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 Post subject: Karhalla
PostPosted: February 8th, 2015, 9:06 pm 
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This culture status structure is based on skill in all sorts of combat: personal combat (MMA style), combat with all types of weapons, etc.

I don't know exactly how many classes there are, but I know it's a rather rigid system. Every year, there is a huge event where all able-bodied males fight to determine their class. These combats are highly regulated and expertly judged. Casualties are uncommon, but nobody except the best go through a class-test without a wound of some kind or another. Pain is considered an agent of strengthening. Not exactly "pain is weakness leaving the body," but something more like "pain provides stimulus for growth in emotional, psychological, and even bodily strength."
The yearly test is a huge event. There are multiple tests in the different branches of combat, ranging from strategy to MMA-style fighting to plain old sword-duels. Each area of combat is ranked differently and given different value.

First in order of importance are the tests for strategy and the 'mental' side of war; however, without high test levels of competence in the other areas of testing, a high result in this area will not give you a very high class. Actually, because of the cultural emphasis on physical fitness and ability to fight, such a person would not be looked upon very highly. A scribe or military adviser of some kind or another would be the most likely role such a person would play. They would be considered a necessary nuisance, essentially, because they don't personally live up to the cultural standard of what is means to be Karhal (which could be translated, I believe, into English as Warmaster).

Personal fitness and weaponless combat is held in very high esteem and thus given high value, though there is a predetermined range of value depending on the kind of combat.

Next in order of importance would be all types of combat with weapons, in which there is also a range of value.
It is up to personal preference which tests one will enter. The more tests you enter, the better your class will be, if you're good at them all. However, the games take a lot out of you, so there's a limit to how many tests you can take and still function at your maximum level of expertise in all of them. So sometimes it would be better to focus on three areas of high skill rather than, say, all five areas of high skills that you possess.

This focus on personal fitness is a result of Karhal culture's founding fathers emphasis on individual self-dependence and ability to survive. Thus their culture remains rather uncivilized (not much focus on scholastic studies, writing, etc...), or perhaps a better way to put it is that they don't become specialized in the way we do today. If you took a Karhal and stranded him in the middle of the wilderness, he would be able to survive. He would have the skills and knowledge and physical ability to survive on his own.
For the most part.

Those who aren't at this level of competence are not considered true Karhal. This focus on being an individual warmaster (aka true Karhal) all by oneself is a type of religion. The closer one is to meeting the perfect standard of a true warmaster (set by the Karhalla forefathers), the closer one is to perfection, which is essentially divinity.
Thus all of life for a Karhal is a journey towards becoming the best warmaster he can. That is why class is based on ability in combat and war.

The ruler of the Karhalla is called "The Karhal" and is often addressed as Alla - Master, Lord. The Karhal is a title/position, not a name. It is a position whose term expires yearly (however, for stability's sake, it is usually contrived by the most skilled warriors to allow one man to be the Karhal for several years in a row).

I have not yet determined what the different classes are, unfortunately. But this provides the basic framework of their culture.

Questions are extremely welcome! :D I developed much of this as I wrote it just today, though some of the basic ideas underlying this were already formed.

Areth,

Ka

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Last edited by Karthmin on April 28th, 2015, 7:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Karhalla
PostPosted: April 16th, 2015, 11:31 am 
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I have read some of your other stuff, i like it definitely sounds interesting.

I like the high regard for personal fitness and weaponless combat.

Are there separations for those who use weapons? or are they not included at all. I would imagine that since the system is rigid there is alot of friction...between the classes..

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 Post subject: Re: Karhalla
PostPosted: April 20th, 2015, 7:52 am 
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Thanks, Rinothean! (I didn't check this until just now so pardon my delayed response.)

Are there separations for those who use weapons? I'm not sure exactly what you mean. If you mean: are there different tests for different weapons? then Yes, definitely. Every weapon has its own test, and every weapon has its own value in the grand scheme correlating to a specific class.

In addition, there is also the "Open" test where anyone with any weapon can participate and the winner is the highest weapons-master (most events take place as a series of individual contests like a tennis tournament or something of the sort, rather than a general melee).

If you meant, however, Is there is a class division between those who use weapons and those who do not? - I don't think there is a division. Mainly because there are very few Karhal who do not use weapons at all. Weaponless combat is highly esteemed, but at the same time, it is seen mainly as the foundation upon which to build lethal weapon skills. Without the foundation, you could become fairly proficient in combat with a weapon, but in the eyes of a Karhal, that would only be half of the battle. If you cannot defend yourself without your weapon (ie. if you haven't built a solid foundation of weaponless combat), then you're relying on the weapon to protect you and are not truly in your person, narrowly considered without any weapons, dangerous or fit to survive.

[However, there is a small semi-religious order within Karhal society that views the use of all weapons as a perversion of the original Karhal 'religio-philosophy" because any weapon can essentially become a crutch upon which or around which the warrior builds his identity of lethal force. Essentially, these purists believe that a warriors first and foremost identity of lethal force should be his own body devoid of any additions. Members of this order would shun the use of all weapons and would devote themselves to all forms of weaponless combat.
Because of their extreme proficiency in weaponless combat, they usually get a pretty high class ranking - even though they are only proficient in one specific area (if they were also proficient in weapons, they would get a higher ranking). They also devote themselves to the psychology of warfare and the warrior mind, developing techniques of self-manipulation by which they can ignore pain and function even with extreme wounds (this is going along the Buddhist-monk line of things....), among other very interesting and (for a warrior) helpful ways of thinking during combat.]

Tension? Oh yes. Of course. You can't really have such a combat-focused class society without a decent amount of tension built into the fabric of the society. :D
This tension usually surfaces in the form of personal fights between individuals who believed that they were given a wrong ranking. Because one's entire social standing is based on your performance at the yearly event, it's very traumatic to lose class, and if there was one person in particular that you did very poorly against at the testing, then you might just not like that person very much.
These fights are not dishonorable or treacherous events where ambushes and poisons and the like reign. On the other hand, these engagements are carefully ruled and are actually rather social events - though it really depends on the status of the combatants. The result of a duel like this does not change the actual class of the combatants, but if the prior loser wins this duel, he regains a lot of social esteem, and his honor is probably satisfied. In this way someone in a relatively low class could gain much esteem throughout the year by beating higher-class opponents. This would not change his class, but it would make him more of a socially acclaimed figure.
It is considered cowardly to refuse a duel offered by a man within two ranks of you. It is considered mercy to refuse a duel offered by a man three or more ranks below you.

I'll have to work on other instances of social conflict showing itself, but this particular instance is not terribly destructive, though it can lead to ongoing strife and bad feeling between individuals/families that over time can build up and lead to outright Hatfield-McCoy-type feuds.

Because the class system is highly regulated, merit-based, and relatively fluid because it changes yearly, there is not actually a huge amount of friction that develops (not as much as would be expected from a warlike culture). It does exist, however, and crime is also present in the society.

Keep the questions coming if you think of any other good ones, because questions really form the hinge-pin for my world-building. (Probably about 80% of what I just wrote is original material... i.e. I just made it up. xD And I wouldn't have thought of it unless confronted with those questions that I needed to explain. :) )

Thanks for your interest,
Areth,

Karthmin

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 Post subject: Re: Karhalla
PostPosted: April 22nd, 2015, 2:16 am 
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How is the ruler chosen? Is Alla just the highest class, in which there can be only one member?

Does anyone get blamed if someone does die during one of the class tests? I mean, because if somebody wanted to murder somebody else, it would be a pretty convenient time to do it.


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 Post subject: Re: Karhalla
PostPosted: April 23rd, 2015, 2:15 pm 
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The Karhal is the ruler. And yes, it is the highest class, composed of only one individual.

This man is "chosen" only indirectly. He still fights, like everyone else, to maintain his position at the yearly games. However, like a Chinese Olympics, the winner is semi-predetermined beforehand by the political maneuvers and promises of the highest and most influential men of the kingdom.
For example, if I wanted to be the Karhal, I would have to make rather significant promises to my close competition to persuade (ahem...bribe) them to allow me to win our duels. However, most of the best warriors are running deals with multiple other warriors, and since most of those deals are strictly confidential, I wouldn't know if my promise was not as big as my neighbor's promise to this guy here that I'm trying to convince to 'let' me win.
There is usually some general consensus among the best warriors as to who would best fill the position of Karhal, and it is usually this man who ends up with the position but this doesn't prevent side-deals and some individuals vying whole-heartedly for the position themselves.

For many warriors, the position would be more of a bother than a bonus, though your word is ultimate when it comes to national campaigns and things of that nature, and you are supreme judge of the land. The position of general is to most of these men more attractive than that of Karhal.

Good questions about using the tests as a cover for murder. The penalty for killing your opponent during the games is death. There are several guards present at any contest, and if one opponent kills the other, they execute the offender forthwith, even if it was an accident.
All contests are held with fully functional weapons (e.g. no blunted swords), and wounding your opponent is legal.

If a contestant wounds his opponent to such a degree that he dies more than seven days later, there is no penalty, because they believe that by that time a disease secondary to the wound (ie. infection) has most likely caused the death, and not the wound(s) it/themselves.
However, a wound resulting in death less than seven days later requires the administration of the same wound (or as close an approximation as possible) upon the offender's body. (This wound is administered by a non-influenced third party.)
If a wound results in death on the seventh day, a relative of the deceased may issue a challenge to a duel with the offender, which the offender cannot refuse (according to societal standards; technically he could refuse, but he'd probably end up getting killed).

In the case of multiple wounds received in different duels adding up to death less than seven days later, each offender receives the wound that he gave the deceased individual, or as near an approximation as possible.
In the case of multiple wounds received in different duels adding up to death seven or more days later, there is no penalty.

So wounding your opponent is kinda risky. The point of the tests/duels are not to defeat your opponent so much as to demonstrate superior skill (at which time the duel ends).
This demonstration of superior skill in weapon handling is judged on the basis of who controls the fight more of the time, number of hits (light armor is optional, most prefer to wear it), area of hits (head hit is automatic win - but also potentially dangerous to attempt because of wounding/killing rules), and other points.

The judges are those in the scribe/strategy class. They are not usually themselves proficient fighters, but must demonstrate complete mastery of combat strategy, precise knowledge of weapon uses and skills - basically, they're a very specialized peanut gallery of guys who have usually been watching and judging duels for years. Their word is law for the duel that they are judging.

Hope that answered your questions! :) Thanks for asking!

-Ka

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Last edited by Karthmin on April 28th, 2015, 7:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Karhalla
PostPosted: April 24th, 2015, 2:40 pm 
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It must be pretty frustrating to people if there is a man who is so good at fighting that he is able to become the Alla without doing any of the 'politics'.

The system of this society seems to have enough sense in it that it would work. It's a cool structure.

How do women fit into the classes? Is their class determined by whatever man they are socially associated with (father, husband, maybe brother)?

I am curious: is 'Alla' meant to be a similar word to 'Allah'? or is it coincidence?


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 Post subject: Re: Karhalla
PostPosted: April 25th, 2015, 7:10 pm 
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Yes! I like the system because it is based on skill/merit, and thus has strict rules and so if you play the system as it was set up, the most skillful man ends up on top - potentially frustrating those who have attempted to play with the system and work it to their advantage. So you can have the "status quo" where they politicize the contest - and you can have the super-good 'outsider' come in and sweep the field without doing any of the bribes or deals - and they can't do anything about it because the system is based on those simple rules that everyone has to play by.

However, it's not often that a man comes in like that and wins without doing the politics. Even as the Karhal, he would have the hardest time of his life trying to get anyone to cooperate with him. It's kinda nice to have friends and allies who will work with you if you're the Karhal, which is why the politics 'have' to happen, in that sense.

Thanks! I'm glad you like it. I always knew it would be a structured society, but I didn't know exactly how until I had to explain it on here! xD HW is the best! :cool:

What about the women? I've been waiting for someone to ask that question. So it's been stewing around a little bit.
Unfortunately, I think it's pretty simple. And I say unfortunately because, well, this is definitely a sexist society.
Women are primarily child-bearers. Bearing children is pretty much their ultimate function. With a war-focused society, you have a lot of wars being fought, so you need a high replacement rate (US replacement rate is about 2.1. Karhalla replacement rates are probably around 6 or more). More young men become more soldiers for bigger armies and more wars.
And more young women eventually become more baby-makers. So either way you cut the watermelon, women are supposed to have babies.

Polygamy is pretty much universal. Families are quite large and extended (think Arab-ish). Personal fitness is highly prized, and most women have a basic understanding and skill in some weapon or another. Some women become quite skilled.
However, women are never tested publicly to determine their class. They are always dependent socially on the nearest living male relative (husband, father, brother, uncle, etc....) and take their class status from him (because they live with them.

Yes. Alla is supposed to be similar to Allah. The meaning (master) is roughly equivalent, and it fits into the name Karhalla (which I made up first) in a way that is too good to pass up, so I did it. It might not last.
What do you think? How does it come across to you?

Edit: Oh, and prostitution is also pretty common throughout their kingdom, but rather than having kids as a result seen as a bad thing that takes them away from business - having kids kind of is their business, as well as to provide convenient sexual fulfillment for all those soldiers running around without their wives.
Legally, the pimp has to be the male responsible for the women, but this technicality is pretty much always worked around by a bargain system where you have this poor family that cannot afford their daughter and they offer her to the pimp who is more than happy to take her off their hands for a convenient poverty-alleviating sum of money, thus essentially (though not technically) making her a slave (slavery is very common). The pimp would mask his operation under the guise of all the women being a part of his harem, which, if you're going to be technical, they are because they're under his responsibility and they're not his daughters or sisters (or mothers), so the only other relation they can be as a female in his house is that of wife (marriage is really that imprecise - if you're under a man's authority and thus in his house, and you're neither his sister or his mother or his daughter, you are his wife. This is legal status, not personal relationship, so a man could give his 'wife' to someone else to be their wife, and it wouldn't be a huge deal - although it kinda depends how he treated her beforehand. If he showed that he loved her and wanted her to be a mother of his children, and had children with her, then it would be more of a biggy, but still not unheard of.)
So yeah, this society is definitely not one in which you want to be a woman.

Areth,

Ka

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Last edited by Karthmin on April 28th, 2015, 7:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Karhalla
PostPosted: April 26th, 2015, 6:38 pm 
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Karthmin wrote:
Yes. Alla is supposed to be similar to Allah. The meaning (master) is roughly equivalent, and it fits into the name Karhalla (which I made up first) in a way that is too good to pass up, so I did it. It might not last.
What do you think? How does it come across to you?


Sorry, this might be a little off-topic, but I thought "Allah" directly translated into "God".


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 Post subject: Re: Karhalla
PostPosted: April 28th, 2015, 7:26 am 
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In our world, yes, Allah means God.

In Airamiel, Alla does not mean God, it means Master (one who has the mastery; not only one who has power, but also along the idea of a master craftsman, one who has greatest skill). In conjuction with 'kar' (war), Karhalla means war-masters.

So they are definitely two different words and if both were translated into English, there would be large differences between the two. However, they are roughly equivalent, meaning that there is some after-the-fact purposeful similarity between them. Basically I assigned meaning to Alla and then I'm like, "Oh no way, it's kinda like Allah".....and didn't bother to change it because I was tired of having to make sure nothing sounded like something someone else had done, because that's almost inevitable.

Edit: The highest position in the land is called "The Karhal" - "Warmaster". (I will fix previous references to align with this.)
Alla is merely a word (master/lord) used in reference to him, in a very similar way as 'your majesty', or a heightened form of 'sir'.
Alla is also used as a title (not name) for deities as well. Because their societal system is semi-religious, the Karhal is kinda divine (ish), which is why he can be called Alla and it's not blasphemous.
Some masters require their slaves to call them alla also, so it's really a word with a broad range of uses.
Fundamentally, it means master/lord.

Areth,

Ka

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 Post subject: Re: Karhalla
PostPosted: May 11th, 2015, 2:46 am 
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Karthmin wrote:
Oh, and prostitution is also pretty common throughout their kingdom, but rather than having kids as a result seen as a bad thing that takes them away from business - having kids kind of is their business, as well as to provide convenient sexual fulfillment for all those soldiers running around without their wives.
What happens to the children, though? do they grow up as the legal 'children' of the pimp?

Karthmin wrote:
The highest position in the land is called "The Karhal" - "Warmaster". (I will fix previous references to align with this.)
Alla is merely a word (master/lord) used in reference to him, in a very similar way as 'your majesty', or a heightened form of 'sir'.
Alla is also used as a title (not name) for deities as well. Because their societal system is semi-religious, the Karhal is kinda divine (ish), which is why he can be called Alla and it's not blasphemous.
Some masters require their slaves to call them alla also, so it's really a word with a broad range of uses.
Fundamentally, it means master/lord.
Hm, cool.


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 Post subject: Re: Karhalla
PostPosted: May 11th, 2015, 9:59 am 
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Yes, because legally and technically, the prostitutes are considered his wives, the children they bear are then considered to be his children.
There is a large standing army, and it is socially advantageous to send your sons to join the army, so that's where most of the boys end up (talk about societal standards encouraging prostitution -_-), and the girls are sometimes murdered just after birth because they aren't wanted, or they are raised to become the next generation of prostitutes.

Egh. It's an ugly world.

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 Post subject: Re: Karhalla
PostPosted: May 14th, 2015, 11:32 am 
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Karthmin wrote:
Yes, because legally and technically, the prostitutes are considered his wives, the children they bear are then considered to be his children.
There is a large standing army, and it is socially advantageous to send your sons to join the army, so that's where most of the boys end up (talk about societal standards encouraging prostitution -_-), and the girls are sometimes murdered just after birth because they aren't wanted, or they are raised to become the next generation of prostitutes.
That seems to make sense.. :P

Karthmin wrote:
Egh. It's an ugly world.
Huh. Yeah. :P


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