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 Post subject: Coincidence.
PostPosted: September 21st, 2013, 8:27 am 
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I read a quote in a writing magazine yesterday, where an author said writing a coincidence to get your character into a situation is fine, but inventing a coincidence to get your character out of a mess is cheating.

Do you agree with this quote?

Have you ever written a coincidence to get you character out of a mess?

Have you ever seen a coincidence to get a character out of a mess written tastefully in a novel?

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From the ashes a fire shall be woken,
A light from the shadows shall spring;
Renewed shall be blade that was broken,
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 Post subject: Re: Coincidence.
PostPosted: September 21st, 2013, 10:01 am 
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I never really understood talk about coincidence. For, technically, everything that happens is coincidence, because it is being forced by us to further the story. If by coincidence they mean 'Deus ex Machina' then I agree. I don't like it when the story just has a surprise answer coming out of nowhere. It should be explained beforehand (like Mount Doom in Lord of the Rings) or, at least, hinted at (like Sherlock Homes: Case of the Speckled Band).
Though, having said that, I have used semi coincidence in one of my novels. :roll: Though that was only a secondary solution to a semi-minor problem.

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 Post subject: Re: Coincidence.
PostPosted: October 18th, 2013, 11:13 am 
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I agree with that quote instinctively, because I can think of so many instances where a coincidence getting someone out of trouble has annoyed me in a story.

But after a bit more thought, I realized that there has been the rare case where an accident or coincidence that was helpful to the characters was well done, and I didn't mind it at all.

I think...though I haven't thought about this much...that the main difference is whether or not the accident or coincidence makes sense – whether or not there was some good explanation earlier in the novel for why it would happen. If there is that element of – foreshadowing, I suppose you might call it – then I am excited and surprised and (if I like the characters) really happy, rather than being disappointed.

If it is used for something too big, however (for instance, the climax of the novel), it feels like a cop-out still, even if it was foreshadowed. It's too important to be ruled by coincidences and accidents. :P (Unless, of course, it's a humorous work...in which case, accidents ruling the climaxes are great, if so desired. :D)


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 Post subject: Re: Coincidence.
PostPosted: October 18th, 2013, 11:36 pm 
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The minute I read that quote two words came to mind...

Eoin Colfer

I consider the first and third Artemis Fowl books to be some of the best sci-fi/fantasy novels I've ever read, and they are chock-full of "coincidences", in fact, they are the driving force behind most of the plot points. I have yet to successfully implicate coincidences In my stories, so maybe it is just part of his style.

In essence, I believe it is very possible to create a tasteful story full of coincidences that get characters into and out of situations. It may be very hard, and some writers (like myself) cannot do it at all, but I think it is not entirely impossible.

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 Post subject: Re: Coincidence.
PostPosted: March 24th, 2014, 9:49 pm 
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There is ultimately no such thing as coincidence because God is working in the world to bring about His plan. However, there are lots of amazing stories in history where different factors coincide to bring about an unlikely outcome, and it is REALLY cool.

Coincidence has won battles (or lost, depending on your POV) gotten prisoners out of jail, caught dangerous criminals and all sorts of amazing things! (Look up the story of Dick Turpin! It's crazy! The letter just HAPPENED to be seen by the person who had taught him how to write who ALSO recognized his handwriting!) God is always at work, and these things happen in real life. Why should they not also happen in a novel? The problem with coincidence plot devices is sloppy writers who use them constantly because they are either unskilled/unimaginative/both.

We shouldn't write ourselves into dead ends and then use coincidences because we don't know what else to do. (Because yes, it's Deux ex Machina.) But there's a perfectly legitimate place for them as well. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Coincidence.
PostPosted: March 29th, 2014, 3:06 pm 
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I've seen several quotes (none of which I can bring to mind in exact wording, alas) to the effect that the difference between truth and fiction is that truth is required to be plausible. Critics (and authors) also like to talk about the "willing suspension of disbelief." And readers tend to be more willing to accept implausible coincidences when they're making the protagonist's Problem worse, because they expect the author to get the protagonist out of the Problem by the end, than coincidences that make the protagonist's Problem significantly easier.

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 Post subject: Re: Coincidence.
PostPosted: September 24th, 2014, 9:50 am 
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Willow Wenial Mimetes wrote:
There is ultimately no such thing as coincidence because God is working in the world to bring about His plan.


I have always seen it as God has a plan for us, but the Devil has plans for the world. Some of what we see happening in the world is Satan's plans, and some of what we see is God working. I think there is coincidence, as well as divine plan.

Willow Wenial Mimetes wrote:
We shouldn't write ourselves into dead ends and then use coincidences because we don't know what else to do.


That makes sense. *Nods* I guess that's what comes of having a detailed plot to follow as well.

Politician de Paz wrote:
Though, having said that, I have used semi coincidence in one of my novels. :roll: Though that was only a secondary solution to a semi-minor problem.


Well, you do see things that are coincidental happening in real life. I don't think it's something that should never be used.

Mistress Rwebhu Kidh wrote:
I think...though I haven't thought about this much...that the main difference is whether or not the accident or coincidence makes sense – whether or not there was some good explanation earlier in the novel for why it would happen. If there is that element of – foreshadowing, I suppose you might call it – then I am excited and surprised and (if I like the characters) really happy, rather than being disappointed.
If it is used for something too big, however (for instance, the climax of the novel), it feels like a cop-out still, even if it was foreshadowed. It's too important to be ruled by coincidences and accidents. :P (Unless, of course, it's a humorous work...in which case, accidents ruling the climaxes are great, if so desired. :D)


Definitely. I think for me it's if the coincidence is so far fetched it's unreal. I can think of several films where this happens, although not so much with novels.

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All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.

From the ashes a fire shall be woken,
A light from the shadows shall spring;
Renewed shall be blade that was broken,
The crownless again shall be king

J. R. R. Tolkien


My favourite quote: "God will give His kindness for you to use when your own runs out."

Pippin's Waggy Tales

Autumn Leaves


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 Post subject: Re: Coincidence.
PostPosted: September 24th, 2014, 9:52 am 
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kingjon wrote:
I've seen several quotes (none of which I can bring to mind in exact wording, alas) to the effect that the difference between truth and fiction is that truth is required to be plausible. Critics (and authors) also like to talk about the "willing suspension of disbelief." And readers tend to be more willing to accept implausible coincidences when they're making the protagonist's Problem worse, because they expect the author to get the protagonist out of the Problem by the end, than coincidences that make the protagonist's Problem significantly easier.


That makes sense. I can think of multiple times in books where a coincidence to make a problem worse has happened, and I'm fine with that. There's definitely a lot of truth in that.

_________________

All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.

From the ashes a fire shall be woken,
A light from the shadows shall spring;
Renewed shall be blade that was broken,
The crownless again shall be king

J. R. R. Tolkien


My favourite quote: "God will give His kindness for you to use when your own runs out."

Pippin's Waggy Tales

Autumn Leaves


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 Post subject: Re: Coincidence.
PostPosted: September 24th, 2014, 11:15 am 
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I agree that coincidences in most cases are fine. But not if they end up as Deus Ex Machina.

As for whether I've ever written any coincidences in my stories... yep. Lots of them. And it usually works out, especially since I try to hint at said coincidences earlier on in the book.

Have I ever written Deus Ex Machina into my stories? Um... yes... but we don't talk about those. *pushes them to the back of the closet*


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