NOTE: Date has been postponed to the 11th because of technical difficulties.

Hail, fair Holy Worlder! As a member of the Holy Worlds community, you need to read this post. No, really, you do. If you don’t your account might disappear.

No, I’m not joking. It’s a very possible side effect of some upcoming changes that certain accounts will no longer be accessible.

Panicking yet? Good. So keep reading.

It is with great excitement that I announce that Holy Worlds will soon be unified under a single login!

What does that mean? Well, currently all of Holy Worlds’ branches (Fantasy, Sci-Fi, and Historical) exist as separate sites. You have to create a unique account on each one, and you have to log into each one separately.

Thanks to Andrew’s (aka Eruheran) technical brilliance, however, this will soon be changed. On Saturday, May 4th, Holy Worlds will be transformed into one unified site with a single login. You will have only one account from which you can access all of the forums simultaneously.

An easy way to explain it is to compare it to Google. When you create a gmail (Google’s email service, for people that don’t have it) account, you’re creating a login that works on a multitude of Google products. If you sign into gmail, your inbox looks like this:



See all those options on the top navigation bar, like YouTube and Drive? Those are just some of the services that you can access with your Google account. Once you’re signed into your email, you can access any of those services simultaneously with a click of the mouse, and all your user information is connected to one account. You don’t need to create a separate username and password to sign into G+, Drive, etc. Simple, fast, and convenient.

This change will revolutionize how we all access Holy Worlds. It will enable easy access to all of the forums as well as simplify collaboration and announcements; no longer will you have to join the Fantasy forum to participate in special events and projects, and no longer will announcements have to be posted in three places. Group leaders and members will find collaboration amongst the ringed folk will be much simpler. Andrew and I are very confident that this change will enable the forum to grow by leaps and bounds.

But how will this work? The unified login works by rearranging the backend of the site so that all of the forums draw their account information from one database. The database is like a glorified spreadsheet that contains all the user information. Currently each forum has its own database; by having them all access the same database, the site will be unified, and your user account will be valid on all the forums.

Unfortunately, this comes with a drawback. Because we can only draw from one database--the database that the Fantasy forum accesses--any information that is exclusively on the Sci-Fi or Historical databases will be lost. This means that if you do not have an account on the Fantasy forum, your account will be lost and you will need to create a new one before you can access Holy Worlds. Additionally, no one will be able to access any PMs in their Sci-Fi or Historical inboxes. (Andrew is exploring the possibility of exporting PMs, but be prepared for the possibility.)

If you do not have an account on Fantasy, you will need to create one so you can access Holy Worlds after the change. You also need to copy over any PMs from Sci-Fi or Historical that you wish to save. Drafts of posts and PMs will also be lost, but any posts or threads that have been posted will not be deleted.

Yes, this is going to be a hassle. That is why we are giving you all advance warning. Andrew and I are both sorry it has to be done this way, but we believe it is a worthy sacrifice. The long-term good that will result from a unified login is immense. Bear with us through the initial chaos, and Holy Worlds will be better equipped for years to come.

Naturally, things are going to get messy while we implement the changes, Andrew works through any bugs that arise, and everyone becomes adjusted to the changes. Below are some points to help prepare you for the impending changes as well as preemptively answer some of your questions. If you have any questions or concerns, don’t hesitate to speak up!


--When will the changes be happening? Andrew will be rolling out the unified login on Saturday, May 4th; because of time zones, this will happen in the middle of the night Friday for us in the US.

--Will the forum be down during the changes? Yes; the site will be offline for about a day while Andrew does the bulk of the tech work. As soon as the site is functional, he will put it back online while he works out the bugs.

--Will we get a top navigation bar? Yes! Andrew will be installing a top navigation bar (like the one in the gmail screenshot) that will allow quick access to all of the branches of Holy Worlds. The bar may not go up the same day as the unified login, but it will be coming soon after.

--Will I have to have the same username on all the forums? Yes; unfortunately at this time there is no way to allow users to set unique nicknames on the separate forums. You will, however, be able to have a unique avatar and signature on each of the branches (Fantasy, Sci-Fi, and Historical) to customize your “genre look.”

--Where will I access my PMs? Your PMs and user control panel (settings) will be accessible through a new fourth “forum” that will be added. This fourth forum will contain access to your control panel and PM inbox. A tab to this forum will be added to the top navigation bar.

--What if I only post on Fantasy and don’t want to join Sci-Fi, or vice versa? A unified login only means you will have access to all of Holy Worlds’ forums. It does not mean you need to visit them. The only change you’ll need to make in your browsing habits is that you will need to access the fourth “forum” to read forum-wide announcements and the like (more on that later).

--What about ranks and user groups? All of the ranks and user groups (Moderators, Honor Roll Members, etc.) will now be universal. That means that if you’re a member of the Moderator group, you will have moderator permissions across all of the forums. This does not mean you need to be on “active duty” on all three forums; in fact, you will be able to customize your "default rank" (what color your name appears as) on the individual forums to reflect your active position. For example, if you're a member of the moderator group, you will have moderator permissions (the ability to move threads, etc.) across all of the forums, but you will only wear your green ring on the forums you actively moderate.

--So what about rooms like the Moderators’ Lair, Holy Worlds Projects, Announcements, etc.? All of these rooms--almost everything that’s in the Fantasy Citadel--will be on the new fourth forum. Announcements, events, and site projects will be hosted on this forum where everyone can collaborate together; this will also mean that all members of ranks will be able to congregate in one place. The individual genre forums will no longer have a “Citadel” of their own, although they will have smaller Announcements, Planning, and “party” rooms for genre-specific events. All other rooms on the genre forums will remain intact and separate.


Any questions? Ask away! Don’t forget to mark your calendars, create a Fantasy login if you do not have one, and copy over any Sci-Fi/Historical PMs you want to save. Change is coming--and it’s going to be great!

So what will happen to our signatures on Sci-Fi and Historical Fiction?

Wow. This is a huge change. I have no idea how one would go about coding all of that to transfer smoothly. But this makes a lot of sense. Looking forward to this; thanks Andrew! (And any other people who are working on this!)

You will still be able to have unique signatures on HF and SF, but you'll need to reconstruct them once you can access your new control panel. (In other words, you can still have unique signatures, but that information won't be saved so you'll need to type it in again.)

*cough*endtimes*cough*
This is great! Thanks to everyone working on this.

This sounds like a terrific and much needed update! I just have one question: after the switch, will I be able to edit my posts on the sci-fi forum? I had one rather fancy post (rather proud of it ) that I routinely edit to add updates to my book. Since I finished the first draft I think I'm done editing it, but I'd like to know for sure. If I won't be able to edit it after the switch, I'll probably just take my book offline until things are back in order.

One major (to me) concern that I just thought of (but should have thought of and brought up when the trial balloon was flown as a RFC): Bookmarks. And saved notification emails.

There are a fair number (probably several dozen at least) of threads (and in some cases specific posts) that I've bookmarked, not just using the "bookmark thread" link next to the "subcribe thread" link at the top of every page of every thread---which I've also used but I would hope you've thought about already---but using my browser-bookmarking system (Diigo, in my case, but the principle is more general). If I try to use one of these bookmarks after the changeover, what will happen? (If "the links will just break," this will make reconstructing the collection difficult at best; the "page title" for many threads isn't very useful for finding them again.)

Another possible face of the same potential-problem: Most of the emails piled up in my inbox (hovering at a total of 60 at the moment) are HW-related, notifications either of PMs I need to act on or of threads I want to reply to, the oldest dating back to last October. Since PM notification emails only link to my PM inbox anyway, I don't much care if those links are broken, but if the links in pre-conversion forum-post and thread-reply notification emails no longer work after the conversion, that'll be an arguably bigger disruption than having HW down for a day.

Luke, sadly, no; once the switch is made, posts on HF and SF will only be editable by those with editor permissions (member of the Editor rank and up). The post will still be there--it won't be deleted--but since you won't be able to access that account anymore, you won't be able to edit the post as the author. This will make the archives of HF and SF a bit complicated for awhile, but it's a switch we only have to make once and we'll be set for the future.

Jon, I do not believe links will be affected. As far as I know, the format of URLs, threads, and posts will remain the same. (I will double-check with Andrew to be sure.) So the links in your notification emails will still be active, although you will need to resubscribe to HF and SF threads from your Fantasy account once it is made universal. The bookmarks you have in your browser will also be fine. But sadly, yes--you won't be able to access your on-site bookmarks from HF and SF anymore. Thanks for making a note of that, as I don't use bookmarks so I hadn't thought to warn people of that.

Alright, thanks for clarifying that. I needed something to force me to make a final decision about that post anyway, so I don't mind!

Exciting times! Thanks, all those who are working hard on this!

WOOHOOOOOO!! I'm so excited for this!!!

I forgot to ask: Will the chat be unified across all three forums?

The chats will be semi-unified, as far as I can tell from the discussions. I think the general agreement was some sort of general chat, and then different chat tabs.

I be completely honest I keep forgetting to ask Andrew about chat. I've remembered and forgotten like half a dozen times. I'll clarify that with him.

So glad y'all are excited!

Wow, thanks for letting us know. XD I had forgotten about this...

*hides from all the changes*

* raises hands *

Question, do we already have to change our names?

Sweet! I think that's a really great idea.
Aaaand, can I offer a suggestion? Could a realistic fic board possibly be added? (It would sort of make my year. Bahaha.)
Stoked to see how it turns out!
-KatieGrace

What will happen to the HF and SF post counts?

*prepares megaphone and waves top-hat! *

Thank you Mr. Andrew, and Ms. Aubrey, and any unnamed persons who helped! Thank you very much: I have really hoped this would happen.

I will probably be more active on the other forums after the change. I have posted so many things in three places that I had better be appreciative of this.

I think we could use the Change Poster tool to allow people to edit their old posts. It is what we have been using to post Jay's posts for him.

Basically if someone wants to edit one of their posts from before the switch they can contact someone to change the poster to their new account so that they have access to it.

Of course if they are Editors or such like they would be able to edit any posts, thus they would still be able their own posts, correct? They may also be able to change the poster themselves, though I do not know what roles have that ability.

Are the design changes in the Anduin project part of this? Or is that for still later?
Basically the same question as Eleutheria.


*crouches beside little hole *
Now now, come on, they are very friendly, they will be good...

I think the general scope of the Historical Fiction forum includes that, or, depending on the style, it could be done in the Science Fiction forum. Do you have a story in mind that you do not know which forum to discuss it in?

Regarding the aesthetic design changes (yes, a visual remake of the forum is planned)... Let me let you in on a bit of the back-end process of this.

Anduin--Andrew's codename for the Holy Worlds redesign project (here's to hoping that codename wasn't a secret )--is a massive project with multiple phases. Because of the huge amount of time, effort, and funds required to complete, Andrew and I have decided to split Anduin into multiple phases and tackle each phase individually. The first phase is the unified login. Other phases include redesigning the visual template of the forums and much more!

Redoing the templates is probably the next phase we will tackle, but we don't have a date set for it yet. A big factor in that is funding. So if y'all are interested in seeing it done sooner rather than later... start raising money.

As for the rest of your questions...

@Lady E: We will keep "Where Marcher Lords and Moderators are working" threads updated as we do now. We can also add other similar threads if that would be helpful. That's one of those kinks we'll work out as we go.

@Mopa: You only have to change your name if you want to.

@KatieGrace: Adding another forum for a new genre would be an entirely different project. If you're interested in seeing another genre forum added, write up a proposal and PM it to me. I'll place it before the MLs to discuss. I will tell you right now, though, that HW strives to specialize in speculative fiction. While we discuss realistic fiction at times, our focus is the spec fic/niche genres.

@Mae: Unfortunately post counts from HF and SF will be lost when your Fantasy account becomes your only account. Once the changes are in place, however, it will begin adding all your post from all the forums to your count.

@Patrick: *high fives* So glad you're excited! About changing the author of a post, that's a brilliant idea! That would definitely work. And yes, anyone with editor permissions will still be able to edit any and all posts.

I've been drooling over Anduin for forever and a day, and would love to see it done sooner rather than later... Perhaps we should start a donations pool/fundraiser...

Okay; shall do.
I totally think that adding a realistic fic board would be amazing, because, as a realistic fic writer, I know that realistic fiction is and can be just as speculative as historical fic- which is literally just realistic fiction in a different time period.
I think it would be an awesome addition to this already-amazing site.
Thanks a bunch, and I look forward to seeing the new changes on the board that you talked about.
-KatieGrace

It's not the format of the URLs that I'm concerned with, but their content---the URL in the email notifying me of the post I'm quoting here seems to be saying, in abbreviated form, "35th forum (i.e. room), 7788th thread, 177266th post," for example. The forum software is smart enough to find the thread even if it's been moved within the forum (e.g. from Village Lore to General Discussion), but what's being planned here is moving all the posts from the SF and HF forums under the HWF ... aegis.


That's a problem I hadn't even thought about ... is there a way of getting a list of all the threads and forums I'm subscribed to (and which forums the threads are in) before the conversion, then?


I can't say I've ever used the bookmarks I've created ... but I will make a list of them (and their URLs, if they will indeed work) to recreate them after the conversion.


And here I thought (well, assumed) that part of why the forums were being taken offline for a whole day was to reassign all the SF and HF posts to the HWF equivalents of their authors ... it'd require some clever SQL trickery, perhaps, but I know it could be done.

Question! How much different will HW look when this is done? I mean, you're not changing the overall look of it, right, just a few details?

The entirety of HW will be changed, not just a few details -- but it will be changed in phases.

Visual design changes are planned, but they're for a later phase. The only immediate visual changes will be the addition of a fourth forum and the top navigation bar.

UPDATE: I consulted Andrew, and the format of the URLs will not change. This means any external bookmarks you have saved in your browser, any links you've posted elsewhere on the web, and any links in "topic notification" emails will still be active. However, any on-site bookmarks you have on HF and SF will no longer be accessible, and you will need to resubscribe to any threads on HF and SF you are currently following. You can see a list of all your subscriptions and bookmarks in the UCP.

I realize that the three original forums aren't changing in appearance at present – but I was suddenly struck with curiosity: what will the fourth forum look like?

Wow. This is going to be HUGE! But epic.


*wonders also*

I love this idea! So, since I have accounts on all three, I must just make sure that I save any PM I want from the other forums and then I'm "safe"?

And I repeat:



This, however, is useful information; thank you.

Kickstarter!

Yeah, that was random; but if funds are needed for the forum redesign, you could just have a small Kickstarter project for us to contribute to.

Wait, the fourth forum is for the account stuff and the UCP and PMs and such, right?

B-but I don't want Holy Worlds to look any different ever.... It wouldn't feel like Holy Worlds anymore... *Cries*

* hugs * Don't worry Calista lovey, it will always be HolyWorlds so long as we are all here, regardless of how it looks. You are still our awesome Milly even though you changed your name and avatar.

And kickstarter is a good idea!

Re design changes: we have mockups. I 100% guarantee that you will all love them; all ye who don't want things to change. Change can be a very, very, very good thing and these are all improvements. You should have seen Jay crowing on the phone when I sent him the mockups. You don't get to see them yet, though. They's a surprise. And we're not doing that now, so let's get back to the tech issues.

I had something intelligent to say and it got lost here....

Oh yes! A kickstarter project is a brilliant idea. Everyone is always confused as to how exactly to raise money, and that's one of the best I've heard. It would be quite a project to organize and head up, but very practical in the long run, and easy to promote. Someone go start a thread in the project room for us to brainstorm this!

PS - just because something is wonderful doesn't mean it can't be better. As an example of this, just look at the seasons change.

Hey, this looks like an awesome undertaking! Thanks to Andrew and everyone else working on this. I know what it's like to be on the wrong end of a keyboard during DB updates.

Which leads me to something else: I'd be happy to offer my services in any way they are needed for the other phases of this project. I'm a professional web programmer in NY, and have several years of Mysql and PHP programming under my belt. Just sticking that out there, in case y'all need some more help with later updates.

*raises hand shyly* Er... what is a kickstarter?

*Mumbles* I've had this avatar for two years...

*Cough*

Carry on.

A fundraiser sounds like a good idea. (Not that I have any money to speak of...it's already had its use appropriated to it..)

I have no idea what the fourth forum will look like. I left that in Andrew's capable hands, although I would not be surprised if he plans to redesign it during a later stage.

That is correct, Eli. Andrew is looking into the possibility of importing PMs, but at any rate all PMs will still be in the database. They will just not be accessible with your old account, although they may still be retrievable by other means later. (Waiting for confirmation from Andrew on that.)

Jon, the URL format is not changing because the structure of the forums is not changing. We are not bringing the other forums "under" Fantasy in a new hierarchy; in fact, we are not changing the other forums at all, really, except to remove some of the "Citadel" rooms. What we're doing is altering the user information; the other forums will simply be getting their user account information from another database. We're using Fantasy's database not because it's becoming the "parent" forum of the others, but because Fantasy's database is the oldest and most accurate/comprehensive, and Fantasy contains the most vital information.

That's correct, Balec.

Thank you extremely much for that, mborn! I will tell Andrew that, as he's the only one who can delegate technical work. I'm clueless with it. But irregardless we appreciate the offer!

Ohh, a Kickstarter campaign could be loads of fun! We'll have to look into that. First order of business is getting these changes implemented as smoothly as is possible with a change this drastic.

UPDATE: The launch date has been postponed 'til the 11th because of technical difficulties. So don't panic all over again when nothing happens tomorrow.

It's time! Are you all excited?

Late tonight Andrew will take Holy Worlds offline to do the major back-end work. He will strive to have the forum live again as soon as possible--hopefully less than 24 hours--but bear in mind that everything will not be "finished" when the site goes live again. Andrew plans to have the fourth administrative forum installed immediately, but the new UPC and navigation bar will take longer. Be patient as Andrew gets everything in place and works through any bugs that crop up. Also be patient with the leadership--it will take us some time to figure out how we want to use the new fourth forum, what threads need to be moved, and so on. Hang in there, but don't worry--you'll be able to post on the forums as normal during that time.

Brrraaaaacccceee youuuuurrrrsssseelllllvessss! (Sorry...)

*buckles seatbelt*

*Goes through a myriad of emotional changes*



*Runs around frantically*

Red alert! Shields up! Standby for damage control!

*Sits down and stops*

*chuckles*

"TO ALL PASSENGERS ABOARD THE HW-1FF PLEASE FASTEN YOUR SEAT-BELTS, CHANGES WILL BE DIFFERENT, TELEPORTATION IN 5.....4....3...2.."

*fastens seat-belt*