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 Post subject: Four Things Every Fantasy Writer Should Know
PostPosted: May 29th, 2011, 8:24 pm 
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Four Things Every Fantasy Writer Should Know

First: At a glance, the reader sees fantasy as merely sparkles, bubbles, scales, swords, and magical mayhem. It tickles the imagination, and people like this. Yet despite (and because of) this attraction, the fantasy, more than any genre, easily drifts into the absurd and frivolous. In the ladder of esteemed literature, fantasy is on a low rung. It is among the most difficult to get right. To avoid getting it wrong, allow me to expose two dangers:

Don't write fantasy...
1. ...because it's fun.
Granted, fantasy is fun, and unlike sci-fi, it is aesthetically pleasing (rather than a steel slab entryway that no one needs to touch because it opens when you advance, you get a hand-crafted mahogany door with a cool, smooth, brass handle -- aesthetic). It's a world chop full of romance, risk, and other stuff that ends up being very expensive to replicate in film. However, doing it because it's fun and it being fun are two different things. Make sure your goal is not to entertain. That is never, ever, ever, ever the goal. You can ask yourself, "My story is not thrilling enough! Not sad enough! Not emotional enough!" If this is your problem, its not. The problem is deeper. We'll get back to this later.
2. ...because it's popular.
If you intend to make a living off of your writing, that's your business. But be warned you will be pressured to produce less-than-what-it-could-be work. I'm not saying you should be a starving artist. What I am saying is that you should write because you have something to say, not because you have to say something.

Second: fantasy as a story-form is incredibly powerful. Often without being consciously aware, the reader is being influenced by underlying ideals and worldviews that the author, also perhaps unconsciously (but only when the writing is mediocre), ingrained into his world. This is all a story is: what better or more effective way to showcase a worldview than to model a world after it?

It is the job of academic works and textbooks to confront beliefs. They compartmentalize them, engage them in inquiry, debate, and, if nothing else, openness (just get the idea taught!). However, the story only suggests and implies ideas. It shows how they work.

Let me illustrate. If ideas were cars, textbooks put them in a room to be studied, taken apart, put back together, compared with other cars, and so on. A story actually puts them on the road and watches them speed away, crash, burn, take shortcuts, lose tires, refuel, get pulled over, and so on. A story is essentially a reflection of life itself. It's more than nuts and bolts. It's the energy and motion of it.

Third: what is a story? If you were to ask the typical literature professor, they would proceed to give a long list of required elements: theme, plot, characters, and so on. Put them together, and voila, a tale! But a book has no recipe. Though studying literature is helpful - and learning about theme, plot, and characters is all good and well - it is only good when the story is already in place. You can't depend on them to make the story, because they won't. So what is a story?

This is important. We must understand that storytelling is actually a field of study. It's a science; an art; an occupation; a realm of inquiry, as much as any other job. Any specialist of a field will take the subject of his occupation and will examine it on all angles, he will write about it, teach about it, immerse himself in the topic, and learn all he can. Ask a biologist what he studies. The answer is organic life. Ask an astronomer what he studies. It is the stars. Ask a theologian what he studies. It is the scriptures.

What does the storyteller study?

Life!

Which part of life?

When you come down to the bottom line of the bottom line from where a tale springs, a story is simply the narration following the relationship between good and evil.

That's it. A story is nothing else. Think about it. Every story has a villain and a hero, and the story itself is merely a narrative on how they interact. This is seen in every genre. Look at romance, for instance. Let's pick Pride and Prejudice (yes, I've read it! And every guy reading this should go pick it up right now and read it too!). The hero is clearly Elizabeth, and the villain is the scandalous Mr. Darcy.

Their interactions start out pretty sour, but eventually he charms her over and the story ends. Yawn. But you see? Even the romance features a conflict, and conflict only emerges between the right and wrong.

There are four types of foes the hero can encounter. All of these are fairly straightforward.
1. Hero vs. Society
Most often, the society is portrayed as a certain race, creed, nationality, family, or mob out to get the hero (examples: The Lord of the Rings).
2. Hero vs. Environment
Whether storms or strange new lands, the environment is a great charm for survival tales and odysseys (example: Phantastes).
3. Hero vs. Self
This could be the hero struggling with past, present, or future decisions or experiences. Or it could be his struggle to overcome personal shortcomings (example: name it).
4. Hero vs. Idea
This is a very strong form of storytelling, and is in nearly every good story ever told. The idea is usually manifested in a single individual: like a Sauron, Joker, or Sith Lord. This chap is the epitome of evil. The idea is a single foe whom the hero can directly engage with. This kind of foe usually isn't the one the hero meets along the road of life - often it's a personal acquaintance gone horribly wrong (at least, the best are).

In addition to this, there are four ways which the hero can engage with the enemy.
1. Toleration
This is when the hero simply puts up with the bad-guy. You think "Wait, where's the conflict?" Well, the truth is this form of engagement is only temporary, and if it continues it means the bad-guy won. In stories as in real life, peace is won through victory, not compromise.
2. Separation
This is when the hero either removes himself from the enemies reach or vice versa. Either way, a wall of separation is built. This is "The world ain't big 'nuff fer the both of us" sort of ideology. Either the hero leaves or the villain does.
3. Reformation
This is when the hero turns the bad-guy into a good-guy. This is what romances do.
4. Termination
Ah, my favorite! And many peoples', apparently, because it is the most common. One of the perks of fantasy is the ease with which we can distinguish the villains from the heroes. People like this. We like sharp lines and clear distinctions (nasty orcs vs. fair elves). Good versus evil is laudably obvious in fantasy. This makes your job both easy and challenging, because all the stories usually end the same way: the foe(s) gets vanquished (because it's not like orcs can be turned into elves, and if you can't reform 'em, kill 'em or get rid of 'em). But even these limitations are aesthetically pleasing to the morally conscious soul.

Fourth: during this time I've mentioned how easily a fantasy can slip into the realm of the ridiculous; a nasty place to be, doubtless aggravating for the writer and boring to the reader once he's had enough of it. There is only one sure way to avoid this, and I think this is the heartbeat of our vocation as fantasy writers.

But first, backstory!

I don't cry. Ever. Especially for . Unless we're singing the third verse of "It Is Well With My Soul" in church, or I'm reading the final chapter of Job, or I'm watching that scene from the movie "To End All Wars" where Dusty dies, I don't usually cry. Even in these cases, my eyes moisten a bit. I seldom shed a tear, and I certainly don't bawl. If you were paying attention, you'd notice all of the things that make me cry are based on real stories (the history behind the writing of "It Is Well With My Soul" is what really breaks my heart, not the song itself; the final chapter of Job is a happy ending to perhaps the greatest tragedy in history, second only to Christ's death; and the movie "To End All Wars" is, of course, a true story based on a book written by a WWII POW). That's because the true story has inherent superiority over the fictional story. It naturally makes a bigger impact, propelling themes farther. It naturally has more gravity.

Only one fictional story ever made me cry: The Merry Adventures of Robin Hood, by Howard Pyle. But I was ten years old. Give me a break.

But that all changed recently while I was watching a fictional television show. The story included magical/supernatural elements. It was about a man losing his wife in childbirth. The story tore me apart. I found myself weeping (being a guy, this takes some guts to admit). Finally I stepped back and asked myself "What is wrong with you? You're actually caring for made-up characters?"

That's when it hit me. Now comes the long-anticipated phrase: the heartbeat of our vocation as fantasy writers is that ...there is no such thing as a made-up story!

Every character, his every struggle, his every contact, everything he does and doesn't do is a direct reflection of real life. Someone once said every story is about it's author. This is true. The dragons you write about are just manifestations of the "dragons" you fight every day. I discovered I was so broken up about this fictional story and its characters because it played with a reality that I greatly valued. It played so close to my true fears and hopes (golly, that sounds corny). Now for some applications.

1. If your story starts to reel into the absurd and impractical, draw back to this key phrase. If you are out merely for the fun or popularity of it, then you risk losing your audience. You could write about such phenomenal scenarios that the reader thinks, "Golly, that's awfully spectacular. But this has nothing to do with me."
2. It's true that every story is about its author. But by the same token, every story is about its reader too. The war between good and evil is universal to all humanity.
3. Remember that your story has a way of presenting your worldview in a pragmatic and implied sense. What you write has extraordinary persuasive power. If executed rightly, the reader, though he could be an atheist, will unconsciously start to think and view the world like a Christian just by reading about your "made up" one. This is a heavy responsibility. You will be held accountable. Dare you risk write untruths?
4. There is no such thing as a made-up story. Everything you write is drawn from reality. Miscommunicate, and you risk scewing the readers view of the real world, leading to escapism and delusion. A bad story is a crime, plain and simple.
5. This also helps you learn what you value. When reading a book or watching a movie, the parts that evoke the strongest emotional reactions are typically those that present themes you value most; that event that "meets you where you are"; that hits directly with your beliefs. What can we learn from this? Well, address in your story those things which people value. My generation values sex and freedom. So my story is designed to confront those two "virtues" and give them their proper lighting from biblical flames. This will hopefully strike chords with my reader. The story will be about him. And that makes the story real.

Deo Volente,
Pavalini

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Last edited by Pavalini on September 13th, 2011, 8:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Four Things Every Fantasy Writer Should Know
PostPosted: May 30th, 2011, 12:46 am 
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Pavalini wrote:
Look at romance, for instance. Let's pick Pride and Prejudice (yes, I've read it! And every guy reading this should go pick it up right now and read it too!). The hero is clearly Elizabeth, and the villain is...

...the scandalous Mr. Darcy!


No, no, no, no, no.... the villain is Mr. Wickham! Mr. Darcy ties with Lizzie as the hero. :D

Pavalini wrote:
That's when it hit me. Now comes the long-anticipated phrase: the heartbeat of our vocation as fantasy writers is that...

*drumroll...

...there is no such thing as a made-up story!

There is no such thing as a made-up story. Everything you write is drawn from reality. Miscommunicate, and you risk skewing the readers view of the real world, leading to escapism and delusion.


So true. That's why I see stories drinking coffee in cafes and weeping on hockey fields...

Pavalini wrote:
Every character, his every struggle, his every contact, everything he does and doesn't do is a direct reflection of real life. Someone once said every story is about its author. This is true. The dragons you write about are just manifestations of the "dragons" you fight every day. I discovered I was so broken up about this fictional story and its characters because it played with a reality that I greatly valued. It played so close to my true fears and hopes (golly, that sounds corny). Now for some applications.


And isn't a story a beautiful place to put the things we've learned?

Pavalini wrote:
Remember that your story has a way of presenting your worldview in a pragmatic and implied sense. What you write has extraordinary persuasive power. If executed rightly, the reader, though he could be an atheist, will unconsciously start to think and view the world like a Christian just by reading about your "made up" one. This is a heavy responsibility. You will be held accountable. Dare you risk to write untruths?


Uh, uh.

Have a question. While fantasy has helped me, as a Christian, learn more about God, I have never heard of an atheist being converted by fantasy--only angered by the allusions. ??? My information hasn't been extensive, but would like some proof t'other way. ;) :)

Pavalini wrote:
Deo Volente,
Pavalini


Latin? :)

Loved your post!

Cassandra

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 Post subject: Re: Four Things Every Fantasy Writer Should Know
PostPosted: May 30th, 2011, 3:47 am 
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Brilliant post. I am bookmarking this for future reference. Thank you for taking the time to write it down, Pavalini! :D

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 Post subject: Re: Four Things Every Fantasy Writer Should Know
PostPosted: May 30th, 2011, 8:39 am 
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Cassandra wrote:
Pavalini wrote:
Remember that your story has a way of presenting your worldview in a pragmatic and implied sense. What you write has extraordinary persuasive power. If executed rightly, the reader, though he could be an atheist, will unconsciously start to think and view the world like a Christian just by reading about your "made up" one. This is a heavy responsibility. You will be held accountable. Dare you risk to write untruths?


Uh, uh.

Have a question. While fantasy has helped me, as a Christian, learn more about God, I have never heard of an atheist being converted by fantasy--only angered by the allusions. ??? My information hasn't been extensive, but would like some proof t'other way. ;) :) Cassandra


Good question. Remember that a story does not confront ideas and beliefs. It merely shows how they would work, and the reader is left to guess which idea/belief the author is talking about. You never actually use the word "Christianity" in your story, however, at least one of your characters views his "made-up" world like a "Christian." That perspective transfers to the reader, who naturally begins to view the world the same way. However, you are correct: the title "Christian" is lost to him. All he has are some assumptions; a point-of-view. This will not save him. But it can help.

On the other hand, those who are actually struggling with salvation or just entering into it can benefit immensely from a simple point-of-view. There was an American atheist who was being pulled toward Christ, but resisted. He later contacted C.S. Lewis and said, "I did not understand the crucifixion of Christ until I read The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe." That little fantasy book changed his life. Your writing can shape souls - have no doubt about it.

Cassandra wrote:
Pavalini wrote:
Deo Volente,
Pavalini


Latin? :) Cassandra


Yep. It means "God willing." It's the phrase that follows my every supplication.

Deo Volente,
Pavalini

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 Post subject: Re: Four Things Every Fantasy Writer Should Know
PostPosted: May 30th, 2011, 10:21 am 
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Thank you! I loved it. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Four Things Every Fantasy Writer Should Know
PostPosted: May 30th, 2011, 11:47 am 
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Pavalini wrote:


Granted, fantasy is fun, and unlike sci-fi, it is aesthetically pleasing.


Sci-fi is aesthetically pleasing.

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 Post subject: Re: Four Things Every Fantasy Writer Should Know
PostPosted: May 30th, 2011, 12:03 pm 
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Varon wrote:
Pavalini wrote:


Granted, fantasy is fun, and unlike sci-fi, it is aesthetically pleasing.


Sci-fi is aesthetically pleasing.


Meh...

The key difference between science fiction and fantasy is the use of romanticism. By romanticism, I mean knights, chivalry, code of honor...that sort of thing. As a rule, science fiction does not have romanticism. Some writers try to overcome this exception (Star Wars), but in the end romanticism is far more suitable to the fantastic realm.

Romanticism also glorifies the beautiful (or aesthetic), and fantasy glorifies the romantic. Thus, fantasy is inherently aesthetically pleasing, whereas the realm of science fiction is only aesthetically pleasing when it wants to be.

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 Post subject: Re: Four Things Every Fantasy Writer Should Know
PostPosted: May 30th, 2011, 3:14 pm 
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True, but even hard SF can be that way.

There's also some pretty gritty fantasy out there.

The rest I agree with though.

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 Post subject: Re: Four Things Every Fantasy Writer Should Know
PostPosted: May 30th, 2011, 5:27 pm 
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Pavalini wrote:
Cassandra wrote:
Have a question. While fantasy has helped me, as a Christian, learn more about God, I have never heard of an atheist being converted by fantasy--only angered by the allusions. ??? My information hasn't been extensive, but would like some proof t'other way.


Good question. Remember that a story does not confront ideas and beliefs. It merely shows how they would work, and the reader is left to guess which idea/belief the author is talking about. You never actually use the word "Christianity" in your story, however, at least one of your characters views his "made-up" world like a "Christian." That perspective transfers to the reader, who naturally begins to view the world the same way. However, you are correct: the title "Christian" is lost to him. All he has are some assumptions; a point-of-view. This will not save him. But it can help.

On the other hand, those who are actually struggling with salvation or just entering into it can benefit immensely from a simple point-of-view. There was an American atheist who was being pulled toward Christ, but resisted. He later contacted C.S. Lewis and said, "I did not understand the crucifixion of Christ until I read The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe." That little fantasy book changed his life. Your writing can shape souls - have no doubt about it.


Have no doubt at all. :) I write strongly in the Christian viewpoint whatever the setting. My question refers more to the fantasy part, for many other reasons that I don't have time to explain just now. Just came of some recent reflections that are very random, very interesting, very controversial, and very off-topic... eventually I'll get around to writing essays on 'em so I can figure out what I think. :P ;)

Cassandra wrote:
Pavalini wrote:
Deo Volente,
Pavalini


Latin?


Pavalini wrote:
Yep. It means "God willing." It's the phrase that follows my every supplication.

Deo Volente,
Pavalini


Haven't come across that one in my Latin course yet!

Vide. ;)
Cassandra

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 Post subject: Re: Four Things Every Fantasy Writer Should Know
PostPosted: May 30th, 2011, 5:55 pm 
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Interesting post, Pavalini!

Something I'd like to note - the flip side is that a lot of young writers take their work too seriously.

I used to do this - think my book was going to change the world and whatnot. I tried to make my stories perfect theologically. Nothing out of place, no implications that could be possibly extrapolated, however slimly.

And that killed my stories. They were no longer my stories, they were just thinly veiled sermons. I couldn't draft anymore because I was afraid I'd mess up and say something that would smirch the name of Christianity forever.

It's been a long climb back from there. Painful, hard, slow. Still have trouble a lot of days.

But now I don't worry so much -- I trust myself a tiny bit more not to write dumb stuff, and I trust that God will make sure that I find things that I do write that need edited out. It's not such a big deal to make my work perfect anymore as it is just to work and do my best. It's also not such a big deal to be the next Narnia in Christian fantasy... b/c the world can only take so much brilliance. XD

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 Post subject: Re: Four Things Every Fantasy Writer Should Know
PostPosted: May 30th, 2011, 6:54 pm 
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An interesting and thought-provoking post.

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 Post subject: Re: Four Things Every Fantasy Writer Should Know
PostPosted: June 4th, 2011, 1:45 pm 
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Mr. P, would you be willing to turn this post into a blog post for the HW blog?

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Be careful of your thoughts; guard your mind, for your thoughts become words. Be guarded when you speak, for your words turn into action. Watch what you do, for your actions will become habits. Be wary of your habits, for they become your character. Pray over your character; strive to mold it to the image of Christ, because your character will shape your destiny.

Ideas can germinate from the smallest seeds. Collect those seeds, and let them grow in the back of your mind. You may be surprised by what finally blooms.

When God takes something from your grasp, he's not punishing you. Instead, He’s opening your hands to receive something better. The will of God will never take you where the Grace of God will not protect you.

Works in progress:

The Diegosian Mark, 115,600 words (Preparing for Publication)
The Diegosian Rider, 121,400 words (Finished)
The Diegosian Warrior, 15,000 (In Progress)


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 Post subject: Re: Four Things Every Fantasy Writer Should Know
PostPosted: June 5th, 2011, 12:47 pm 
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Airianna Valenshia,

Certainly. Let me do a bit of editing first. Then I'd need some direction on how to put it on the blog.

Deo Volente,
Pavalini

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 Post subject: Re: Four Things Every Fantasy Writer Should Know
PostPosted: June 5th, 2011, 12:58 pm 
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PM me when you have it read, and I'll fill you in on the Blog System. *grins happily as she has another blog submission *

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Airianna Valenshia

The Rainbow in the Storm- My Blog

Be careful of your thoughts; guard your mind, for your thoughts become words. Be guarded when you speak, for your words turn into action. Watch what you do, for your actions will become habits. Be wary of your habits, for they become your character. Pray over your character; strive to mold it to the image of Christ, because your character will shape your destiny.

Ideas can germinate from the smallest seeds. Collect those seeds, and let them grow in the back of your mind. You may be surprised by what finally blooms.

When God takes something from your grasp, he's not punishing you. Instead, He’s opening your hands to receive something better. The will of God will never take you where the Grace of God will not protect you.

Works in progress:

The Diegosian Mark, 115,600 words (Preparing for Publication)
The Diegosian Rider, 121,400 words (Finished)
The Diegosian Warrior, 15,000 (In Progress)


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 Post subject: Re: Four Things Every Fantasy Writer Should Know
PostPosted: August 12th, 2011, 4:14 pm 
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That was a really good read, Mr. Pavalini. Thank you. I especially appreciated the part about how the reader takes on the main character's worldview, and the story makes him understand it. It made me think. Which is always good.

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 Post subject: Re: Four Things Every Fantasy Writer Should Know
PostPosted: August 12th, 2011, 5:48 pm 
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Pavalini, I read this and I was going to suggest you make it into a blog post - Airi beat me to the punch, though :P Great job!

eru

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 Post subject: Re: Four Things Every Fantasy Writer Should Know
PostPosted: August 16th, 2011, 12:43 pm 
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*grins * It's actually already been featured, I think. Or it is on the schedule already. :D It was an excellent post!

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Airianna Valenshia

The Rainbow in the Storm- My Blog

Be careful of your thoughts; guard your mind, for your thoughts become words. Be guarded when you speak, for your words turn into action. Watch what you do, for your actions will become habits. Be wary of your habits, for they become your character. Pray over your character; strive to mold it to the image of Christ, because your character will shape your destiny.

Ideas can germinate from the smallest seeds. Collect those seeds, and let them grow in the back of your mind. You may be surprised by what finally blooms.

When God takes something from your grasp, he's not punishing you. Instead, He’s opening your hands to receive something better. The will of God will never take you where the Grace of God will not protect you.

Works in progress:

The Diegosian Mark, 115,600 words (Preparing for Publication)
The Diegosian Rider, 121,400 words (Finished)
The Diegosian Warrior, 15,000 (In Progress)


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 Post subject: Re: Four Things Every Fantasy Writer Should Know
PostPosted: August 18th, 2011, 5:27 am 
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*really should read everything the blog comes out with* :P Ignore me, then. :blush:

eru

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 Post subject: Re: Four Things Every Fantasy Writer Should Know
PostPosted: August 22nd, 2011, 4:21 pm 
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*smiles * You should. We have some great posts.

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Airianna Valenshia

The Rainbow in the Storm- My Blog

Be careful of your thoughts; guard your mind, for your thoughts become words. Be guarded when you speak, for your words turn into action. Watch what you do, for your actions will become habits. Be wary of your habits, for they become your character. Pray over your character; strive to mold it to the image of Christ, because your character will shape your destiny.

Ideas can germinate from the smallest seeds. Collect those seeds, and let them grow in the back of your mind. You may be surprised by what finally blooms.

When God takes something from your grasp, he's not punishing you. Instead, He’s opening your hands to receive something better. The will of God will never take you where the Grace of God will not protect you.

Works in progress:

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The Diegosian Rider, 121,400 words (Finished)
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 Post subject: Re: Four Things Every Fantasy Writer Should Know
PostPosted: August 23rd, 2011, 6:25 am 
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I know. And I want to read them! :P *mumbles about time*

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 Post subject: Re: Four Things Every Fantasy Writer Should Know
PostPosted: August 23rd, 2011, 6:30 am 
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I hear ya, Eru. :P

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 Post subject: Re: Four Things Every Fantasy Writer Should Know
PostPosted: September 12th, 2011, 10:55 am 
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Pavilini, you've written a thoughtful post! I posted a reply at the other place this was posted, and Airianna and Bethany sent me here.

Some thoughts:

At first I merely wanted to talk back to you, for example, correct your perception of Mr. Darcy as the villain of Pride and Prejudice, when both he and Elizabeth Bennet were equally villainous in the pride and prejudice that for a time kept them apart. (Cassandra, for some reason I totally forgot about the notorious Mr. Wickham!)

Then, I perceived your ardent concern for good writing, great writing that would help others. So, I find that I'm interested in learning from your views very much. I agree with your statement that to write poor fiction can be a crime that leads to the injury of the reader, morally and spiritually. (Melody, you're right that we can't be perfect but just try our best theologically. It's all grace whatever we do in the Lord!)

This was a very intriguing post and there's tons to discuss in it.

For example, C.S. Lewis was helped to trust in Jesus Christ through discussions with Tolkien about universal myths.

And, for example this:

Pavalini wrote:
Make sure your goal is not to entertain. That is never, ever, ever, ever the goal.


Well, no, entertainment is our first and primary goal. However, we entertain with truth and the attractiveness of wisdom, whether we're overtly Christian in our writings or not.

So glad this is scheduled for the blog (which I must begin reading... forgive me, all...), and that you got responses to this post!

In His joy,
Maria

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 Post subject: Re: Four Things Every Fantasy Writer Should Know
PostPosted: September 13th, 2011, 10:02 am 
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Lady Pilgrim,

Thanks for your posts. I'll address them now.

Lady Pilgrim wrote:
At first I merely wanted to talk back to you, for example, correct your perception of Mr. Darcy as the villain of Pride and Prejudice, when both he and Elizabeth Bennet were equally villainous in the pride and prejudice that for a time kept them apart.


How right you are! But remember, by virtue of being the protagonist, Elizabeth Bennet is by default the hero. Also, if you look back at my post I list a good number of conflicts a story could feature: what you call the "villainy" of Elizabeth Bennet is really the "Hero vs. Self conflict." Her relationship with Mr. Darcy, however, is "Hero vs. Idea," making him the supervillain that she can particularly engage with (no pun intended).

Lady Pilgrim wrote:

Pavalini wrote:
Make sure your goal is not to entertain. That is never, ever, ever, ever the goal.


Well, no, entertainment is our first and primary goal. However, we entertain with truth and the attractiveness of wisdom, whether we're overtly Christian in our writings or not.


I think we actually agree here. Only I'd say that truth is itself entertaining - we don't need to make it so: it does it without our help (when accurately delivered, that is). Humans are naturally attracted to purity, wisdom, and truth - we don't need to make it attractive. When we try to make it so, we water it down, cheapen it, and it actually becomes less entertaining. The goal then is not to entertain, but to declare truth.

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Pavalini

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 Post subject: Re: Four Things Every Fantasy Writer Should Know
PostPosted: September 15th, 2011, 5:27 pm 
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Pavilini, thank you for responding.

You said:

Pavalini wrote:
Humans are naturally attracted to purity, wisdom, and truth - we don't need to make it attractive.


This contradicts the apostle Paul in Romans 3, where he quoted from the Old Testament to show the necessity of God to show mercy on us sinners:

As it is written: "There is none righteous, no, not one;
There is none who understands; There is none who seeks after God.
They have all turned aside; They have together become unprofitable; There is none who does good, no, not one."
(NKJV)

I would ask you, if we're naturally attracted to everything good, why do we fall short constantly?

I realize that soon your original post will become a blog entry, but since this response to me appeared in the Theology Forum, I've responded to you here.

In His joy,

Maria

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 Post subject: Re: Four Things Every Fantasy Writer Should Know
PostPosted: October 12th, 2011, 8:33 am 
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Quote:
Pavalini wrote:
Remember that your story has a way of presenting your worldview in a pragmatic and implied sense. What you write has extraordinary persuasive power. If executed rightly, the reader, though he could be an atheist, will unconsciously start to think and view the world like a Christian just by reading about your "made up" one. This is a heavy responsibility. You will be held accountable. Dare you risk to write untruths?


This is my disagreement. Dare I risk untruths? Yes I do. I will write lies in my story world. Why? One because it makes it more reality based and grounded, and I think a fantasy that can achieve on some level a groundedness instead of an airiness is far more succesful. More visceral I guess. Second reason, Scripture contains untruths: Job's friends' speeches are for the most part false and human. Why would it be put in there if it is wrong? Because it is shown to be such and that is reality.

Also, if our goal is to write to make people become Christians then I believe our goals are misplaced. Admittedly I write to make people think but I do not write exclusively as if my outlook if for someone to be saved or think about Christianity directly, partly why I avoid allegory...

Quote:
Lady Pilgrim wrote:

Pavalini wrote:
Make sure your goal is not to entertain. That is never, ever, ever, ever the goal.

Well, no, entertainment is our first and primary goal. However, we entertain with truth and the attractiveness of wisdom, whether we're overtly Christian in our writings or not.

I think we actually agree here. Only I'd say that truth is itself entertaining - we don't need to make it so: it does it without our help (when accurately delivered, that is). Humans are naturally attracted to purity, wisdom, and truth - we don't need to make it attractive. When we try to make it so, we water it down, cheapen it, and it actually becomes less entertaining. The goal then is not to entertain, but to declare truth.


I totally agree we need to declare truth but not that truth itself is entertaining... look at film: sex and violence, in an inappropriate context, entertains and reaches out and hits people but truth even in a well presented form such as Courageous will not since Romans 1 says we don't care. We care about selfish pursuit. So declare truth but entertainment for its own sake is not bad.

I have no clue if what I have said makes a bit of sense. I hope it does. It does to me....:P


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 Post subject: Re: Four Things Every Fantasy Writer Should Know
PostPosted: October 12th, 2011, 10:43 am 
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Yes, you do make sense, Will Treaty! :)

I agree that fantasy should be reality based, give a true picture of us, or creatures we make, in our made-up worlds. It's true too, that Job's friends spoke what wasn't true about the Lord, and that that is in the Bible. The Bible is reality based--as we know and affirm! The groundedness of the Bible should be our benchmark on how to write and what we can include.

God's Word exposes our selfishness--yes, I agree that that is a true statement about the sinful nature of us humans. I was afraid to say, Pavalini my friend :) , that it's false to say that people are naturally attracted to purity, goodness, etc. This is partly because, though I'm old enough to be a granny, I'm a woman and avoid correcting men of any age on theological issues.

This has been a really good discussion. Hope I've added something to it.


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 Post subject: Re: Four Things Every Fantasy Writer Should Know
PostPosted: October 13th, 2011, 10:19 am 
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Quote:
Admittedly I write to make people think but I do not write exclusively as if my outlook if for someone to be saved or think about Christianity directly, partly why I avoid allegory...


I approach fantasy similarly, Will.

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Be careful of your thoughts; guard your mind, for your thoughts become words. Be guarded when you speak, for your words turn into action. Watch what you do, for your actions will become habits. Be wary of your habits, for they become your character. Pray over your character; strive to mold it to the image of Christ, because your character will shape your destiny.

Ideas can germinate from the smallest seeds. Collect those seeds, and let them grow in the back of your mind. You may be surprised by what finally blooms.

When God takes something from your grasp, he's not punishing you. Instead, He’s opening your hands to receive something better. The will of God will never take you where the Grace of God will not protect you.

Works in progress:

The Diegosian Mark, 115,600 words (Preparing for Publication)
The Diegosian Rider, 121,400 words (Finished)
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 Post subject: Re: Four Things Every Fantasy Writer Should Know
PostPosted: October 17th, 2011, 5:31 pm 
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Hmm... I agree with both sides of this. Yes, as humans our sinful desires naturally wish to rule us. However, every person still identifies with, and is drawn to a hero. Heroes who are upright, just, kind, compassionate, strong, beautiful/handsome, have always appealed to humans. It is in our nature to look up to someone, or something. The desire to worship has been put in us by God for His glory.

So although evil things try to draw our sinful desires, we still love and appreciate a righteous hero.

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