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 Post subject: Food for Thought: Opposites
PostPosted: June 19th, 2013, 12:48 am 
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In writing a fictional language, what if opposites are represented as the same word? So that a vice and virtue are the same trait unless distinguished as positive or negative. So where being frugal is good, and stingy is bad, they would use the same word and you can only tell which is represented by the tone or the rest of the sentence. Perhaps more different opposites such as stinginess and generosity are represented by only slight word variation. This could go a lot of ways.

:)

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 Post subject: Re: Food for Thought: Opposites
PostPosted: June 19th, 2013, 5:38 am 
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Fascinating idea. :book:

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 Post subject: Re: Food for Thought: Opposites
PostPosted: August 2nd, 2013, 10:03 pm 
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Hmmm....reminds me a little of the language in 1984 (I forget its name). In that language, they only have one word -- for example, 'good' -- and the negative is just not-good. 'Very good' becomes 'good-plus' and 'Very, very bad,' 'not-good-plus-plus.' Simple :D

As far as having them be the exact same word, that would bring up a bunch of interesting scenarios where maybe someone's true intentions aren't really known, and it depends on the person telling the story to color their motives. Or maybe a person can defend himself by bringing context to this ambiguous describing word.

I like this :D

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 Post subject: Re: Food for Thought: Opposites
PostPosted: August 3rd, 2013, 6:18 am 
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The concept you're talking about is actually present in English to some extent...I've often found those particular words very interesting–how they could mean 'opposites', and context was the only way to tell what they were in a particular usage. 'Leniency', for instance. It would be so interesting to take it even farther and have most of the words do that.... :cool:


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 Post subject: Re: Food for Thought: Opposites
PostPosted: August 8th, 2013, 12:27 am 
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One example of this in English is the word "cleave." With one preposition, it means (roughly) "divide", and with a different preposition it means "join".

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Creator of the Shine Cycle, an expansive fantasy planned series, spanning over two centuries of an imagined world's history, several universes (including various alternate histories and our own future), and the stories of dozens of characters (many from our world).

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 Post subject: Re: Food for Thought: Opposites
PostPosted: August 8th, 2013, 9:36 am 
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Yeah, I always thought 'cleave together' in the old hymns sounded funny to me. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Food for Thought: Opposites
PostPosted: August 8th, 2013, 12:02 pm 
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Andrew wrote:
Yeah, I always thought 'cleave together' in the old hymns sounded funny to me. :)


Like you're using an ax to attach stuff.

_________________
You can't spell grin without ̶gRIN
Words are my ̶bread and ̶butter.
http://unshakablegirl.com/
http://www.ravelry.com/designers/kitra-skene

Haud Retene Haud Reverte

All resemblance to persons, people, friends, relatives, quotes, cultures, artificial intelligences, inside jokes, pets, unclaimed personalities, sentient objects, extra-terrestrials, inter-terrestrials, and draperies living, dead, undead, or comatose in any of my work are purely coincidental, incidental, circumstantial, inadvertent, unplanned, unforeseen, and unintentional. There's seriously no way I was referring to you. Honest.

The story so far:
Birthright: Eleventh chapter pending. 28280 words.
Heritage: First chapter drafted.
Legacy: Character and plot development stage.
Get a feel for the land. Visit Lor-Amar today!

Other novels on the brain:
Quicksilver
Shen'oh Story
Crusoe's Star
War Blazer
Seven Arts Story
The Queen's Knave
Polarians
Exile Realms
All Librarians Are Secret Agents


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 Post subject: Re: Food for Thought: Opposites
PostPosted: August 8th, 2013, 2:55 pm 
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Bahaha! That's funny. XD I remember that word giving me a lot of confusion in my younger years. o.O

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 Post subject: Re: Food for Thought: Opposites
PostPosted: August 9th, 2013, 1:11 am 
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Whereas for me, "cleave to" is a very natural phrase that's been in my vocabulary as long as I can remember, but "cleave from" was a phrase I learned much later.

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Originally inspired to write by reading C.S. Lewis, but can be as perfectionist as Tolkien or as obscure as Charles Williams.

Author of A Year in Verse, a self-published collection of poetry: available in paperback and on Kindle; a second collection forthcoming in 2022 or 2023, God willing (betas wanted!).

Creator of the Shine Cycle, an expansive fantasy planned series, spanning over two centuries of an imagined world's history, several universes (including various alternate histories and our own future), and the stories of dozens of characters (many from our world).

Developer of Strategic Primer, a strategy/simulation game played by email; currently in a redesign phase after the ending of "the current campaign" in 2022.

Read my blog!


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 Post subject: Re: Food for Thought: Opposites
PostPosted: August 1st, 2014, 11:48 pm 
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Andrew wrote:
Hmmm....reminds me a little of the language in 1984 (I forget its name). In that language, they only have one word -- for example, 'good' -- and the negative is just not-good. 'Very good' becomes 'good-plus' and 'Very, very bad,' 'not-good-plus-plus.' Simple :D

Actually, the language in 1984 (it's called Newspeak, by the way :)) also has single words that can mean either good or bad things. For instance, the word "duckspeak." Applied to somebody you don't like, it means blabbering pointless talking. Applied to somebody you do like, it means a good sort of talking.

I could see something like this developing in a culture where people never wanted to say negative things outright. So instead they used positive words just with certain intonation and body language in certain contexts, and then those words developed to have both positive and negative meanings.

Actually, you see this to some extent in English with words like "retarded." That word isn't supposed to be offensive, or positive either, for that matter - it just has a particular medical meaning. But people also use it as an insult. At least, they used to, I'm not always on top of current American slang. :) But these days people have stopped using "retarded" in the medical sense because of the negative sense it's acquired. So somehow you'd have to find some way to explain why people don't start inventing new words that are less ambiguous...again, something about their culture could probably deal with that! Also, there might still be a lot of words that aren't ambiguous - maybe the ones that can mean multiple things are more polite or more familiar or something...?

Anyways, very interesting idea...I'll have to consider it next time I create a language for a culture that loves indirect communication!

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 Post subject: Re: Food for Thought: Opposites
PostPosted: August 2nd, 2014, 4:18 am 
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Like saying "Bless his heart" when you're annoyed with someone?

_________________
You can't spell grin without ̶gRIN
Words are my ̶bread and ̶butter.
http://unshakablegirl.com/
http://www.ravelry.com/designers/kitra-skene

Haud Retene Haud Reverte

All resemblance to persons, people, friends, relatives, quotes, cultures, artificial intelligences, inside jokes, pets, unclaimed personalities, sentient objects, extra-terrestrials, inter-terrestrials, and draperies living, dead, undead, or comatose in any of my work are purely coincidental, incidental, circumstantial, inadvertent, unplanned, unforeseen, and unintentional. There's seriously no way I was referring to you. Honest.

The story so far:
Birthright: Eleventh chapter pending. 28280 words.
Heritage: First chapter drafted.
Legacy: Character and plot development stage.
Get a feel for the land. Visit Lor-Amar today!

Other novels on the brain:
Quicksilver
Shen'oh Story
Crusoe's Star
War Blazer
Seven Arts Story
The Queen's Knave
Polarians
Exile Realms
All Librarians Are Secret Agents


Top
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 Post subject: Re: Food for Thought: Opposites
PostPosted: August 2nd, 2014, 6:22 am 
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I'm not really familiar with that expression...but probably yes.

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"For Christ's sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong." - 2 Corinthians 12:10


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