Greetings,

One of my favorite cities in Tskarnor is Dar Gened.

It is situated on the northern side of the northern mountains in the province of Karna. These mountains are very high and precipitous, with the high slopes predominantly composed of a dark volcanic rock similar to obsidian.

It was built by the Xzantarian dynasty immediately following the reconquering of the Karnian mountains in the final stage of the 700 year war. It was built as a training center for private, civilian orders of knighthood, from which lords, military officers, and elite soldier units (the Heroes, aka Afcuroi) could be recruited for the imperial forces. The concept was for people to send their sons there to train in arms and become members of the several orders of knighthood based there, as a means for them to have a possible future in the highest services possible in the empire.

As such, it was built as a fortress city. And in the manner of all the old cities from that period, was completely indomitable.

To construct it, they channeled a high river from its course, leaving its icy, solid stone bed exposed right next to where it had rocketed off a waterfall over a cliff that ended several thousand feet below, only to launch off again over more cascades. They hollowed the foundations of the city into the bones of the mountain itself, and then melded the exterior walls with it, creating an impenetrable shell. They then allowed the river to follow its course again, surrounding the city by its deadly coils.

The interior of the city has multiple levels, vertically and concentrically. It has under levels and upper levels and even multiple ground levels. It is a three dimensional labyrinth.

In its prime, it housed over a dozen independent orders of knighthood, several dozen specialized training schools (read: dojos), and several hundred independent masters in exotic arts from around the globe who come there to teach.

It survived the usurpation of the Xzantarian line by Dëcë Cälorian, although the Cälorian dynasty did not make any effort to preserve the culture of honor that had marked the rise of Dar Gened, and instead interested itself with regulating and seeking to gain control over the hitherto free orders of knighthood there.

The rule of order collapsed in Dar Gened due to this new system of administration, and it became a death trap. Law became extremely lax in matters like murder and theft, and extremely tight in such areas as insurrection and curfew. Instead of an atmosphere of mentorly teaching, it became a matter of life and death, survival of the fittest. Those who went there, did so to win or die. A last resort.

Even so, it flourished, though not with its former grandeur. The schools took to using sports to help train their students in an effort to alleviate the deaths, but the arenas became like the coliseum: no law in the games, so that even games that were similar to football became life and death matters.

Okay I better stop talking... I can go on forever about Dar Gened (and it isn't the only city I have developed like this).

What I want is help in mapping its city plan. I want floor plans and street maps and architectural drawings, etc. Just I am bad at drawing ('cept for geographical maps). I have cultural essences, traditions, insignias, concepts, architectural designs, and stuff like that, so I can help you guys help me out here, if you want to jump in.

I'll help, even though I'm not that good at drawing.

I can do floorplans, but I've never tried doing them for someone else's ideas.

It would be a fun experiment.

Well, I'm willing to try it, if you have a small building to start with and you don't mind waiting until at least Sunday.

Well I need a few generic shop floorplans (for all the tradesmen on the streets, which are very narrow).

Oh no deadlines.

Those shouldn't be to hard. How many floors?

The vendors live and sleep in the same shop as they sell. I expect them to be provided with a workshop area, a front room for them to present and sell their services, a storage room in back, and a personal quarters. So, two floors, each divided into two rooms: front and back. The upper story would be more of a loft, though, if that makes sense.

That makes sense.

OK, so I'm assuming you want big windows in the front of the shop. Do you want any in the storage room? Where do you want the doors? Do you want a door going out of the storage room into a back alley or something of that sort? Do you want the stairs in the shop or the storage room? Do you want windows upstairs?

Or do you just want me to make something up?

I can try drawing the outside of the building as well, if you would like. What kind of architecture are you thinking of?

Only windows on the lower level in the front. The back would be completely closed off: the only doors are in the front (and ones in the sides, so that a particularly affluent vendor can purchase and use multiple units in tangent).

The structure and architecture would be a combination of Dutch and Japanese, with no stone, only wood, with heavy beams with strong shutters and heavily built frames.

I would like that, if you would. If you do a sketch, I can scribble on it and give more specific descriptions.

I'll stick to floor plans, I don't even know what Dutch architecture looks like.

Haha, alright.

OK, I'll see what I can do. I'll do the floorplan definitely, and then see about the sketch.

Two more questions. Do you want each shop to be able to connect to both the shops around it, or just one? Do you want me to put in furniture placement, or to just do blank rooms?

Thanks!

Both. Example furniture would be nice.

This sounds fascinating. I'm looking forward to seeing any concept art y'all produce.

I'd like to see what you all come up with as well.

Well, I had the floorplans done, and the sketch of the outside almost done. Then I realized I made a major mistake. So now I have to fix the outside, and redo the upper floor's floorplan. It's going to be a couple more weeks. Sorry!

* chuckles * No problem, I have done the same kinds of things before.

OK, I guess I lied. It took me less time than I thought it would to fix it, so it's done!






OK, this one needs a little bit of explanation. I ended up drawing it as though it was one store by itself. To make a row of stores, just imagine it longer, and imagine the roof having a roofline instead of a point. Also, I was going to draw panes in the windows, but my artist mother suggested that I should leave it, since window panes are a perspective pain in the neck.

Let me know if you have questions, complaints, concerns.......

Awesome! Thank you. It makes sense. I can see it in my mind's eye. Those are a great help.

Anyone up for something a bit more complex?

You're welcome.

Sure. What do you have in mind?

Maps of the layout of the city?

Sure!

Alright. We will need to fractal it: go from basic to more complex. It is set against a high, smooth cliff, and against the river, over which a narrow bridge runs. It has a central High Building for the city guard and the officials who run it. It also has the buildings for the great schools, and room made for arenas and extended obstacle courses. Mingled in with all that are the buildings for the populace. Over time, levels are added vertically, and buildings are torn down and new ones built. New streets laid over the mess of old ones, etc.

So it is quite complex. Any ideas?

The river is on two sides of the city, right? There's the cliff at the back, and then the river to the right and left?

My first thought was to make it hexagon shaped. The hexagon shaped High Building would be in the very centre. It would then be surrounded by the schools, arenas, arenas, barracks(?) and training courses. The rest of the city would be spread out around that, with the most influential/rich people nearest the centre, and the poor people around the outside. The streets would follow a hexagon grid-type pattern.

One face of the city would be set into the cliff, and the water would flow around it on all the other sides. Right.

I think that is a good idea, for a basis. I don't think they would build it as a perfect hexagon, though: it would be slightly oblong, perhaps with one less side on the outside as at the center.

The most prestigious locations would be the center, where the High Building is, and the outer walls, where the schools would be (I think). They wouldn't be in one place, but scattered about, separated quite a bit (they kinda war with each other).

And then also we have to take into consideration that each level (vertically) has a slightly different layout, and there are various holes that reach down into the lower layers for air flow and light, breaking it up quite a bit. And then there are the alterations that were made at various points that shuffle it up and remove the clean lines a lot.

Wait. So you can still access the old layers? Is it kind of tiered, like bunk beds? Do people live in them?

What if we started with the bottom layer, drew that, and then worked upwards?

Right. It is like a 3D cube, with each layer active and inhabited, with its own streets and everything.

We can try that. The lower levels would have a large amount of huge pillars and blocks of stone that branch out like trees to support the upper levels completely, and the upper levels would have gaps and holes to let light and air through, and many of the larger buildings might occupy more than one level, so we will have to take that into consideration.

Now that is cool.

So, for the bottom layer, it would be a hexagon with the front side flat? (basically a half-hexagon) The roads could probably be pretty symmetrical down there, because it's the first layer. How often would you want columns?

Something along those lines I think.

Right, they would. I think the columns would be about the size of buildings down there, on every block corner, probably. This is a very very strong city.

How large is the bottom layer? Which of the main buildings would reach all the way down there? Mainly what kind of buildings and what status level (or is it pretty evenly dispersed over the whole city)?

How many layers are there?

Much larger than the higher levels: I imagine it jutting out into the water quite a bit more, with pillars upholding platforms jutting out from the higher levels.

None of them would go down that deep, except for the deepest basement of the High Building. The only other multi-level buildings down there would be massive warehouse storage buildings two or three stories high.

Lowest status level of inhabitants. That level would be the core of crime rings around the world, actually... so that might tell you something.

Six main levels, with towers above that. Some of the towers would be parts of the High Building and the great schools. The highest level (other than the towers) would be only an extension of the walls, basically a ring of city around the center, with the High Building rising in the center.

Do you have an estimate in miles/kilometres? I like to keep things to scale if possible.



So would there be small, seedy shops, or would it be mostly hovels, the basement of the High Building, and the warehouses? How many warehouses, and where would they be?

Oh, and what direction would the flat side of the city face?

One mile wide by two miles long, how about that?

No shops. There would be military stations down there to guard the columns (don't want evil baddies to collapse the city by exploding them) and the warehouses (don't want evil baddies taking all the food either). Other than that it would just be vacant warehouses and apartments mixed with taverns and brothels and such like.

From what I can gather, take an average fantasy port-city and and stack the sections on top of each other?

Do you have something simpler?

More or less, something like that.

As in do I have a city that isn't so complex? Yes. Why?

I meant any buildings or drawings. The full map is far above my drawing skill.

Ooh I see. Thanks.

The High Building would probably be really complex as well (perhaps just as complex as the city), but I think at least one of the schools would be simpler though. You can design one of those. There is a lot more freedom in it too.

Thanks. I'll see what I can do.

Oh my goodness! This city is extremely complex! Mind if I borrow the underground levels part?

Haha, I am not the only one with that idea, so go ahead.

Thank you very much! The underground levels add greatly to the complexity of the city.