy from the world around them or other living things and into themselves, it is demonic.

- Miracles occur completely outside of the character or their control. Since each race only has a certain capacity for a skill, if they do not have that skill, what take place is only logically divine. Also, while each race has a different ability, specific gifts (healing, for example) can only be given by God. This only occurs by God, and cannot be willed with a person's own power, or by demonic powers. Miracles and gifts can also not be replicated by the demonic, so there is no confusion. They can be mocked, but those who know Yanshuwe or have experienced gifts/miracles can discern between the two. Also, Yanshuwe does not give gifts that just increase a person's power. They are used for a purpose and for his glory; not theirs. The gifts he gives are specific. Pretty much just like Scripture in this case.

2) Is it an inherent ability or a skill that can be learned (or maybe a bit of both)?

It is in inherent to the race, but the skills in the area take time and practice to perfect.

3) If you have some sort of neutral supernatural how do you explain that?

Since each race has a different ability, I suppose you could consider that neutral supernatural. Yanshuwe created them with the ability, so it's just standard for the race. If they use the ability for good or for evil, that depends on the character. But in and of themselves, the abilities are not evil.

I like your idea of where they get their power, Cheyenne very interesting. In my stories, a portion of the human race was set apart and given the inherited ability to control any element, like I said, from the time of conception, but they ALSO get the ability to control all the other elements, just not nearly as well. Say, in a situation where twins are forming in a woman's womb. They'd both already have their power, but of course they wouldn't know how to use it, or else (since this actually happens in my story) the power over fire would be very uncomfortable for the mother! Anyway, this happens in my story-twins in a womb, one dies before birth and unwittingly transfers his power to the other. This power in the instance it happens in my story was Healing, while the other child had the power of Fire. So this made him very powerful. And having his twin's power as well also made his other powers stronger. so it is a God-given power, although God isn't directly mentioned. The evil creatures gain their power through the devil; black magic and witchcraft. These are NOT specifically described in my story, don't worry, they're just hinted at. To describe them, I'd need to research them, and I don't want to do that!

That's really interesting and cool. In your story, what separates the evil people from the good people? Like, can an evil person become good or good person become evil? If so, what happens to their powers?

Who, me?

WELL!
Good people can become seduced by the evil power, but of course it doesn't happen often because they're GOOD. In this case, they would keep their natural power and also gain power from the witchcraft.
Evil people (it's weird you mentioned this because I'm writing an evil person betraying his kind right now! Actually the second traitor to the evil. But the it's the one that this applies to), once they betray the darkness and join the good side, they lose their power, which is of course rooted in evil.

1) How do you show that it is different from say Demonic sorcery or miracles?

It is stated repeatedly that the power of the Controllers, from my story The Ending, comes from the Creator of the world.

2) Is it an inherent ability or a skill that can be learned (or maybe a bit of both)

It is inherent, either from birth, or from having it passed on when the previous Controller of that element dies, but there is a learning curve in learning how to keep things in balance.

3) If you have some sort of neutral supernatural how do you explain that?
I don't, so I don't.

What do you mean by neutral supernatural? Someone without any powers?

I am still working out the laws/rules of magic in the world of my WIP. It is somewhat necessary, as part of one of the stories is based off of an enchantment done (and can't really be changed to something non-magic).

Anyways, it is just something you are either born with or not - some people are born with the ability, some aren't. However, it does still have to be learned, and every enchanter or enchantress will inevitably have one area they excel in (such as healing, protection, warfare, etc), and can do other enchantments (general things), but will usually tend to focus their studies toward their Specialty. It does require a great deal of study and practice to really perfect their abilities, just like any other ability.

I am still not sure how to... limit it, I guess. As in, once they have power available, how to make sure it's not completely limitless - since that wouldn't make for a very interesting story. Like... only certain amounts at a time? Perhaps weakens them physically? Perhaps there are different levels of know-how and ability? Thoughts?

Well, in how to limit the power, I tend to think that limiting will generally more have to do with how magic is fueled. If magic is fueled by a general "energy" which many authors use, than magic is limited by the amount of energy that you have to fuel the spell with.

Other options are to have it that spells don't take energy from yourself but gain it from something else, and magical power is instead limited by your knowledge of how you can perform spells (e.g., if spells are released by words, than you're limited by the words you remember, and so on.)

I could give more suggestions, but would probably need to know a bit more specifics about how magic works in your world first.

On a side note, welcome to the forums!

Thanks for the welcome!



Ok... well it is something that some are born with the natural ability to learn, but it must be learned/studied/practiced - perfected, if you will. Sort of similar to a painter who must first learn to perfect his craft before it is able to be used. Generally, they are sent to live with a trainer around 8 years old, and will have reached their "full learning ability" at 16 or 17ish, and beyond that point it is up to them to further their education/abilities through personal study and no longer with the personal trainer of their childhood.



Hmm... interesting thoughts. The enchantments are built off of words, so it is limited to the extent that they remember the correct words. Perhaps I could make another caveat which is the magic is more powerful with more powerful emotion behind it? Or more readily able to be released?

I guess I am also trying to figure out the balance of good/evil... since none of the magic is inherently good or evil, but there are, of course, good and evil enchanters. However, my MC is forced to fight a battle she wants to run from because there is no-one else to pick it up (or something like that )

Well, since you gave the example of a painter, perhaps the limitations of just having "infinite" magic power is that the power is limited by how skilled the magician is. Just like painters can never paint perfect pictures, but need to keep learning to get closer and closer to perfection, maybe magic works the same way. Thinking of emotions, those could work the same way, where you can never become perfectly skilled of putting your emotions in and have to keep learning how to put more and more of it into it...