Hey everyone!

I am so excited to be a part of this. I couldn't believe my eyes that there was a group of young Christian writers like this just waiting here, that I hadn't heard of for as long as I didn't hear of you. Which was several years too long.

So anyway, my writer name is Karthmin Aretani, and my title is Kharturai, which means creator of Khartur, which is the 'chosen nation' in my fantasy world.
Finally, no one's going to laugh at that type of introduction!!!! This is a great place.

I have loved writing fiction of all kinds since I was about 12 or 13, especially fantasy. All that time, it has grown on me until now, just after graduation, I am positive that I want to make books, writing, publishing - the whole deal - a very large part of my life. I want to get into the publishing industry (preferably Christian fiction publishing), but my dream of publishing 'that world-changing book' is still with me.

Not only do I love writing, but I love writing well and strive to excel in the literary art-form. I feel like many young Christian writers, for whatever reason, don't feel like they have to live up to the artistic standards of good art. So I'm so glad to find a group of like-minded Christian artists who desire to excel in every way in this field. You don't know how wonderful that is!

Just so you can get to know me literarily (as far as what I have written/am writing), I'll introduce my brainchildren here a little and on the appropriate forums as I'm able.

My biggest, firstest endeavor is a fantasy series which centers around the good kingdom of Khartur and it's struggles against evil. Pretty straightforward fantasy, right? What I have written so far is on my site http://www.talesofkhartur.weebly.com if you would like to read it (note: most of it is a year old or over, so I've developed since I wrote it).
There are several different races/cultures of humans in the world, a sort of angelic/elfish/fairy folk that has my own twist to them, dwarves (of course), and I'm sure somewhere along the line I'll run across some pretty crazy beasts. Oh, and of course there is the devil and God and angels and demons. Only the demons really place a big place in the story, though...
Because I want to be realistic even in my fantasy (it's fantasy mainly because it's all it's own world), I keep magic to a minimum, unless it's real witchcraft/demon possession, which only the bad guys practice. Sorry!

Second in line would probably be a biblio-historical fiction story about Noah building the ark. It almost falls in the realm of sci-fi because the tech is really advanced, but it's all in a historical setting and there's no space travel or anything. But still, it's got a lot of potential to capture people, I believe (of course I think that, though...). That I know of, it's not very common to approach the antediluvian world from a high-tech perspective, so I'm hoping to re-imagine what we all think is an old, already-known story in a new, exciting way.

Third is a truly fantasy story that I don't have a ton developed for, but is still really intriguing to me. Dragons, shape-changers, magicians fighting the dragons.....a bunch of really fun stuff.

I also have a futuristic dystopia story about a full-immersion (Oculus Rift style) video-game system's national contest, set in an anarchic future America (you don't see anarchy much in dystopia...it's usually totalitarian).

I have written (tho not published) a handful of short stories as well, but since I've already written them, I'll introduce them at a different time. The projects I just outlined were just to give you a taste of what I'll put out on the appropriate forums for everyone to pick apart, ask questions, and offer suggestions about.
As I browse the immense forums and get to know you all and your worlds better, I hope to be able to do the same for you.

Inon areth athelda Ainatar,

Karthmin

PS - Tried to submit this and it said I had too many smilies...I was like, "What??! There's no such thing as too many smilies!" Haha!

It says "Quick Reply"! 0.o Is there such a thing with you, Ka?
You are a great writer and editor!

And thanks for being the final encouragement for me to get an account here. ;P Like you said, "I'm so excited to be a part of this!"

P.S. I will write up my Interduce Yourself thread/page tomorrow sometime.

Hello and welcome, Karthmin!

Glad you found us! Holy Worlds has only been around for a few years, but we already have a size-worthy community of writerly types. You said you're interested in the publishing business; have you ever been published (self-pub or otherwise) yourself?
I have considered the idea of sci-fi in a pre-Flood era myself, but never actually written anything in the area. I have emphasized worldbuilding in the traditional fantasy worlds; I've crafted up probably half a dozen different universe ideas since I started writing in the genre when I was 12. (That manuscript is being kept secret... it was awful...). I think you'll find a lot of Fantasy worldbuilders over on the Fantasy side of the forum, happy to help you develop those first and third worlds for yourself.

An anarchic dystopia does sound interesting, especially if you find a zone between totalitarian dystopian and standard post-apocalyptic world. Have you ever read Olympus? I only ever read the first few chapters of this book, and I think it would be called YA Middle-grade or something like that, but it also is about a full-immersion video game, though not about professional contests in such.

Hope to see you around our forums!

Thanks so much for the warm welcome, Reiyan!

No, I have not been published, nor have I self-published anything. I would like to (what writer doesn't?!) but I actually haven't pursued being published yet because I feel I'm not quite ready for that, and besides I don't have much finished.

I've been exploring and this place is really quite large! It'll take a while to get into all the great nooks and crannies here, but I'm totally having a great time doing it and meeting all the other HWers in the process.

Cool! I wonder how many people have thought of antediluvian sci-fi....probably quite a few, actually. So far I'm just another one of those thinkers, but I really look forward to finishing this story idea and getting it published in novel-form. I think it really has a lot of potential, but I need to do a LOT of research in order to make it really good. I think it's a bit beyond my skill-level at the present, so I'm sorta falling back onto continual worldbuilding for the present.

Wow. That's a lot of worldbuilding! I won't ask to see that first manuscript. I know exactly what you're talking about.

Yeah - that zone between totalitarianism and anarchy - that's exactly what I want. If it can be compared to anything historical, it would be like the States during the time when they were under the Articles of Confederation. Maybe even looser than that.
I haven't read Olympus. It looks pretty cool. I'll have to check it out.

I hope some of the longer-term forum team members get around to reading your post, because you inadvertently included a never-gets-old inside joke from a long time ago...

It is a very large place! Many of the nooks and crannies are quiet these days; we mostly congregate on what the website calls the Fantasy section of the site. We moved everything active there a while ago for simplicity (and may have just created confusion... welcome to how clever we are!). There are a few chat rooms laying around, too, mostly this one. If you find another one, well... that is just one of the wonderful mysteries of this place. There are often friendly people there who will answer questions. And apparently dangerous cybermen... because the last time I went in there I was turned into one (strange things happen in the chat room.... there is a wonderful thread somewhere called "Chat Room Mishaps" or something like that... many strange things have happened there).

The worldbuilding was strong with that universe... though weak compared to anything that I would call really good quality stuff. I had lots of unimportant details and not enough meta questions answered, but now I struggle more with the opposite, coming up with great ideas for whole universes and never writing history or cultures or squat diddle.

I think a few chapters of Olympus were available free somewhere. That's why I only know the beginning. Seemed promising, but I am a stingy miser and don't figure I will ever buy that, haha.

Merry Christmas to you as well!

(Moderator note: this thread has been moved here from the Citadel.)

Hello, Karthmin! Welcome to Holy Worlds, I am glad you found your way here!

I like the writer name you have chosen, does it have a particular meaning? Love the fact that you have a title that ties into your world! Definitely look forward to hearing more about that. World building is definitely one of my favourite aspects of writing. Unfortunately my full time work leaves me with little time to write, but I still manage to scribble some content down occasionally!

I look forward to getting to know you.

Welcome to Holy Worlds, Karthmin! It's been nice seeing you around the forum.

@Reiyan: Oh, really?! What was it? As you said, inside joke....may I be initiated?

Thanks so much for explaining things. That clears up a lot of things. A lot. I was wondering what was used for what, if they were all the same...stuff like that. Thank you.

It seems like no matter where you're at as a writer, you always have certain problems to deal with... But that's why we like it, right? Because it's always a challenge - and the end result is a reward (hopefully...).

@Mistress Kidh: Thanks for moving this over here!

@Lady Elanor: Thank you! I'm glad to be here.
Ahhhh...the name. Yes, it does have meaning. In rough terms of equivalency, it means the same thing as my 'real' name. If you've into elvish, another equivalent is Suiauthon.
The language Karthmin is from is one which I made up myself. I think a language nerd I know took my dictionary and made up names for myself and my friends from it...so kudos to him for the name. (He wouldn't mind being called a nerd....)
I will definitely get my world up and running somewhere on here as soon as I can. I think I have enough to qualify for my own (is it subforum?) niche on the HW user-created worlds forum.
I look forward to getting to know you and all the other great people running around here!

@Jonathan: Thanks!

Areth (peace/comfort),

Karthmin

It's a funny thing. My name is spelled with two E's. But no one ever seems to get that, including a number of Captains and former Captains... They all spell it Reiyan. So don't worry; I've stopped even editing it out, and you have good company in fancying my name to fit better with an A.

Ooooooh! Aha!

My deepest apologies, Captain Reiyen.

Welcome to Holy Worlds! I've only been here for a few months, but I have found it so nice to interact with others who are similar to me in their interests. I hope you have a great time here!

Oh, and it's also nice to come across somebody developing a world without magic or very advanced technology but still with spiritual things going on. I virtually always take the same route in my worldbuilding.

So, what are some of your favorite books? And what are some books that you consider models for the good art you want to produce?

Welcome Kharturai! Fellow worldbuilder and Holy Worlder!

Ka! (or any of the other peeps who might know)

How did you change your avatar? I have tried everything and can't figure it out.

I say, that is a good question. I went into the UCP and we don't have a gallery there... hrmph... now you've got me digging. This information should be somewhere...

This is how I did it:

1) At the top left, under the "Holy Worlds" logo, click on "0 new messages" (though of course it'll be different if you do have new messages!)
2) Now, on the left side, click on "Profile"
3) Once that loads, click "Edit avatar" on the left side

Worked for me.

Thank you!

Ahh, of course. It's the Citadel link in the UCP that's messing things up. There is more sorcery in this technology than first I thought! Thanks, now I just need to dig up how to add your own custom images into that gallery...

Thanks Blayne!

@sheesania: I have had a great time so far and I'm sure it will continue. Thanks for the welcome!

Neat! Sometimes I wonder if it counts as fantasy if there's no magic... ...but I'm staying away from magic in this world because it just never found a way to slip its way in (except in the ideas I have of the second series, in which the dwarven race uses a 'magic' of sorts that is technically scientific but unexplainable to them).
I also like to stay away from magic because literarily it changes the type of character you can write. A magic-using MC will never have the same rapport that a 'normal' MC can get with your readers. Case in point is the way Tolkien told the LotR. Almost always from the POV of a hobbit. That is why elves, high men, wizards seem so different and 'high'. Because we're always looking at them from the normal POV of a hobbit. The story wouldn't have the same flavor if it was told from the POV of Aragorn.
And thematically, an ordinary person who changes the world through ordinary heroism is way better than the big powerful hero going out to rescue the world.
I mean, telling a story with magic-users as the POV character(s) can be done well and readers can really feel with that character, but I feel like it's just harder to do it well, and you will definitely give a completely different feel.

And there's just a lot of conflict surrounding the use of magic in fantasy in a lot of Christian circles.

Hmmm. Books I like/want to emulate. That's a huge question, deserving a huge answer, but I'll do my best to organize my as-yet-amorphous thoughts in as concise as answer as possible. (Sorry, I have a tendency towards wordiness at times... )

In no particular order (except the first):

The world of JRR Tolkien, to begin with, tops the location of my favorite books.

Lewis' Space Trilogy was interesting and I could definitely do with a re-readthrough of those. I think I'd get more out of them now than when I read them a few years ago. Chronicles of Narnia is good, but every time I re-read them, they feel so childish. Which is great because they were written for kids. But that's not what I want to write.

George Polivka's Trophy Chase Trilogy was really good (he's a Christian author).

Crime and Punishment is a great classic that has the Christian artistry that I want to emulate, though perhaps more strongly than Dostoevsky does.

War and Peace is another great piece of art that contains the realism of character and setting and even life, which I want to attain in my writing as well (though perhaps more excitingly )

I just recently read one of Ted Dekker's works and really liked it a lot. I hope to read more of him...

Orson Scott Card (Ender's Game, anyone?) is a really great author. His stories and characters are always amazing literature, though he's definitely not a Christian author. Language, etc...things I wouldn't include in my writing. Buuuuut, he's such a great story-teller that I can't help wanting to emulate him. His works are intellectual and thought-provoking, in addition to being entertainment, which is fiction doing what it's supposed to do.

The Hunger Games, Divergent, and Mazerunner trilogies were all good literature, but obviously not Christian. Incidentally, I've taken to writing in first-person present because of Suzanne Collins (Hunger Games). Out of all of them, I liked the Mazerunner series best, but the Hunger Games were better written. They all have problems for Christian readers, but they were good stories.

Brandon Sanderson is another good modern-day author. Elantris, Steelheart (came out last year or early in this), Mistborn series, Way of Kings (the first two are the only one's I've read). He's pretty clean, and he's a good writer as well.

I've read the Ranger's Apprentice series and the Brotherband Chronicles by John Flanagan. He's pretty clean, and his stories were okay, but he lacks the literary artistry that I crave in books. He's like one of those non-writer writers who got big fast. He's always mind-jumping, sometimes intrudes into the story mildly, has okay characters (but except for the first few books, they don't change much), and well, I could go on with the mechanics that I don't like....

I've read all of RM Ballantyne's works, as well as the majority of GA Henty's works - both of which aren't that great as far as artistic literature goes, but were pretty good to start out on. I mean, they have a solid Christian perspective, which says quite a lot.

I like King of the Wing by Marguerite Henry (and her other stories are good as well...for horse stories).

Um...I'm trying to think of more books....I've been reading pretty much non-stop since I learned how, so that's a big task.

As far as the type of stories I want to write? I want to write a classic, essentially. One of those stories that captures much of what it means to be human, what it means to live in God's world. I want to write something that can apply to people of all times. I want to write with intellectual themes. I want to make my readers think about the basic life questions (Why am I here? Where did I come from? What is my purpose?). I also want to answer those questions through the artistry of good literature.
I want to teach through entertainment, which is, I believe, the true end of all art. I want to capture beauty, which I believe is truth in little things. In the simple unity of flowers, in the complex minutiae of razor-edged details that make up the whole of it, in the perfection of each part working with the whole.
I want to influence people away from looking at life as a stream to float down and instead examine it closely. Like, what is my purpose? Am I just supposed to fit into the web of life, find my niche, keep it going in whatever way I can? Or is there more? Is my life about me? Or is it about others? Why am I even here? How am I to live? What do I base my life on? What I'm feeling? Or what is objectively true? Self-preservation? Or love and friendship?

I want to present my Christian worldview through writing. Not just in telling good stories, but teaching people through them, influencing people to think about what it means to live in this world of ours as a human made in God's image.

For these reasons, I have decided that the present time will be one of preparation, because I can't write in that caliber right now. I'm not up to that level. So I'm going to keep writing, keep developing my worldview, and keep looking for ways to artistically weave great themes into my stories.

There! That's more about my literary aspirations.

Areth,

Ka

Yes!!

You get it!

If you like both Crime and Punishment and the works of Brandon Sanderson - if you want to emulate both Tolkien and the authors of the Hunger Games and Divergent - yes!

Combining good literary style and entertainment, good fun and also meaning - I'm not quite sure how to put it, but that's just the sort of thing I love to read and just the sort of thing I want to write. A book with the excitement of a good Brandon Sanderson novel but also the current of truth permeating the whole story ala Crime and Punishment - yes! And from your post I get a sense that you may be aiming for the same thing.

I, however, am not willing to commit myself to writing seriously enough to really aim for producing a classic; I applaud you for be willing to aim so high, and for working towards that goal even though you know it's a long way off!

Okay, now you've gotten me really excited. I'm sure that plenty of other people on this forum want to write that same kind of story, but you're the first person I've really gotten that sense from.


Well, from the posts of yours I saw about wyrms and dryglex, it seems that you have plenty of fantastical elements even if you don't have magic per se. My main fantasy world (Sheesania) doesn't even have that; it's awfully similar to Earth.


You know, that's a good point. Now that I think about it, in most of the fantasy stories I've read involving magic, the main characters either can't use magic or are limited in what they can do with it (whether that's because of their lack of knowledge or just because the magic system itself is limited). And I personally sometimes find myself trying to force people so ordinary into the role of hero that it becomes rather implausible that they would ever succeed.


Oo! Yay! Another Sanderson reader! His books are my current only-partly-sensible obsession. (Sensible because they ARE pretty good and I'm learning quite a bit about plotting from his work, but non-sensible because there are many other writers out there who are more worthy of my devotion.) And by the way, in my opinion the Mistborn books are even better than Steelheart and Elantris...so if you enjoyed those books, you may want to check out Mistborn. My sister and I are halfway through the second Mistborn book and really enjoying it. We got to bed a little late last night because of that book...


I hadn't heard before of this series; I found it on Amazon, read some reviews, etc. and it looks intriguing. What have you enjoyed about it?

Okay, I think I've said everything I want to say, but I may be back later to add something I forgot.

Harrumph.

I wrote out a post and clicked Save, but I guess my computer didn't listen. So now I'm back to a blank reply box again.

Anyway, I'm glad you're so excited to see someone else excited about writing the kind of art that both entertains and (more importantly, imo) teaches.

I will say, though, that writing a 'classic' is really just a dream. Probably a bit childish, given the amount of writing I've done (actually not THAT much, when you put it in perspective). But it is true that I've sort of taken a long-haul perspective about writing.
And really, the only reason I want to write a classic is so that our culture would be changed - wake up to the reality of God's world that we live in. So really, I would be pretty satisfied to help other people write that type of literature, which is why I'm looking into publishing.

About the wyrms and dryglex. Wellllll...that's the only world that I have magic in. Incidentally, it's almost the only world I've posted about on here yet. Naugil culture falls into my other world, in which there is no magic...but I haven't posted anything else about that world yet. *cringe* Sorry!!!


The Mistborn books. Are. Awesome. I can say that with confidence having only finished the first of the trilogy just last night...er...well...maybe it was this morning. Honestly, you DON'T want to know what time it was when I finished. I just, well, didn't keep track of the time, I guess.
I have a habit of doing that with books. *shakes head*
(So far, though, I like Steelheart better. It's not so bulky. But then again, it's not as intellectual, which is something I like... Oh well, they're both great. )

It's been a couple years since I read the Trophy Chase Trilogy, so I don't remember everything. I just liked how it was pretty good literature all set within a Christian perspective. It was like it mixed perfectly well. Like totally awesome fantasy, pretty deep storylines, and on top of that all from a Christian perspective. It was pretty good. Again, though, it's been a couple years, so I may have increased my literary pickiness by now. I don't know. I'd have to go back and read them again to get you a real real answer.

If anyone has other questions about me personally, feel free to ask them! I don't know what all to just blurb onto here, so ask away!

Areth.

I'm glad you're here, Karthmin.

I like this. I'm glad you're trying to do it. I think a lot of authors.. want to make money, or want to make someone happy, or want to write for catharsis, or want to entertain people. That's not at all bad. But it's so nice that there is someone that wants to make people think, too.. about big things. Real big things.

Coleman Luck said that you can't write a good book until you're fifty.. or something similar to that. So I get what you mean by being in preparation. That's what I feel like too.

The Space Trilogy, War and Peace, and Crime and Punishment are some of the books I like best too. Have you ever read anything by Dickens? Or George Macdonald? (I don't think you would have read anything of Macdonald's, I'm just hoping.)

Do you have any big interests aside from writing?

Glad to be here!

Yeah, I get what you mean. I feel like our current status of literature (at least mainstream literature) is just to entertain. Granted, there are still deeper themes in most modern stories (it's not like they're totally empty), but the carry-over of insights from book to real life aren't really there, and they should be.
Our culture has fallen from the high purpose of art, which is to teach through entertainment. At least that's what I think.

Haha! Wow. That means I've got, what?...just over 31 years left to prepare. I hope I've done something useful by then.
I think he's pretty close to the truth there. We don't fully understand life as young people - even if we're really mature as young adults, we still don't have the life experience that allows for a much more well-defined and simultaneously broad perspective.

Dickens? I've read A Christmas Carol (who hasn't? ). Also A Tale of Two Cities. Aaaand, I think that's it. I think I know the basic plot of Great Expectations but haven't ever read it.

MacDonald? Yes, I have! I've read the Curdie and the Princess books (are there three of them, with Lena the cat or something in the third one?). I like the first two. I've also read Phantastes, which I liked a lot. It really captured a lot of the faerie feel. And while he's a little theologically confusing (to me), I really liked the book. That's actually my favorite of his works. I've also read...let me think of the name...the one about the guy who's blind and his dad is a drunk and....?...ahhhh. Good old Google. Sir Gibbie. I forget the whole of it, but I think I liked it when I read it like 8 years ago.

Other main interests of mine include theology and soccer. I have thought about going to seminary after I get my Bachelor's degree (which I'm beginning almost as we speak), but I'm not totally sure. I don't think I'm called to be a minister but I might do seminary anyway just because it would be really good for me and enable me to serve the church even if I wasn't a pastor.

Soccer is basically one of the best sports there are, so I love it. Obviously. I've always played and always liked it.

Um, I like the outdoors, but I'm not an outdoor person. I mean, hikes are great. Rock-climbing is like the best thing ever. Biking is fun. The outdoors are amazing. But for some reason I'm not proactive about spending time outside. I'm a bit of an idealistic dreamer who could sit on a couch all day thinking up ways we need to combat our culture or something like that, or how to prove the existence of God, or of morals, or of absolute truth....and I don't tend to come back to good old planet earth without outside help.

And I'm an introvert, so that doesn't help that tendency. INFP according to Myers-Briggs, if you care to know.

I think that sums it.

Oh, and I would love doing parkour or being a stunt man, but I haven't and amn't. (Heh. I like that double contraction. Amn't.)

Areth.

Augh, I hate it when that happens...This has happened to me so many times thanks to my bad Internet connection that now I usually quickly copy my whole post before trying to post it - just a quick Ctrl+A, Ctrl+C, and then if something goes wrong I can paste the text of my post back into the reply box again. So if you want to be paranoid like me, you can always do that.


Oh, but I think it's great to have an ideal to look to even if you know you probably won't ever reach it. It's good to be pragmatic, but it's also good to have a strong idea of what you're aiming for. I've recently been studying American government, and I read a book about four different Christian perspectives on the American government and how it should be changed. Three out of the four perspectives were presenting pictures of an ideal American government that I think would be virtually impossible to attain. But it was still helpful to present them to put forward what the ideal was, before getting down to the nitty-gritty of what American Christian citizens and politicians should actually try to do.

Indeed, the one perspective that didn't present an ideal, that instead basically said, "Well, given the actual situation in society today, let's figure out a Biblical form of government that could be applied with minimal fuss" - that position got a lot of criticism from proponents of other perspectives because it was focusing too much on just dealing with reality. Similarly, I would hope that people would criticize me if I said, "Well, I think the best literature has so-and-so and such-and-such, but given the current state of the market, I'm going to write a different way so I can sell my books with minimum fuss."

Um, wow. That was a big rant. Sorry. I've had very little conversation with anybody out of my family this week, so I guess I'm feeling talkative.


Well, I look forward to seeing whatever else you do post!


Hehe. You, my friend, are experiencing what is known in my culture (by which I mean, er, my sister and I's culture) as the Sanderson Ending Glow. We have observed that it is impossible to escape for several days after finishing a Sanderson book, and has a tendency to produce huge smiles and vacant stares at random intervals on the face of the subject experiencing this phenomenon. The subject will also have trouble staying on any other topic for a prolonged period of time, and if asked directly about the book in question they will probably gush incoherently. Once a few days has passed, the subject may think that he or she has recovered, but the effects will still linger for another week or so, depending on how strong this particular ending glow was. We have found that the only way to treat it is to read negative reviews on Amazon or Goodreads of the book that produced the glow, but this has varying efficacy based on the book, the subject, and the reviews in question.



Anyways, I'm glad you enjoyed it!! I'm still not done with The Well of Ascension, but as far as I can judge objectively at this point I think it brought the intellectual and philosophical underpinnings of the story up a notch. Or in other words, you need to continue the series at some point.


I did enjoy Steelheart, but it wasn't my favorite - it's just not my favorite genre and style of book. But the ending was pretty awesome. Out of nowhere, yet so obvious...

Oh, and the sequel was released a few days ago. Are you planning to read it? (I will, but next month; my sister and I have a whole planned-out schedule of when we're going to read certain books, so that we can spread out the fun of experiencing them. We're crazy...)


I'll see if I can get them sometime when I have a library handy. I'm always up for some clean, entertaining fantasy even if it isn't terribly literary.


I wonder if this is partly because literacy and reading is so much more widespread these days - you don't have to be as motivated or get as high a level of education to be able to read a novel. So your average reader today is less educated and motivated than your average reader, say, 200 years ago, and so is less likely to want and enjoy a more intellectual, layered book. Just a thought, though...


READ GREAT EXPECTATIONS! It's one of my favorite books of all time. So funny, so well-plotted, such good characters - and so deep and so moving. It's also pretty tightly plotted and fast-moving, unlike more rambling Dickens books like Pickwick Papers or Oliver Twist. Yes, there are tons of descriptions padding the plot, but they're hilarious.


What's your major? (If you have one!)

So, what got you into writing?

(And whew, just barely made the smiley limit!)

That's what I do too.... Our connection usually only is good once in five minutes or so.

I guess it actually depends on your reason for writing. I wouldn't criticize someone for writing something just to make money... and if you're writing to make money, sometimes you would do things you don't consider the best literature because it will be easier to publish or to make people want to read it. Sometimes, making money really is a higher priority than writing a classic. Kindof like when Doyle killed Sherlock Holmes because he didn't like him, and then brought him back again because he needed money for some debts. I mean, if I were a blue-collar worker who was trying to support my family, I wouldn't refuse to work on a certain building project because the builder could only afford to buy materials that were ugly and inefficient.

But if your base intention is to write a really good book, then it's different.

Yeah... me too. o.o

Mhm.

Aw, that's awesome. I have read all of his books, but not many people seem to have read anything of his. He wrote another fantasy, called 'At the Back of the North Wind'. It's sort of a children's book, but it's very nice. And Lillith.. eh, I haven't read it for so long I don't know what to think of it.. * cocks head *

Yeah, there's two books about the princess--'The Princess and the Goblins', and 'The Princess and Curdie'. The second one has Lena. I love Phantastes too.... It's very strange. MacDonald isn't just confusing theologically, he's confusing in several ways. But mostly theologically. I don't know.. it is so nice, to read someone who really thinks about things, and who really believes in God and Christ, that I don't mind when I disagree with some of the things he says, or don't understand some of the things he says. It's good to think about it. And he really does want you to think about it.

Oh, and 'The Portent' is a short-ish story of his that is also fantasy.. well, fantastical. It's very interesting. Several of his short stories are fantasy.

I like Sir Gibbie too.

Oh, mm, I haven't actually read that one. I enjoyed David Copperfield so much that I started trying to read through all of his books he ever wrote, but I got stuck after a while when I started on 'Bleak House', because I got halfway through, stopped for awhile, and couldn't find my place again because the plot was so rambly.

I'll have to read Great Expectations, then, too. I think I'll drop 'Bleak House' for awhile, until I've forgotten all of it and can just start from the beginning again.

Understanding theology is pretty essential for writing a classic, anyway, so I think seminary's a good idea even if you don't preach. That's cool.

Cool... I'm ISTP.

Yeah. * curious *

Me too.

Ahhhh! That's ingenious. I think I'll do that in the future. I think what happened last time was I just forgot the two-step process required to save a draft. Silly mistake.

I can see what you're saying, Mistress Kidh. That's kind of why I don't want to be a self-supporting author. I want to have something else be my main source of income so that I'm not tempted to fall back on what I know will make money...rather than what I know I truly want to write.

@sheesania: Yes. You're right. An ideal is way better than being 'realistic' and accepting that things will never quite match up to that ideal. That's even true of our lives as Christians on this earth. We strive for perfection in Christ, even though we know we won't attain it until He returns and glorifies us (or until we die).
So in all areas of life we have to strive for that perfect ideal, even though we know we won't reach it entirely. Interesting dynamic.
Sorry, kinda started rambling philosophically. But that's just me.

I talked to Reiyen and I'll be getting a subforum in Realms Beyond soon, where I can put all my stuff about Airamiel!

Haha! Sanderson Ending Glow. That's a pretty accurate description. Though I'm not quite so much of a fan-boy as all that.
I'm in the midst of the Well of Ascension right now (my sister got the series for Christmas, so I'm reading them after she does....and she reads slower than me. ). It's pretty good.
I think I know how it works out in the end, but I'm just not sure HOW. Sanderson's good at that. You can read the plot really well and know exactly where he's going to end up with the story, but you never know HOW exactly he's going to take you there, so you have to keep reading to find out.
Yes, I'm definitely planning on reading Firefight. For sure.

@Mistress Kidh: I have heard of At the Back of the North Wind, and I know it's very strange, but I've never read it. One of my older brothers read it. I think he liked it.
Yes, MacDonald isn't just weird theologically. But you're right. It's nice having to work through his theological oddities rather than filtering out someone's totally wrong perspective.

Great Expectations. One of my brothers and my sister both read it, and they didn't like it all that much. But I guess with such a glowing recommendation, I have to at least give it more than the time of day next time I come across it. Who knows? I might get totally hooked.

Wow! That's a big goal to read everything Dickens ever wrote. I don't know if I could stomach that much from one person. I need more variation than that, I guess.

You're right. Understanding theology is essential to writing the type of literature I want to write. Actually, understanding theology should be an essential part of any and all true education, but that's a story for another day...

ISTP...neat. What exactly do the initials stand for? I know the first and last because I have those, too, but I can't place the others.

My major? Right now I'm thinking of Creative Writing as my major, but that may change. I might go for Literature as well. Having done absolutely none of the degree yet, I can't say for sure. But right now I'm going for Creative Writing.

What got me into writing? Reading. Other than that I really don't know what got me writing. I mean, words have always attracted me. I was eager to learn to read, eager to continue reading on my own, eager to explore the new worlds that words can open up to the imagination. I think I was have always been attracted to the power for change that words have. Both in communication and in shaping out very worldviews.
Like almost every human interaction uses the interface of words. So they're really powerful.
And when God revealed Himself to mankind, He used the Word.

I guess for me my love of reading, of words, just naturally flowed into wanting to create my own worlds with words, to write my own stories.....
I didn't treat it as a very serious interest at first, but a year or two ago I was just like, you know, this is something I really really like doing. Ever since I've been pretty confident that this is the area God has for me.
Which is nice because for the longest time I didn't know what I was going to do with my life and that was unsettling because I felt like I needed to know. But with time I discovered my true passion, I guess.

Areth,

Ka

Aha! Your Internet service provider must also be مستقبل!

...okay, maybe not.


You know, that's true. The issue is betraying your ideal, not writing to make money.

I really need to read something by George MacDonald...I think my mom read some short stories of his to me at some point, but she found them too strange and decided to spend her time reading to me with books that she enjoyed more.


I've attempted Bleak House too! I stopped when I realized that I wasn't keeping track of the characters and was probably missing super-important details left and right. It's still on my list of books to read, though...Someday...I hope I'll also end up reading other works of Dickens, but at the moment I have such a huge to-read list that it will probably take a while.


I think that not being a self-supporting author could improve your writing in other ways, too. Not only would you be more free to write what you want, you might also get life experience through the jobs you're working that you wouldn't if you were holed up in your basement writing all day. Just as you get more life experience the older you are, as you were discussing.


I love this part of Christianity - this dynamic of our constant striving to perfection, our constant failure, and God's constant mercy. This is actually a big part of why I end up loving flawed books so much - they feel more real to me than better-written books because they reflect how something imperfect can still do something beautiful: the imperfect book can still move me and show me truth, like we, by God's grace, can still love and do good things and see His glory. It's a metaphor, you know?

Ha! I can ramble philosophically too!


Hehe. All the better for you, then... Really, my sister and I work ourselves up to those endings; we react so strongly to them partly because we want to. It's great fun to psych yourself up for an ending and just go all-out enjoying it as much as you possibly can!


Yes...Well...Most of the time you know where things are going... But yes, he definitely goes for the twisty plots with lots of failing plans and unexpected complications.

My sister and I are done with TWoA now (and found it good and satisfying though not our favorite) and so are now busy getting excited and worked up for The Hero of Ages. I've heard a lot about that book's "audacious" and "original" and "unexpected" ending, and seen a lot of awed, speechless reviewers...which makes me excited, but also makes me a bit worried..."Audacious" sounds a tad...euphemistic, you know? Well, we shall see!!


I know quite a few people who hated it, but I also know quite a few who loved it. It's one of those books with lots of descriptions that drive some people crazy (because GET ME TO THE POINT ALREADY!!) but other people love because they find them hilarious. And the main character makes a lot of stupid decisions, which annoys some people; I personally still found him sympathetic enough, but your mileage may vary.


Well, if you spread it out over time...I recently read through a hundred or so short stories by O. Henry in just a few days, for school (it's complicated). That was certainly an experience. I enjoyed the stories, but I don't think I'll want to read anything else by O. Henry for another decade or so. Whew. They would have been much nicer spread out, as interludes between longer stories I'm assigned. And I would remember them better...now they're just one huge mush in my head...


Nice! At the moment I'm a junior in high school and considering and researching what college I'll go to, what I'll study, etc., so I've been thinking about it a lot. For myself, I will probably study computer science and linguistics, but I want to take tons of literature classes...and history, and theology, and political science, and sociology, and anthropology, and music, and yeah, pretty much all the humanities. This is why I am only looking at liberal arts schools!


Yes. Reading will do that.

It's interesting how you say that the power of words attracts you to writing. For me the power of words attracts me more to linguistics - I'm curious about how their power works more than how to use it.


That's awesome! It's wonderful to see where God leads us, and how He gives us interests and bits of knowledge and things and then they wind up being really significant. And it's great to see how He gave you a direction after you were unsure for some time...

My life has often felt to me like a really complicated novel that's a part or two away from the ending: a big pileup of significant details that are obviously connected somehow and obviously going somewhere...but how and where exactly isn't clear yet. I have a lot of unusual interests and knowledge and experience of all different types that to my storyteller's eyes seem to hint that there's some awesome grand plan going on...but I have no idea what details the Great Author is going to end up using and what details are just going to be red herrings. Or what details are going to look for the longest time like red herrings but ultimately turn out to be significant. Anyways, it will be a great adventure, whatever happens.

Gosh, Karthmin! Now for the third time you've gotten me to put into words deep things that have been floating around in my mind for some time. And on a public forum, too!