What are some good ways of discussing biblical truths without sounding preachy? What are some of your techniques towards avoiding this?

- Terra

I'm not sure exactly how I would classify my techniques. Originally my work wasn't going to be obviously Christian (so if it got published I wouldn't lose a fan base). Then I got thinking "Then why am I even writing?" I just asked God to make it the book He wanted me to write and, while it is clearly Christian, I still wouldn't say it's too preachy.

"Preachy-ness" is a complicated subject. It's an oft-discussed issue on the screenwriting forum I frequent, where everyone is obsessive about avoiding OTN (on-the-nose: overtly direct and obvious) dialog and morals. It's something I'm constantly working to improve in my writing, so I have a bit of advice borrowed from my screenwriting mentor...

Write about a truth that you have personal experience (struggle) with. Don't tell us what you learned - show us how you learned it.

What that means is - use your character's journey to lead your audience through a moral arc instead of forcing it down their throats. Show me, by what your character does and learns, how the truth applies.

The hardest part about this is portraying a character when they're sinning. As my mentor says, preachy-ness usually comes about when people think of a problem "other people have" and construct a simple narrative to illustrate a simple solution.

Your goal as a writer is to lead your audience along a journey they can empathize with. Show us a character that is lovably human. Have him exhibit a fault in such a way that we understand why he's sinning (if we even realize it's sin yet) and sympathize with his struggle. Then, as you guide your character through a journey and he learns the wrongness of his actions, we'll learn the lesson too and be changed.

In summary, to best way to avoid preachy-ness is to talk about a moral/truth that you struggle with (or have struggled with in the past) yourself!

I hope that made sense out-of-context! If you're willing to do a bit of wax on/wax off (that is, homework!), I can send to you via PM an exercise from my mentor. It will walk you through this notion extensively. It's a long assignment, so I won't post it here, but it's incredibly valuable.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Thanks, that'd be great!

-Terra

Another technique to avoid the sound of preaching in fictional writing is to use a normative character, that is, a character who believes just as the author does. Here's an example from a story of mine where I do something like this. Caeron is the first to speak, and is the first person "I" throughout:



Now that may not be the best example, but you can clearly see that Caeron is not the most scrupulous. I never said so, but by how he talks about right and wrong and what Hadraik thinks you know what the author thinks. Another way of doing this to be even more subtle would be after Caeron describes one of the many offensive things he's done, just write, "Hadraik gulped, but said nothing." Even that little motion of the throat betrays instantly that what Caeron did this time is offensive.

One way to make the message of your fiction seem natural rather than forced is to view your story as a parable. The events in the story illustrate the message, rather than you having to tell it, sort of like what Reiyen mentioned about using the actions of characters.

This is of course easier said than done.

I do think I should point out, though, that much of the current 'preachiness' controversy I hear about all the time seems to be coming from people who are embarrassed to state their beliefs rather than concerned about the integrity of the story, or who are taking too seriously the attacks of biased critics.

To some extent, a story that doesn't have a message of Biblical truth by default has a message of deception.

It's hard to show Biblical truth in moment without sounding preachy, but can be done, as others have showed, often by a student/mentor conversation. On the other hand, it's not difficult at all to show Biblical morals throughout the scope of a story. And sometimes the reader is not even aware he has been influenced. A reader who really gets into a story and enjoys reading goes through the journey with character, both physically and mentally.

I say the best way to keep if from being to preachy is too not purposely try to preach, if you're any good at writing you won't have to, your ideas will be expressed.

I have struggled a little with this. But then I realized I can't write something that I don't understand, or know little about. I need to write from the angle I understand, so my next novel is one about a man searching. I can understand a searching heart, even though I have been a Christian my whole life. You need to write what you identify with, so your audience can see that your heart truly is in your writing. If you write about something you don't identify with well, it will sound preachy.

Whatever part of the Word you are most intrigued by, write about it. It's what your most familiar about and you will feel comfortable writing it. My view, anyway.

I didn't totally read everything on this thread, for lack of time (I will go back and read them when I get the time, though =D) but I wanted to throw in my two cents.

I agree that making a character arc throughout the entire book, telling a lesson you learned in your life, is a good idea. I do think that having a different God in your book can be dangerous though, so just make sure that when you point people to something, you are clearly pointing them to Jesus Christ, and not your made-up god. =) (Just thought I'd throw that in to consider)

eruheran

Every Christian Fantasy I've ever read was so preachy it was painful.
Young people trying to write deep stuff like Pilgrim Progress will fail. Spiritual writing is for people with more experience and a lot of wisdom collected through the years. Does this mean your writing be completely un "lesson" teaching? No, but it needs to be done right.

~Joe~

(That's why Lewis isn't preachy. He was a wise old man.)

I disagree. If God has put it on a young person's heart to write something deep and convicting, they will succeed; even if that means only one person benefits from it, it's a success. Spiritual writing is for anyone who are convicted to write it. However, I do believe someone (young or old) must know what they're talking about if their to undergo this challenging kind of writing.

As for Lewis (I'm guessing you're referring to C.S. Lewis?) you are right; he's not preachy. (My view of Narnia) But may I say, when I read one of the Narnia books, I couldn't tell it was Christian even though it was meant to be. How then will this impact an athiest?

That's my point of view, anyway.

You couldn't tell it was Christian!!?!?
I have yet to see a young person that had something on "their heart" that was a good allegory.

Christian fantasy doesn't necessarily equal allegory...true allegory is hard, and I don't think most authors try for it. On the other hand, I generally don't read much Christian fiction because I often do find it to be preachy.

*shrugs* If you think God put it on your heart, though, definitely write it.

That is sad, however I agree with Bush here, I believe God can use young people and older people alike. I guess it depends what you, as an individual, see as a 'good allegory.' May I say with all humbleness that maybe you haven't read the ones that there are out there?

I have heard that C.S Lewis was not a Christian when he wrote the Narnia books and he never meant them to be 'Christian books.' I think that some people would read the Narnia books and not see that 'Christian aspect' from it and maybe as Christians we see it because we read the Bible and can see some similarities.

Hey, hey, what makes a "good allegory" is very subjective. It is entirely possible that what you think make a "good allegory" can indeed only been done by adults, and what Maid thinks makes a "good allegory" can indeed be made by younger authors.

Also, this is a thread to talk about how to make a point without being preachy, not about who can make a point without being preachy and who can't.

A fantasy with a moral isn't necessarily an allegory. (Lord of the Rings, The Silmarillion, etc.)

A fantasy that is metaphorical isn't necessarily an allegory. (Chronicles of Narnia, etc.)

Here's a question: how do you define preachy?

I define "preachy" as something which offends a person by presenting a view of morality, religion, politics, environmentalism, etc., which is contradictory to their own.

Note that a contradictory view can be presented which does not offend the person in question. Thousands of extremely conservative Christians watched and enjoyed Avatar, a movie which presents messages diametrically opposed to the worldview of those movie goers.

They weren't offended because they chose not to be.

Here's a better question: is being preachy bad writing?

That depends on how you preach.

For example: Frank Peretti's young adult series, Cooper Kids, states the message of each book so firmly and clearly that a person who disagrees with that message will feel as if they have been hit on the head with a twenty pound Bible.

In short, they won't respond positively to the story.

But now let's look at a movie, The Second Chance.

No one ever explicitly states the message. You realize what the message is. The only people offended are those Christians who disagree with or are convicted by the message.

Even better is Never Let You Go, Erin Healy's first solo novel.

Until the very end, Healy doesn't reveal the message. But the book is such a profound argument in favor of her message that the only people who are offended are those who resist the will of the Lord.

Here's the best question: what does God want us to preach?

Read this article by our own Robert Treskillard and decide for yourself: What is Christian Fantasy?

Then you get C.S. Lewis whose preachy writing is the equivalent of being whacked in the back of the head with a two by four but is so well written that you either keep reading or put it down and say thank you same time tomorrow?

And no, he was most certainly a Christian when he wrote The Chronicles. Compare them to Mere Christianity if you doubt.

I think "preachy" entails a certain amount of blatancy in the presentation of the contradictory view. For instance, the Christian view is pretty clearly presented in LOTR and Narnia, yet many non-Christians have read them and not been offended.

The fact is that Christian allegories written by Christian young people don't hit the market, at least not as much as other stuff. That is probably why it is difficult to find good ones. Besides, as Neil of Erk pointed out, fantasy with a moral does not equal allegory. There are lots of good stories, that have morals, by Christian young people, including myself, in "The Fireside" on this very forum.

Pretty much anything has "some" kind of moral to it.
To define Preachy for myself, I would say when your story is so saturated with moralizing that it interferes with your story. Also when there is an obvious allegory. I like allegory if it's "Pilgrim's Progress" but no fantasy I have read (and I've read far too many...) has pulled off full allegory. Also having a "God" and a "Messiah" in your books. Lewis did this and he is the only one that ever did it to my liking. Most of what I've read cheapified it.

Notice that Lewis was rather mature when he pulled this off? That's why I stick to my theory that young people should try to stay away from this to an extent until they are more mature.

Like someone else said earlier. If someone feels like God has put it into their heart to write an allegory, then, by all means, write!

I would agree, to that degree that the more blatantly and frankly something contradictory is presented, the more likely it is to offend.

If I say your that you're wearing your shirt backwards, you'll take it as a helpful remark. If I say, "Turn your shirt around, genius. Can't you do anything right?" you will probably perceive it negatively.

*rolling on floor laughing* That is a funny comparison!

Like I mentioned earlier, "preachiness" is mostly a myth about Christian novels. I rarely read anything that beats someone over the head with too strong of a Christian message. The main problems come when a Christian message is paired with a weak story, or a story is paired with a Christian message that doesn't complement it. The Christian message isn't at fault in either case, yet it often seems to be blamed.

I plan on using my current work as a project for school. The principle of my (Christian by the way) school was utterly astounded when I told him some of the symbolism I would show in my story. We then proceeded to chat about symbolism and story lines for long after the interview... Yes, children can write descent, Christian fantasy.

There is no "full" allegory. Nothing can capture the fullness of the Word and the Story except itself.

I know that I've probably said more than my fair share on the subject, but if you don't have a God in your story, I am forced to question your motives for writing. "Do all to the glory of God."

Do not forget that we are not to be condemned because of our youth, nor should we condemn other youths. Spiritual maturity depends on the person.

Perhaps you are not mature enough. Perhaps I am not mature enough. But I have met youths who had the maturity to write strong, true, Christian fiction.

Also, even if you have read a bad allegory by a young writer, give them points for getting published in the first place. Even if what they wrote isn't up to your standard, they've fulfilled their dream of becoming an author.

I have never read any published young authors. Are there any? I would really like to find one.
If your story is preachy you basically have two markets for it. 1) to the unsaved. If it is your goal to reach the lost with your work having it blatantly "preachy" will mean not very many will read it. 2) you have the christian market; here you will do better but if I was going to read something good for my soul I would read Mere Christianity or something like that. Not some fantasy novel by some kid.

I think that's where you're a bit off. (With all do respect.)

I have found more wisdom in well written and Christian fiction than I have in a number (but not all) of the many Spiritual non-fiction books I have read.

This is because a story moves us much better than prose. I have read books and articles about forgiveness but never understood it until I read a novel which illustrated exactly what it does to us.

And as I have already said, age has nothing to do with it. May I ask whether you are an adult or not?

Because if you are not, then I am surprised you do not realize that you are doing the opposite of what you preach by preaching to us here.

If you are an adult, that I ask that you not disrespect us because of our age. A Timothy (or the female equivalent) may well be among us. Daniel and his friends were youths, as well.

It's great that you were moved by those books Erik. Could you tell me their names so I could read them too?

I'm just saying from my experience of reading Christian fantasy that was preachy I didn't think any were well done.
I have read:
The kingdom series.
the Wilder king.
Dragonspell series.

Those are all I remember....
Again, I have nothing against young fantasy writers. I'm trying to pinpoint why none are well done. This, of course, is in reference to preachy books. I have read fantasy books by young people who were not trying to be blatantly Christian and found some of them to be quite good.

Also I am 18 years old so I'm in between kid and adult.

I really do hope we have a "Daniel" on here! I'm just not seeing it yet. It will probably take time for them to mature

If I sound preachy I'm sorry I was trying to discuss not preach to the choir.

I though Dragonspell was very well done. Sure it has a style to it that one accustomed to Lewis and Tolkien find simple but that's where it's beauty lies. When I was in Guatemala two years ago our primary evangelism was interpretive drama. It was a fantasy of sorts: the story of the Creation, Death, and Resurrection with all the characters as toys. From a born and raised Christian point of view that hardly seems marketable but those dramas saw over three thousand people come to Christ. Dragonspell had that feel to me. If we were all writing philosophical books who would be there to show the little children that they can come to Him?

Do remember though, the Kingdom series are directed at a much younger age. Young Adult spans from 13 - 18, so they are probably directed at the younger end of the Young Adult scale. So obviously, these books would seem a little boring, or not up to scratch for someone who is 18+.

And I think Neil of Erk was speaking of a bulk of Christian fiction that he has read, not specific volumes. (I know I wouldn't know where to begin naming all the books I've read )

It comes down to taste. Some people can take the blunt truth, some can't. Also, some people who read books written bluntly can either calmly disagree and keep reading, or get angry and throw the book at the wall and vow never to read it again. I like blunt truth written plainly in books. Frank E. Peretti is a good example of this. Some books however, seem to be softening the truth to make it easier to swallow, and that is the kind of preachy I dislike. I guess the subject of "preachy" is quite a grey area in terms of what is and what isn't preachy.

If you want good, not-preachy, fantasy written by young-person who is a Christian I recommend you head over to the Fireside and read the story thread, Wizard's Duel by Ardyth.

It depends what you see as a good Christian allegory. Just because you read a book and think 'that wasn't a good allegory' doesn't mean other people won't find it good. Remember people are all at different places in their Christian walk and just because something doesn't speak to you doesn't make it 'not a good Christian allegory.'

We all have different opinions. For instance I know a lot of people think the Lord Of The Rings is an allegory? Is that true? My parents won't have the books in their house; they respect that I like them etc but they don't see them as Christian at all. I don't know what to think of them but when I talked to Jay about it he explained that he sees Gandalf as an angel, I think etc. It was most interesting (I'd never heard that view point before).

We all have differences but we should respect our differing ones, (not saying anyone here isn't). I haven't read enough Christian fantasy to comment on any books but that's my two penny's worth.

Edit: After reading this back I was worried I'd gone off topic I hope I haven't and it makes sense.

If you told Tolkien that The Lord of the Rings was an allegory he would be very upset because he disliked allegory very much. What he would say is that you are mixing up allegory and applicability. We can all see messages in The Lords of the Rings that apply to our lives, but an allegory would neccesitate that Tolkien deliberately put those there and had a specific application in mind. The difference is slight, but it is important. I love LOTR and find lessons in it all the time.

Aaah ok, Thanks for explaining that Reiyen, sorry for the mix up )

Getting back to the original question. I think that if you have really strong biblical stuff in your book it will not be as good as it could be as it would if you illustrated it through the subtext. (People like to have things spelled out to them but they don't like it when you do it so that they feel like you think there stupid and won't get it otherwise.
When I write I have a theme for the story what is the heart of it and then through the story you weave your message.

As to allegory I think I'm done on that one for now. The only allegory that I thought was ever well done was Pilgrims Progress.
Lewis and Tolkien both disliked Allegory and so do I.
And taking a Bible story and making it set in a fantasy world to me is "adding and subtracting from the word"

(oh, and I read the Kingdom series when I was 14 so I was in the age range.)

I agree with this. I know I, as a Christian, will make comparisons and similarities to the Bible from any book I read, even if it is utterly secular. City of Ember, for example, is not a Christian work - but depending on how you look at it, it portrays an allegory that is either distinctly pro-Christian or distinctly anti-Christian. And yet, you could take it as just an adventure story as well.

I have to agree with Joe on a few points:

Definitely. I couldn't say it better myself.

Allegory has its place, but that place is not on my shelves. Pilgrim's Progress is a classic. That is why I read it. Actually, I read it for school, but, anyhow, I would use The Door Within as my example of an allegory that probably wouldn't make it on my shelf.

But wouldn't that mean that God has patented His story and we can't use it? There's no story worth telling that isn't a piece of the Bible. That verse refers to the canonized old and new testament. You can still use and apply the Word. Otherwise that makes Lewis out to be an insufferable blasphemer.

That is in reference to things like "Darions Rise" where they take an entire Bible story and change it around.

BushMaid, if you remember mshorselady off Nano, she says she's not positive that CS Lewis was a Christian. So many views differ. I didn't really know until my mom told me, then I saw the beliefs shown as Aslan as Jesus, coming back to life, and so forth. . .

If Lewis wasn't a Christian he sure was good at pretending to be

Not intending to get off topic, etc etc etc, Lewis believed in purgatory.

So did Tolkien and pretty much any other Catholic.

Lewis was Anglican, not Catholic.

I still think "preachiness" is largely a myth. Most writers seem to water down the Christian message in their novels, not hit people over the head with it.

So you think christian books aren't preachy enough?

I knew Lewis wasn't Catholic.

I think that Christian novels should have a good story with a strong Christian message that is relevant to and interwoven into the story.


I figured you did. I was just clarifying.