I knew Christians have always had a very interesting view of death, but recently I've found that it could be thought in an even more profound way.

Christ has called his followers to take up their daily cross and follow him (Luke 9:23). We, as Christians, are supposed to die daily to our own wills and submit ourselves to the will of God. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think that holds true across all denominations. I say this to emphasize that death is actually an important part of Christianity.

What is really interesting is that we believe that we find true life through death. We find true life in small doses in our daily taking up the cross, but ultimately we will find the fulfillment of it in our earthly death.

It almost seems to me that we find our human fulfillment in death. It is the one thing (besides birth) that is common between all men. Christ came and made a way through the one road which none of us know: none of us have died and yet lived as Jesus did. Through Jesus we have no fear of death, so we can have no fear of this life also. I think of Paul as saying something along the lines of, "What's the worst they can do to me? Kill me? That would be one of the best things they could do to me!"

To bring this back to fantasy for a second I would like to remember that Tolkien called mortality the gift of men. I wonder if he had something like what I mentioned in mind. Through death we can finally enter into the fullness of life. Death, in this sense, is a profound gift!

Now I turn to Genesis. There death is a curse, is it not? Then people were made to only live up to 125 years because of the evil they did. In this way we could think of death as another sort of blessing. Since men are evil on this earth, then it is a blessing that they only have a limited time to do damage. Imagine if Hitler lived for as long as Methuselah. There would still be some pretty awful kings around today, and they would be making thing worse and worse.

So here are a few things to think about: it seems to me that death was at first a curse that man took upon himself, don't eat the fruit lest you die; then Christ came along and did the impossible, he trampled death through death(!); now we do not have to fear the curse of death because Christ has undone it and even turned it into a path back to life.

I would love to hear some other thoughts on this subject. Feel free to disagree, but help me understand why you disagree that I might learn something.

Great thoughts!

And here's something interesting: physical death isn't even really death anymore for those who believe in Christ. Jesus conquered it. So now when we "die" we actually gain eternal life with God and Jesus. Jesus is life and we go to Him when we pass away. So you could, in a sense, say that we're not going to die, but we're going to live.

Now, I do believe that people can die before it's actually their time. You can look all throughout the Bible. Elijah raised a boy from the dead. Jesus raised people from the dead. Even after Jesus ascended into heaven people were raised from the dead. But everyone will die eventually.

However, we do know that God wants us to have a long and prosperous life. That was his first promise in the ten commandments. So I think death can be looked at in two very different ways. Ultimately, I think we need to live the life that we have on earth to serve and glorify God, minister to others, and bring others to Him. And there is a time to grieve; when people pass away it is sad for a time. Even Jesus cried when He visited Lazarus' tomb. Weep with those who weep. But we also know we have the assurance of everlasting life.

Anywho. This is starting to feel like a ramble, so I'll stop here. But I like what you said about needing to die to ourselves and go more towards God. This is something I struggle with and need to think about and try to understand more of.

I liked your thoughts, Nemo. Dying to self is something we don't constantly "do", because in reality, we are already dead. We died with Christ on the cross. The trick is remembering that our flesh is already dead, and that we must choose instead to live.

It's certainly interesting to think about.

Well that's definitely interesting! I've never thought of it that way, but I agree. Probably because I have a twisted sense of humor like that, but hey.

People seem to fear death, most of the time, even many Christians. Or, they aren't ready for it, at least, still have so much they want to do on this Earth. That seems to me to be the wrong way to look at it. If you know where you're going then you have nothing to fear. Anything you may want to do before you die won't really matter in the end, so there's no need to be afraid of dying. The only fear you should have is that you've not made the eternal impact that you should have in your lifetime (that is, spreading the gospel and bringing glory to God as He intended).

Here's an interesting thought though: everything that brings pain, everything that brings fear, everything that causes you anxiety is all rooted from a fear of death. Why do you fear spiders? They might bite you, the bite get infected, you die. Fear of heights? Falling to your death. Fear of disease? Dying. Fear of poverty? You don't have enough to eat, and you die, etc. etc. etc.

So when you say Christians shouldn't be afraid of death, the truth is, most of us are all afraid of death in some way, shape or form. Truly living without fear of death, means a life free of stress and worry about everything. And that isn't always easy to live out.

Haha and this is why I love it here. Good point!

Wow, that is a great thought Bushmaid! It goes right along with what Christ was talking about when he told us not to worry about what we would eat, what we would wear, and where we would live. He doesn't want us to worry about that stuff because He has conquered the root of all that worry. By death He has trampled death! We have such an amazing Savior!

I'm generally bad at thinking about death in a theological way. I never really had a problem with the idea and have been sort of morbidly fascinated with what it might feel like to have the soul and body separate. Occasionally I work on developing some theories of the link between soul and body - all that kind of weird, morbid stuff.

I also really enjoy physical representations of Death in stories. Those of you over 18 may like the portrayal of Death in Neil Gaiman's Sandman series.

That is another interesting topic to branch off on, Melody.

What do people think about the different portrayals of death? The Ancient Greeks had a very interesting way of portraying death. Instead of a tomb stone with a name and a date they had pictures of the deceased person. Normally the deceased was portrayed sitting down while the loved ones he/she left behind were portrayed standing up. Death limits your mobility in the Greeks' mind. Another interesting portrayal of death in Ancient Greek culture would be here (Warning: this is an ancient Greek statue so he is nude). So the guy is dying, but as a warrior dying in battle he has fulfilled his function as a warrior. There is no sadness on his face because he knows that he did what he was supposed to as a warrior; rather, he is content.

I'm afraid I haven't read any of the Sandman series. Is there any way you could post an excerpt, Melody?

Also here is something my friend wrote on the topic of The Concept of Death in Ancient Cultures. I still need to finish reading it....

Death in Sandman is my favourite portrayal of Death in literature, ever. She made me forget a lot of others... right now all I can pull out was the other really good one, the one from The Book Thief... Oh yeah and Death was in Good Omens but I understand he's actually more from Terry Pratchett's Discworld which I haven't read.

Mmm, it's a comic series so not besides this which I happened across on a quick google. (one full page from volume 1 - clean)
http://images2.fanpop.com/image/photos/ ... 2-1280.jpg

CAVEAT EMPTOR: while this particular page is clean, Sandman is NOT FOR KIDS. I'm really serious. It's a gorgeous series with a lot of interesting ideas - but it's got nudity/language/gore/etc. If you want to know why I recommend it despite the content, shoot me a PM.

Oh yeah - in that pic, Death is the girl with the necklace. Her brother Dream is the dark boy with the pale face and dark starry eyes.

*Loads PM gun and fires.*

Lewis said that if Earth is temporary, it is purgatory, but if it is forever, it is Hell.

I like Cornelia Funke's portrayal of death in Inkdeath. It's a shapeshifting golden bird.

Sounds much like a Phoenix - which is another heavily symbolic creature of Death and Life.

You forgot about 'fear of pain'. I have never in my life been afraid of death. But I'm still the most cowardly person I know. Emotional pain, physical pain, mental pain. Scary. Eliminating fear of death only eliminates half of fear, not all of it.

Yes, pain is another thing, as it isn't death. I can see why people wish for death if they are in a lot of pain; at least death ends pain. Which makes me wonder what the root of pain is...

Now I wish I had read Lewis' The Problem of Pain. Has anyone read that?

Also I'm wondering how people deal with death in their stories. Where do people go after death, and where do people think they go after death? Is it different for different races and cultures? Maybe someone would like to share.

I don't believe I have, but I need to.

At the Back of the North Wind is another great story about Death as a person. (North Wind is Death, essentially) She is my number 2 portrayal of Death, after Sandman.

You seem to like death portrayed by women. Is there any reason for that? I keep thinking of Death as a Grim Reaper kind of dude; not at all nice to look at. But that is thinking of death in the sense of decay. I also love to see death as the completion of a person's life. Like to see them doing at their death what they did their whole life and doing it well -- hence why I like the Greek statue of the fallen warrior. But there is the physical portrayal of death as a being which is interesting as well.

Well, in The Book Thief, Death is portrayed as a man (I think - it's 1st person so it's a little vague but I always imagine Death as a man. I believe in the film adaptation Death is being cast as male as well) and that's my #3...

Death in the tv show Supernatural is portrayed as an old man. Well-done but not unique.

Death in Terry Pratchett's Discworld is... classic grim reaper I think? I haven't read it but I understand that a very similar Death is in Good Omens, which I have read, because he co-wrote it with Neil Gaiman. I believe it's a humourous Grim Reaper, who talks in all capital letters. In Good Omens the character is played fairly straight; in Discworld, more funny. I think I heard he likes kittens.

Generally when portrayed as a woman, Death is more sensitive and less frightening than the Grim Reaper. Not always of course.

Then there's ... whatshisface from the Silmarillion. Mandos. He has a wife too but I can't name her off the top of my head. He's the equivalent of Hades. Very austere, very grave. Non-grim-reaper type, probably because he's more Lord of the Halls of Waiting and less anthropomorphic personification. Hades generally is portrayed like that as well, though I'm not as strong on my Greek myth.

Speaking of Hades, I was in a brilliant play last semester by Sarah Ruhl called Eurydice, based on the original myth... Hades was portrayed as two characters: The Nasty Interesting Man (in the real world) and the Lord of the Underworld who happens to look like an overgrown child on a trike. The character of Persephone does not exist so the Lord of the Underworld wants Eurydice for his bride... it's all sort of properly creepy.

I've got a photo of that one: http://events.addrummimages.com/galleri ... ce-440.jpg
(Goodness, what fun that was. I got to borrow the trike during the schoolday a few times. Rode it around the halls with a sign on it for the play. Told people that Jordan got to ride it in the show, haha.)

Wow, I managed to remember quite a few more portrayals this morning...

*grin* Like such?

That's an interesting makeup design - I'd love to see that done on a darkened blackbox stage under a spotlight. Could look really striking!

Wow.... I'm a little speechless.... But, yeah. That would be a typical (or maybe not so typical) depiction of death as a character. What do people think about this? Why would death be portrayed as this decaying figure in one story, but then as a beautiful young woman in another? Do either depictions have advantages over the others?

I have another portrayal of Death to add. The manga Deathnote has death gods in it. They're evil monster-things. Capricious, fae, and very Oriental. I believe the main one is called Ryuk.

And in Supernatural in addition to having old-man Death, they have a collection of 'Reapers' that work for Death as he can't be everywhere at once. They vary between a ghostly form and a physical form that can only be seen by the dead or dying; at one point Dean (one of the leads) meets one who takes the physical form of a darkhaired girl and calls herself Tess. The producers say that she was directly modelled off Death from Sandman as they're big Gaiman fans.

Gentle Death is not always female, btw. The Book Thief portrays Death as male if I recall correctly. The casting for the movie I believe will be male.

I think that both interpretations can serve stories perfectly well. I like to think that a character's view of Death will influence his or her physical perception of Death... it also has a lot to do with the storyworld and the general tone of the story. What kind of story does the author want to tell?

I'm exploring both sides in a script I need to pick up again soon. Gotta figure out the core of the story I want to tell...

That's actually very similar to the satan/demon model of our world. Very interesting....

They have that as well in Supernatural. In general their mythology closely mirrors the Judeo-Christian mythology. (Think Jewish mythology and Catholic mythology - they cherry pick the most interesting stuff and turn it up to eleven.)

I should make a thread for that as well.

You should, Jenni!!!!

There you go. viewtopic.php?f=153&t=7623

Wonderful.

Yes, Pratchett's Death is classic Grim Reaper type guy, and there's a mouse version too, who isn't immortal, and almost got eaten by a cat in one book.

In Irish mythology, I think Death is portrayed as three sisters, the Morrigan.