Just want to put the discussion out there.

What defines intelligence? What is the purpose of intelligence?

Specifically you can apply this to the creatures or races you make up. How intelligent are the races you've made, and what do you mean when you say one is more intelligent than another?

My family were discussing this the other day around the table and we never did hit on a definite point. There is wisdom, intelligence, and education. You could also throw common sense into that equation, or wit as well. I'm not exactly how to define "intelligent". Is it to be clever, and spout facts from a well of extensive education? Is it a firm grasp on reality and having a good dose of common sense and tact? Is it to be witty, or a fast thinker in order to have good comebacks in an argument?

Yeah. Like I said, we didn't reach an agreement. So I'll be interested to watch this thread.

Talking about intelligence as something sentient beings have in addition to being sentient, or are you talking about sentience itself? I'm assuming the former based on how your post is worded.

@Bannanaman
You could take it either way. I've been trying to look up things about epistemology lately which is the study of knowing or coming to knowledge (a loose definition, I know). How intelligent people or races are would sort of depend on what you considered intelligence to be. We tend to think that the modern man is more intelligent now than any other time period on earth, but is that true? Sure we know a lot about scientific stuff but that whole mode of thinking is a construct and has limitations – just look at trying to conceptualize quantum physics. There are other modes of intelligence (which I would define as the capability or power of the mind to understand). Other cultures have different ways that they think they gain knowledge. For example, some far east teachings require people to throw off the social constructs of language in order to better know a thing.

Just wondering if other people have thought about this stuff in relation to say a troll type race. Are they less intelligent because they have less power of understanding? Or do they have that power and choose to ignore it? (I'm playing off of the sort of bubbling troll stereotype that you see in The Hobbit.)

I would say an intelligent being is deductive as opposed to instinctive. Parrots for example can talk but they don't understand what they are saying nor than they work out what to say when

They say I'm a genius. 99th percentile IQ, or something like that.

But that's nothing more than how fast and accurately I can use my reasoning abilities and what I know to solve problems.

My emotional intelligence is off the chart the other way...I'm high functioning autistic so I am severely handicapped in social situations and even have trouble knowing what I'm feeling, myself.

I don't think intelligence can be narrowed down to one definition. Intelligence is nothing more than a scale you can apply to any number of cognitive attributes. Higher up on the scale means you have an advantage in that attribute over people who are lower than you. For example, intelligence applied to music would put Chopin very high on the scale, with me quite a bit lower.

But what if I practiced music with as much dedication as Chopin did? What if I made it my career? I started playing early, like he did, I started composing early, like he did. I didn't have as much early talent, but suppose I worked at it to make up for that, and ended up on the same level.

Unlike IQ, some of what people consider "intelligence" is learned. Just like the Chopin and me example, there are some people out there who are really amazing writers, who have hardly written anything. But when I had hardly written anything, I was a horrible writer. I wrote 1.5 million words in order to be capable of decent writing.

So would we attribute that to a high intelligence in the area of focus and dedication, rather than any natural ability to write well that may or may not have been there in the first place?

Some awesome thoughts Bananaman!

I would say you are absolutely correct in saying:

But think about this for a moment. I said that intelligence was the capability or power of the mind to understand. With any power, there is a certain gradation that it entails. Think of just regular power: the power to lift something heavy, let's say. Most human beings have the power to lift heavy things, but certain people can lift more than others. One reason is that one person might be born with a larger body type. A second reason has to do with training the body to lift heavy things through practice and repetition. Now, There are still limits to this power. A human can never develop the power to lift something as heavy as a house (with their body). The same holds true to every individual. I have a fairly slender build, so I probably will not be able to develop my lifting power as much as some of my shorter, stockier friends. I believe the same holds true of intelligence. Certain people have a greater threshold of intelligence, but they need to develop it if they want to reach their full potential. Does my definition make more sense now?

Now the second part of my question is what sort of intelligence do you give to your beings. Also, if there was some form of "primitive" people in your story, then would they have the same threshold of intelligence as the same people who are less primitive? Think of our own world, does a person on an island who has never had any contact with the outside world have the same power of understanding as we do? To me that is a tricky question. I want to say that they do because they are also human as I am and they have the same abilities I do. But I have been raised in a society which promotes understanding, where as their society most likely promoted survival. Wouldn't they be at a disadvantage? Wouldn't my power be greater than theirs? Does anyone have any people similar to the ones I described here, and if you do, then how do you handle them in your story? Should the more intelligent beings take pity on them and help them develop their power of understanding that they might better see the truth?

thats the key though.... you reason. You don't use instinct. I don't know much about autism but though the expression of that reasoning may be somewhat lacking (as far as social interaction) you can still reason, analyse and deduce


but how does that differentiate between intelligence and blind copying? Now.... if you took music, played around with the melody, recognised a likely mistake or were able to fill in a note or two if the music was damaged that would be different. Thats using deductive powers which separates humans from animals