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 Post subject: Music as Magic
PostPosted: October 17th, 2010, 7:16 pm 
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I have always liked the fluid, elemental qualities of magic in Faerie Tales.

The way magic is described, as deep, or weaving, twisted liquid. Magic that seems very loose and unbounded, but which is acceptable to the Christian worldview as an elemental force, no different than gravity, and within reason.

I wanted to portray this magic in a way that maintains the qualities that I’ve described, but with a fresh, unique angle and a modern flavor. What better way than music?

Indeed, in the world I write about, music and magic are inextricably linked. Music is magic. Play a scale on your piano, and you have a magical effect. And any word of magic is always related to music.

Much of it is simple. Tradesmen sing over their word to improve its quality and give it musical (and therefore magical) qualities. Even the spoken voice, the ring of a sword unsheathed, the smith’s hammer at work, can all have a magical effect.

But like music, the effect is mostly guided and empowered by intent. And just as a hasty word can hurt the feelings, a hasty word can have a dangerous magical effect.

Most people, unaware of the musical qualities that surrounded them, have very little (if any) magical effect. Without the power of magical intent, which requires and awareness of music, their words lack strength.

Those that are aware of music have its incredible power at their disposal. Their every word, even the sounds of their steps, can work wonders, if they intended it.

In order of importance, these are the factors that control and empower magic:

1. The Will
a. Intent (the desired effect)
b. Concentration (the strength of the focus on the music and the effect)
c. Strength of Will (how strongly the effect is desire: whether desperately or disinterestedly)

2. The Nature (Is the noise soft, sweet, swift? The essence of the music effect the essence of the magic. Is your song dark, or happy?)

3. Ability

The musical ability of the person in question is important. People who are aware of music but not educated in its production can produce only the most basic effects. A virtuoso pianist, on the other hand, can work powerful miracles.

Music is a communication system for emotion. It’s a way of capturing an essence through the audible. We all innately sense sadness, joy, or strength in a song. In the same way, this magic is mostly a communication system, but much less limited. Rather than reaching to men’s hearts, it can deliver messages to the forces of nature themselves. Music can work magic in our hearts. In this world, it works the same miracles on landscapes, cultures, and planets.

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I am Ebed Eleutheros, redeemed from slavery in sin to the bond-service of my Master, Jesus Christ.

Redemption is to be purchased, to have a price paid. So I was redeemed from my master sin, and from justice, which demanded my death. For He paid the price of sin by becoming sin, and met the demands of justice by dying for us.

For all men have a master. But a man cannot have two masters. For he will love one and hate the other. You cannot serve God and sin. So I die to the old, as He died, and I am resurrected to the new, as He was resurrected.

Note: Ebed is Hebrew for bondsman, Eleutheros is Greek for unrestrained (not a slave).


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 Post subject: Re: Music as Magic
PostPosted: October 18th, 2010, 8:14 am 
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I like the idea of this... music = total coolness. I'd definitely read a book with this premise. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Music as Magic
PostPosted: October 18th, 2010, 12:20 pm 
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Does the effect of the "magic" change based on someone's perception of the music? Everyone is effected by music in different ways - are they similarly affected by the "magic" in different ways?

For instance, I dislike ambiance because of the lack of tune. For a similar reason, I don't like most of Shostakovitch's works (and other composers with the same style) - it's too random and twangy and seems to lack melody altogether. I don't enjoy listening to music like that, and the only emotion I get out of it is chaos. However, if you like that style, you probably understand it better and can absorb the composer's intents better.

In the same way, people can also "zone out" sounds as they get used to them. Some people can completely ignore their surroundings and focus only on what they're doing. Can a "magic" lose effect if a person has become used to the sound? Can certain people ignore "magic" going on around them completely if their focus is elsewhere? And what of deaf people?

Or are you bypassing the act of hearing altogether? Does the music do its work, regardless of whether or not anyone is listening?

The idea of "words as music" struck out to me. There is a powerful world you can explore if you look into the effect of words. The Bible abounds with proverbs and instructions on the tongue, the fire which no man can tame, either working wonders or destroying lives. By translating that into "magic" and its more literal effects, you can teach or imply those morals with great power.

I like the idea of this premise. I love music, and I am aware of the effect sound can have. I think it would be interesting to see these effects represented more literally in a fantasy world. If most of the "magic" is fairly drastic (making very obvious and sudden changes in the surroundings), I agree that you will have to define what sounds truly produce an effect, lest things get chaotic and confusing. But on the flipside, I think it would also be interesting if all sound had a natural effect, however subtle. You could show, in a very beautiful way, how even the most mundane sounds bring depth to our world. Trees in the breeze, waves on the shore, someone's laugh. You wouldn't want, say, people turning into frogs (for an exaggerated example) every time someone laughed. But the sound, in a very small way, could bring color, lift spirits, lighten the air... And you could still show how music, if used expertly and purposefully, can wield a greater effect. Just a thought.

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 Post subject: Re: Music as Magic
PostPosted: October 20th, 2010, 6:04 pm 
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Philadelphia wrote:
Does the effect of the "magic" change based on someone's perception of the music? Everyone is effected by music in different ways - are they similarly affected by the "magic" in different ways?

For instance, I dislike ambiance because of the lack of tune. For a similar reason, I don't like most of Shostakovitch's works (and other composers with the same style) - it's too random and twangy and seems to lack melody altogether. I don't enjoy listening to music like that, and the only emotion I get out of it is chaos. However, if you like that style, you probably understand it better and can absorb the composer's intents better.


Magic is almost entirely guided by the users intention. However, two things must be kept in mind.

1. In the case that music is being used to impact a person emotionally or mentally, their minds receptivity plays a significant factor. For magic to effect the mind or spirit, the person must be receptive, or at least open, to the music. However, if I wanted to disorient you or break your mind, I would probably use a highly dissonant and random structure.

2. When using magic on something other than a mind or spirit, the best way to concentrate and focus the effects of the music is to make the music heavily metaphorical, both in the music phrasing, and in the lyrics, if lyrics are used. Remembering that music is primarily a metaphor for emotions, happy, sad, dark, etc., keep in mind that music can also be metaphorical for other things. Two melodies, each dissonant and growing farther apart, could be metaphorical for tearing something apart, which would aid and focus the magic if it was used to destroy an object or move to things farther apart. Also note, however, that music which has a negative emotional impact is probably having a negative (not necessarily evil, there are just wars and just punishments) physical impact.

Philadelphia wrote:
In the same way, people can also "zone out" sounds as they get used to them. Some people can completely ignore their surroundings and focus only on what they're doing. Can a "magic" lose effect if a person has become used to the sound? Can certain people ignore "magic" going on around them completely if their focus is elsewhere? And what of deaf people?

Or are you bypassing the act of hearing altogether? Does the music do its work, regardless of whether or not anyone is listening?


It could only loose the emotional impact. On the flip side, ignoring the music could make your mind vulnerable to it. Music has a tendency to sneak up on a person.

Although they could be taught to use an instrument, deaf people simply won't have the same level of power, as they have never experienced the emotional impact of music and cannot sense it's "essence". On the flip side, blind musicians are much more powerful. (You'll notice that blind people are more aware of sound in general.) Deaf people experience minor persecution, while the blind are held in high regard.

The music could work if no one were listening (except the user) but time when the average person would use magic alone are going to be rare. On the other hand, many artisans (painters, sculptors, smiths, and other craftsmen) probably prefer to be alone while they sing over their work, as an interruption or another strong music could disrupt their own music.

Philadelphia wrote:
The idea of "words as music" struck out to me. There is a powerful world you can explore if you look into the effect of words. The Bible abounds with proverbs and instructions on the tongue, the fire which no man can tame, either working wonders or destroying lives. By translating that into "magic" and its more literal effects, you can teach or imply those morals with great power.


Exactly. Our's is a world where you must use your words very carefully, this world doubly so. A careless word that hurts, combined with the music qualities of language, could cause more damage than normal, destroying a relationship or even prompting someone to take their life. (Although they'd still be responsible as they were open to the negativity.) Likewise, the properly timed and chosen word can have a very powerful effect to boost moral, convince to make a certain choice, etc. Words are very powerful, and easy for Satan to abuse.

Philadelphia wrote:
I like the idea of this premise. I love music, and I am aware of the effect sound can have. I think it would be interesting to see these effects represented more literally in a fantasy world. If most of the "magic" is fairly drastic (making very obvious and sudden changes in the surroundings), I agree that you will have to define what sounds truly produce an effect, lest things get chaotic and confusing. But on the flipside, I think it would also be interesting if all sound had a natural effect, however subtle. You could show, in a very beautiful way, how even the most mundane sounds bring depth to our world. Trees in the breeze, waves on the shore, someone's laugh. You wouldn't want, say, people turning into frogs (for an exaggerated example) every time someone laughed. But the sound, in a very small way, could bring color, lift spirits, lighten the air... And you could still show how music, if used expertly and purposefully, can wield a greater effect. Just a thought.


Random sounds can't really produce an effect. Noise must be guided by the users intent. However, some noises, the wind in the trees, the trickle of a stream, still have the most minor power, because the person who hears also has a small power over the magic, because of their ability to be open, closed, receptive, or dismissive, to the music. The same stream could have two different impacts on different people, comforting one, while irritating the other. Guarding your mind from bad thoughts or even just extreme thoughts is very important.

Thanks for posting, you've helped me form my thoughts better.

Throughout the book, I'll foreshadow a lot of references to a "higher music" (a music composed by God) which still permeates the universe, enforcing His Sovereignty, which will ultimately banish "noise" (the lack of music, and a reference to evil) from the world and fill everything with God's will. This a reference both to His pervasive will, and His Omnipresence, because the higher music is ultimately His Spirit, permeating the universe, sustaining, creating, destroying, and bending it to his will. Likewise, references will be made to "letting His Music guide your heart" which is a way of expressing the idea of letting Christ guide your heart.

I will be quite clear that the Music is not the sum of all things, it is not a Music created by the universe, but is the Music which created the universe, the expression of God's nature and will. (Although it is not His Person.)

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I am Ebed Eleutheros, redeemed from slavery in sin to the bond-service of my Master, Jesus Christ.

Redemption is to be purchased, to have a price paid. So I was redeemed from my master sin, and from justice, which demanded my death. For He paid the price of sin by becoming sin, and met the demands of justice by dying for us.

For all men have a master. But a man cannot have two masters. For he will love one and hate the other. You cannot serve God and sin. So I die to the old, as He died, and I am resurrected to the new, as He was resurrected.

Note: Ebed is Hebrew for bondsman, Eleutheros is Greek for unrestrained (not a slave).


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 Post subject: Re: Music as Magic
PostPosted: October 20th, 2010, 9:32 pm 
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Very intriguing. You've put a lot of thought into this. It will be interesting to see how you weave this into a story! Let us know when you start writing it?

As a random idea, it would be interesting to follow (at least in part) a deaf person in this world. They'd have a curious take, and they already have a built-in struggle: they're despised. A deaf person would make a strong secondary character.

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 Post subject: Re: Music as Magic
PostPosted: October 20th, 2010, 9:57 pm 
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They would!

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 Post subject: Re: Music as Magic
PostPosted: October 21st, 2010, 10:11 am 
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Great...now I want to read a story about a deaf person in this world, yet I know no one will ever write it. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Music as Magic
PostPosted: October 21st, 2010, 12:48 pm 
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Philadelphia wrote:
As a random idea, it would be interesting to follow (at least in part) a deaf person in this world. They'd have a curious take, and they already have a built-in struggle: they're despised. A deaf person would make a strong secondary character.


Well, it's possible for a certain supporting character to be deaf...it hasn't occurred to me before and I'd have to do some rudimentary work on a sign language, in addition to the languages I'm building. (although certain deaf people have been taught to speak our languages, these languages rely so much on tonality and nasal pronunciation that it would be impossible for them to reproduce sounds they haven't heard.

The main character's mother was blind, and incredibly beautiful, which gives the hero a high social standing, and an early training in music and a special talent of his mother's: the ability to create abstract imagery in a person's mind. (The imagery being full of meaning, of course, which combined with the music, could be used to accompany spoken word in order to make a though very clear to the hearer.)

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I am Ebed Eleutheros, redeemed from slavery in sin to the bond-service of my Master, Jesus Christ.

Redemption is to be purchased, to have a price paid. So I was redeemed from my master sin, and from justice, which demanded my death. For He paid the price of sin by becoming sin, and met the demands of justice by dying for us.

For all men have a master. But a man cannot have two masters. For he will love one and hate the other. You cannot serve God and sin. So I die to the old, as He died, and I am resurrected to the new, as He was resurrected.

Note: Ebed is Hebrew for bondsman, Eleutheros is Greek for unrestrained (not a slave).


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 Post subject: Re: Music as Magic
PostPosted: October 21st, 2010, 5:57 pm 
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You know what would be quite fantastic and cruel? Make a character go deaf, whether suddenly or gradually, during the course of the book. Especially one that was (a) important to the MC and/or (b) had a "good life" ahead of him before the onset of deafness. Just a thought.

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 Post subject: Re: Music as Magic
PostPosted: October 22nd, 2010, 10:43 am 
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Philadelphia wrote:
You know what would be quite fantastic and cruel? Make a character go deaf, whether suddenly or gradually, during the course of the book. Especially one that was (a) important to the MC and/or (b) had a "good life" ahead of him before the onset of deafness. Just a thought.


Great idea. (Although I think I'll change it a bit. A character goes deaf, and pursues demonic power to make up for his loss of music.)

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I am Ebed Eleutheros, redeemed from slavery in sin to the bond-service of my Master, Jesus Christ.

Redemption is to be purchased, to have a price paid. So I was redeemed from my master sin, and from justice, which demanded my death. For He paid the price of sin by becoming sin, and met the demands of justice by dying for us.

For all men have a master. But a man cannot have two masters. For he will love one and hate the other. You cannot serve God and sin. So I die to the old, as He died, and I am resurrected to the new, as He was resurrected.

Note: Ebed is Hebrew for bondsman, Eleutheros is Greek for unrestrained (not a slave).


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 Post subject: Re: Music as Magic
PostPosted: October 30th, 2010, 5:07 pm 
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I am in total agreement with the call for a deaf character lol... that could be very interesting in a world where music is magic. The deaf guy no one really takes serious, could end up saving the day.


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 Post subject: Re: Music as Magic
PostPosted: October 31st, 2010, 1:16 pm 
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Wow. I'm so interested already that it almost isn't fair.:P So how would deaf people survive in a world like this? Would they be almost entirely helpless?

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Nessa- She's given up the veil, the vows she'd sworn, abandoned every effort to conform. Without a word to anyone she's gone her way alone, a dove escaping back into the storm.

Nolan- And though I don't understand why this happened, I know that I will when I look back someday, and see how you've brought beauty from ashes, and made me as gold purified through the flames.

Azriel- And who do you think you are, running round leaving scars, collecting your jar of hearts, and tearing love apart? You're gonna catch a cold from the ice inside your soul, so don't come back to me. Don't come back at all...


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 Post subject: Re: Music as Magic
PostPosted: October 31st, 2010, 2:08 pm 
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Willow Wenial wrote:
Wow. I'm so interested already that it almost isn't fair.:P So how would deaf people survive in a world like this? Would they be almost entirely helpless?


No. We get along fine without magic. Same thing here. They just wouldn't have any cultural respect.

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I am Ebed Eleutheros, redeemed from slavery in sin to the bond-service of my Master, Jesus Christ.

Redemption is to be purchased, to have a price paid. So I was redeemed from my master sin, and from justice, which demanded my death. For He paid the price of sin by becoming sin, and met the demands of justice by dying for us.

For all men have a master. But a man cannot have two masters. For he will love one and hate the other. You cannot serve God and sin. So I die to the old, as He died, and I am resurrected to the new, as He was resurrected.

Note: Ebed is Hebrew for bondsman, Eleutheros is Greek for unrestrained (not a slave).


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 Post subject: Re: Music as Magic
PostPosted: October 31st, 2010, 2:56 pm 
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Ooh, I like this idea! I especially liked the part about "They sang over their work."

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