"Magic"

StoryGirl · **Posted:** October 20th, 2009, 10:56 pm

I use "magic" in my fantasy stories. But not like Harry Potter, or Eragon, more like Lewis and Tolkien. You see my "magic" is more like divine power. You might think of it as God giving someone the ability to do things they could never do through human ability. Now, the villain’s power is altogether different. It really is magic, or witch craft.
When I think in terms of magic for a Christian fantasy I think of the power God has, the power Satan has and how people here on earth try to tap into it. In my worlds there are two kinds of power. The good kind, (Divinely granted gifts) and the bad kind, (demonic fueled magic).

Magic is a very hard subject when it comes to Christian fantasy. If someone asked me if I believed magic to be wrong, I'd ask them what kind of magic they are talking about. Real magic is altogether evil and the Bible tells us to stay away from it. Then there's Fairy Tale magic, that just plain isn't real. Miracles have been called magic, but are they magic? No, they're God's power in action.

I hope I didn't confuse you all too much. What do you think? Do you use "magic" in your stories? Do you agree or disagree with me? Anything to add?

In Christ,
SG

Arias Mimetes · **Posted:** October 20th, 2009, 10:59 pm

I only allow my evil charries to use magic, because for me it's easier to explain where it came from. I'm not against Tolkien/Lewis style magic, because it's clearly good or evil. Harry Potter... eh, I don't really like that kind of magic. But I won't start on that.

Liagiba · **Posted:** October 21st, 2009, 6:31 am

In my (new) allegory, there is no magic but the elves are gifted with Dreshna which is like a supernatural connection to Eshyklah. The seers are gifted with the power to use nature (wind, water, storms, etc). Neither of these are magical gifts, both are given by Eshyklah and although they have magical properties, they aren't magic.

Willow Wenial Mimetes · **Joined:** September 27th, 2009, 1:28 pm **Posts:** 1588

I definitely use magic in my stories. What I really enjoy is taking words from different languages, and using different words with the same meaning to represent good and bad.

In one of my stories black magic is called "gramarye", and white magic is called "magyk". I don't think that books should rule out miracles, or God's power, OR demonic power. Those things are very real, and I don't think should simply be glossed over.

Liagiba · **Posted:** October 21st, 2009, 12:05 pm

I absolutely agree. We don't want to use miracles as easy answers for tough situations, but miracles are real so we want to let God's power be shown through our stories.

Willow Wenial Mimetes · **Joined:** September 27th, 2009, 1:28 pm **Posts:** 1588

Yes, I believe that that is called Deus ex Machina, and is not only a sign of poor writing, but is also extremely annoying to read about.

Liagiba · **Posted:** October 23rd, 2009, 10:11 pm

I'd agree. A well-placed, well-used miracle can show God's providence miraculously, though.

StoryGirl · **Posted:** October 27th, 2009, 5:52 pm

Here is a scene in which my villain is using demonic power to communicate with his lord, who is the Lord of Demons.

Quote:

In the center of the table sat a black bowl supported on a horned stand. Its reflective surface mirrored the torchlight, creating a fiery illusion. A clear liquid slowly churned within, as if possessing a life of its own. Regulus held his closed right hand over the bowl and chanted an inaudible phrase in a guttural voice. On and on he chanted, increasing the rhythm and volume with every verse. His out stretched hand began to tremble. The liquid in the bowl pulsed and radiated an orange glow. Regulus opened his hand. A black powder dropped into the bowl. Instantly a dense cloud of ashen smoke erupted from the liquid. Regulus stopped chanting. The cloud grew until it reached the ceiling, hand-like wisps curling around its edges. A dark silhouette took shape within the cloud. As if turning to face Regulus, the shadow stirred, and moved closer.

“Master,” Regulus said in a delicate tone.

I rewrote this scene a few times and honestly, I really like how it turned out.
What you you all think about it?

Liagiba · **Posted:** October 27th, 2009, 5:55 pm

Good job defining the magic there. How exactly does it work, beyond what you explained?

StoryGirl · **Posted:** October 27th, 2009, 6:04 pm

The liquid in the bowl is a "window" of sorts, the powder the "lock", and the chanted spell the "key". So, in order for him to "call on" is master he had to combine the liquid and powder (lock with the window), chant his spell, (insert the key), and if his master was in the right place and willing to talk, the window would open. Make sense?

Liagiba · **Posted:** October 27th, 2009, 6:04 pm

Yes, I like how specific that is. Good job. You should post that story...

StoryGirl · **Posted:** October 27th, 2009, 6:11 pm

Thanks. Maybe...

PrincessoftheKing · **Posted:** November 2nd, 2009, 3:35 pm

StoryGirl wrote:

In my worlds there are two kinds of power. The good kind, (Divinely granted gifts) and the bad kind, (demonic fueled magic).

My magic is very similar to that. The good characters are able to use "magic": because it is a gift from God, and the bad characters gain the use of magic by trying to control demons, though they often end being controlled themselves.

StoryGirl · **Posted:** November 2nd, 2009, 7:32 pm

The evil part sounds like real life magic.

PrincessoftheKing · **Posted:** November 2nd, 2009, 8:33 pm

Yeah, basically.

StoryGirl · **Posted:** November 9th, 2009, 10:17 pm

Nice.

Lady Eruwaedhiel · **Posted:** November 18th, 2009, 6:11 pm

My magic is kind of like the magic in Donita K. Paul's Dragonkeeper Chronicles...and the kind that we're talking about here. Good magic is a gift from God, and evil magic is a power from the Evil One. The name for God in my world is Quintor. (So called because all the elements-- Fire, Air, Earth, and Water-- have power. Fire breaks enchantments, Water breaks mental connections, and I haven't decided on the Air and Earth yet. But Quintor is the 'fifth element' and holds everything together.) I haven't decided on a name for Satan yet...maybe simply Evil One. The humans in my world have magical gifts from Quintor, (such as invisibility at will, communication with animals, maps, cooking/herbs, etc.) and the elves have added agility, longer lives, etc. typical to elves. They can choose disbelief in Quintor or the Evil One, which doesn't affect their gifts or the ability for magic, but like in our world they have a hole that needs to be filled with God. They aren't fullfilled until they find him. Make sense?

StoryGirl · **Posted:** November 21st, 2009, 3:03 pm

Wow, very interesting.

Lady Eruwaedhiel · **Posted:** November 23rd, 2009, 4:40 pm

I still have a lot of holes in it. For example, I need to figure out some limits to it...why my characters didn't use magic to solve some of their problems, why the villain doesn't just put a spell on the people s/he wants to dominate, etc.

Arias Mimetes · **Posted:** November 23rd, 2009, 6:29 pm

The character I just added to my story uses something that could be called magic, but it's just something that his race can do naturally. Yeah.... still working on that lol

StoryGirl · **Posted:** November 24th, 2009, 9:40 pm

It is a hard subject to figure out for a Christian or any other book.

Lord Kieren Mimetes · **Posted:** November 27th, 2009, 6:58 pm

In my book I don't think I'll be using any magic. (gasp) :shock:

Mostly because it saves me the headache and partly because it seems a little out of place in my world.

There can still be miracles though.

StoryGirl: I love that scene! Nice explanation.

StoryGirl · **Posted:** November 30th, 2009, 10:45 pm

Ya, my next story world won't have magic because it doesn't fit either. (And it can be a headache to figure out how it all works. :roll:

)

Thank you. I like how it turned out too.

Reueldreamseer · **Joined:** September 25th, 2009, 2:39 pm **Posts:** 57

In my world, magic is simply a built-in part of nature. Sort of like Eragon, there is one language that can be used to harness this element, and the more direct and concise you are with your wording the more likely you are to get the result you wanted. Does that make sense? And do you think that a magic inherent in nature should be usable by good and evil alike?

Whythawye · **Posted:** January 29th, 2010, 10:37 am

Reueldreamseer wrote:

In my world, magic is simply a built-in part of nature. Sort of like Eragon, there is one language that can be used to harness this element, and the more direct and concise you are with your wording the more likely you are to get the result you wanted. Does that make sense? And do you think that a magic inherent in nature should be usable by good and evil alike?

If the magic is inherent in nature, then it was put there by God, and so therefore it is better for good to use it than evil. The evil will corrupt it, and the good ought to seek to bring it back to the glory of God. Like in my stories.

Zoe M. Scrivener · **Posted:** January 30th, 2010, 8:09 pm

In my world, only Drochspior (my Satan-character) uses magic. The 'magic' that the other creatures use was given to them by Ri, so their 'magic' is really just abilities.

Neil of Erk · **Posted:** January 31st, 2010, 12:27 am

Raven of the Wood wrote:

In my world, only Drochspior (my Satan-character) uses magic. The 'magic' that the other creatures use was given to them by Ri, so their 'magic' is really just abilities.

Note: Please don't take this is a critique; I'm trying to be helpful but I fear I come off a bit rude.

Technically, if Drochspior's magic isn't natural ability, then it is implied that he is practicing magic from another source, which would necessarily be higher than himself (since the abilities aren't naturally his) and he is no longer a "type" of Satan since he is not the deepest in the practice of evil. If Satan practices magic which is outside of his angelic abilities then there must be another source of power which is also corrupt but more powerful than Satan; some kind of mystical evil.

We see this sort of thing a lot in secular fantasy, but as I've said elsewhere, evil as a force doesn't work because evil is merely the lack of good.

Sorry if that seems random or silly, I'm sick and it's after ten PM so my thoughts may be incoherent to people who aren't thinking the same thoughts.

Zoe M. Scrivener · **Posted:** January 31st, 2010, 6:42 pm

Hmm...I see your point. Maybe I can put it this way...

When Drochspior disguises himself as a lion, which he does in Cruthu, the lion uses magic that isn't ability, because a normal lion can't do what Drochspior does. However, Drochspior's magic is ability that is used for evil. Is that even more confusing now? Maybe I'll just have to concede that Drochspior's power is ability. :P

Note: The lion is not demon-possessed, Drochspior is merely taking on a lion-ish form.

Lord Kieren Mimetes · **Posted:** January 31st, 2010, 9:18 pm

Neil of Erk wrote:

Raven of the Wood wrote:

In my world, only Drochspior (my Satan-character) uses magic. The 'magic' that the other creatures use was given to them by Ri, so their 'magic' is really just abilities.

Note: Please don't take this is a critique; I'm trying to be helpful but I fear I come off a bit rude.

Technically, if Drochspior's magic isn't natural ability, then it is implied that he is practicing magic from another source, which would necessarily be higher than himself (since the abilities aren't naturally his) and he is no longer a "type" of Satan since he is not the deepest in the practice of evil. If Satan practices magic which is outside of his angelic abilities then there must be another source of power which is also corrupt but more powerful than Satan; some kind of mystical evil.

We see this sort of thing a lot in secular fantasy, but as I've said elsewhere, evil as a force doesn't work because evil is merely the lack of good.

Sorry if that seems random or silly, I'm sick and it's after ten PM so my thoughts may be incoherent to people who aren't thinking the same thoughts.

Never thought of it that way...

It makes perfect sense after you think about it a little

Yehoshua · **Posted:** February 16th, 2010, 11:28 am

I don't use a great deal of magic in most of my stories. However, when I do there are usually two kinds. One is of the Tolkien/Lewis flavor. This is power that is not based on the ability of mortals but the will of the Creator. Other times I'll use magic that is of either the devil or based on human strength. In which case, I always make sure that there are severe consequences.

Millardthemk · **Joined:** February 27th, 2010, 1:28 am **Posts:** 23

*thinks* I have a question for ye learned writers and readers. I have read a few topics, and am quite new here, but I have been impressed with forum-ers keeping the Bible/God totally involved in these tough topics, such as "are dragons evil, or good, or neither?" or this thread about "magic". I would voice a question, do we ever see magic used in a godly way in the Bible? I say we do not, but.....my point is more than that, why are we so eager, to Christianize magic? Now, I whole realize you folks have put a lotof thought into this, and I hate to dredge it up again, but, why are we so eager to bleach and bring magic in. I believe the topic of magic to be wholly different than the topic of dragons in the sense that magic is blatantly wrong in the Bible. So i ask......why "must" we, or why are we "so eager"(I am guilty as well) of trying to fit magic into our stories?

Greetings, I hope this was not too terrible of a first post for y'all to put up with

Evening L. Aspen · **Joined:** December 2nd, 2009, 11:01 pm **Posts:** 1461

Millardthemk wrote:

*thinks* I have a question for ye learned writers and readers. I have read a few topics, and an quite new here, but I have been impressed with forum-ers keeping the Bible/God totally involved in these tough topics, such as "are dragons evil, or good, or neither?" or this thread about "magic". I would voice a question, do we ever[i][/i] see magic used in a godly way in the Bible? I say we do not, but.....my point is more than that, why are we so eager, to Christianize magic? Now, I whole realize you folks have put alotof thought into this, and I hate to dredge it up again, but, why are we so eager to bleach and bring magic in. I believe the topic of magic to be wholly different than the topic of dragons in the sense that magic is blatantly wrong in the Bible. So i ask......why "must" we, or why are we "so eager"(I am guilty as well) of trying to fit magic into our stories?

Greetings, I hope this was not too terrible of a first post for yall to put up with

Welcome to the forum!

Though I can't say I personally am a "learned writer" (though just about everybody else here is.

), I do have a couple ideas.

I think that "magic" needs to be defined. Is 'magic' like the witchcraft in the Bible? Is it a natural part, a science, of the fantasy world? Is it a gift given by the God-figure in the fantasy world?

If magic is the first type, then I totally agree with you! If you are going to include this type of magic in your story, it MUST be shown as totally and utterly evil. Now, I do not know much about real-world witchcraft, nor do I have any desire to learn about it, so my knowledge of it is very limited.

If magic is the second type, a normal part of nature, then it needs to be limited. What does this type of 'magic' do? What is it's purpose? This is not something on which I have studied, so these are just my immediate observations and questions. I have not used, nor do I plan to use, this type of 'magic' in my story, though. (Not because it is wrong or unsound, but because it doesn't work with my storyline.)

If magic is the last type, a gift from God, then it really isn't magic, at least, not in our sense of the word. In this case, it's more like, and I hesitate to say this, the gifts given to Christians. Here is how I would use this type of 'magic': Upon 'conversion'/belief/surrender to God (in the case of the fantasy world), God endows the person with a certain ability, whether it be healing, dream-seeing, limited control of elements, etc.

I hope this makes sense. It's really late and I'm not even close to being a professional on this topic, so if I am wrong or don't make sense, please forgive me.

~ Evensong

Millardthemk · **Joined:** February 27th, 2010, 1:28 am **Posts:** 23

Ahh...Now here is the crux
"If magic is the first type, then I totally agree with you! If you are going to include this type of magic in your story, it MUST be shown as totally and utterly evil. Now, I do not know much about real-world witchcraft, nor do I have any desire to learn about it, so my knowledge of it is very limited.

If magic is the second type, a normal part of nature, then it needs to be limited. What does this type of 'magic' do? What is it's purpose? This is not something on which I have studied, so these are just my immediate observations and questions. I have not used, nor do I plan to use, this type of 'magic' in my story, though. (Not because it is wrong or unsound, but because it doesn't work with my storyline.)

If magic is the last type, a gift from God, then it really isn't magic, at least, not in our sense of the word. In this case, it's more like, and I hesitate to say this, the gifts given to Christians. Here is how I would use this type of 'magic': Upon 'conversion'/belief/surrender to God (in the case of the fantasy world), God endows the person with a certain ability, whether it be healing, dream-seeing, limited control of elements, etc."

We are still taking "magic" basely an wholly evil thing, and "changing" it. I suppose I am asking, why do we try to change it? Is it really our best course of action to take something entirely evil and make it "not evil"? Ye did a great job of a definition search, I am just thinking that perhaps this is not even the right idea, "Changing something we know to be Biblically evil, and making it good because we changeit.

*grins* Aye tis late, so me brain is mostly muddled anyway.

PrincessoftheKing · **Posted:** February 27th, 2010, 11:29 am

I pretty much agree with Evening L. Aspen, but there is one thing that I thought of.

When we say that "magic" is a natural part of our world, or a gift given by God, it's not really magic in that world. I believe that one of Jay's brothers named it Cobha. Cobha's something that is natural in that world, but not in our world. (Tell me if I messed that up, Jay!)

So, basically, if something is a natural, God-given ability, then it isn't evil (or even "magic", really).

Millardthemk · **Joined:** February 27th, 2010, 1:28 am **Posts:** 23

Marcher Lord: If tis not magic, let us not call it magic, or "magiks"

I wish to hear from one more person though before I let this horse drop.

Thanks
Millardthemk

Neil of Erk · **Posted:** February 27th, 2010, 12:11 pm

Millard, great to see you on here!

Please check out the "Cobha" thread. My "magic" at least isn't magic at all, it is simply something impossible in our world, made possible in my written world. In fact, my "Cobha" was original power endowed to an order of priest-protectors, but is now mostly abuse by those who are given it.

PrincessoftheKing · **Posted:** February 27th, 2010, 12:15 pm

Millardthemk wrote:

Marcher Lord: If tis not magic, let us not call it magic, or "magiks"

I agree; I do need to rename it in my world!

Lord Kieren Mimetes · **Posted:** February 27th, 2010, 1:05 pm

Welcome Millardthemk! I must say you have some interesting views and made me think of things I've never thought about. If you ask me, I would say that though it is a natural thing in the worlds we made up and not really magic, but the people in the worlds make up aren't really familiar with our world, so they would have a word for it (magic). That word would have to be something and when people in our world hear about it, they would classify it as magic because it sounds impossible or fantastical. Plus, Gandalf was said to use magic, even though it was simply an ability given to the maiar.

Millardthemk · **Joined:** February 27th, 2010, 1:28 am **Posts:** 23

"Personally, I don't much want to give anyone but my villains and angels supernatural powers, but if I did here's how I would do it.

Alchemy

Alchemy is the best way for a Christian to let their good guys use 'magic' and still not use 'magic'. Technically Alchemy is science not supernatural, but it still has a mysterious feel to it that is often attractive to those who want their main characters to fling fire balls or whatnot. I really can't see any disadvantage to it. So what do you guys think?"

My point,*laughs* is why do we try to make "magic" not "magic" we try to change is. Mold is, reform it, but what does the populace see it as? Magic. It just struck me as odd when I read this thread last night that people were trying so hard to "do magic well" or "God honoring Magic", on one hand I clap for them! This is a wonderful thing ye are trying to do, but....then I ponder....is it really the right course to change "magic" or perhaps we overlook an alternative.

Griffin:
" I would say that though it is a natural thing in the worlds we made up and not really magic, but the people in the worlds make up aren't really familiar with our world, so they would have a word for it (magic). That word would have to be something and when people in our world hear about it, they would classify it as magic because it sounds impossible or fantastical. Plus, Gandalf was said to use magic, even though it was simply an ability given to the maiar."

Now here I think ye have a point, things that people think are impossible, or fantastical could be a reason why even something that is not "Magic" is called Magic. Yet, EVERYBODY calls Gandalf a wizard, there is not argument there LOL. So saying that it was an ability doesn't really negate the effect on the reader

In conclusion, I like your idea, yet, I am not sure it really fixes the problem

(.

*grins* Thanks for the welcome!

Evening L. Aspen · **Joined:** December 2nd, 2009, 11:01 pm **Posts:** 1461

PrincessoftheKing wrote:

When we say that "magic" is a natural part of our world, or a gift given by God, it's not really magic in that world. I believe that one of Jay's brothers named it Cobha. Cobha's something that is natural in that world, but not in our world. (Tell me if I messed that up, Jay!)

So, basically, if something is a natural, God-given ability, then it isn't evil (or even "magic", really).

I think that's what I was trying to say.

~ Evensong

Yehoshua · **Posted:** February 27th, 2010, 5:49 pm

In the current story I'm working on I don't have any magic. However, in another one I did. There were two types, one from God and another from demons, sort of like others have said.

The 'magic' from God was given to specific people, at specific times for a specific purpose. There was an order and reason to it. Likewise, it was the original, pure magic. It was an expression of God's greatness.

However, the demonic magic was a corrupted and twisted version of God's magic. It had no purpose to it other than the temporary pleasure and benefit of the magician. There were always terrible consequences to all who used this sort of magic.

Millardthemk · **Joined:** February 27th, 2010, 1:28 am **Posts:** 23

I think perhaps I have not made meself clear lol. But alas, I shall shut me mouth....For now

Neil of Erk · **Posted:** February 27th, 2010, 7:03 pm

Magic: "the art of producing a desired effect or result through the use of incantation or various other techniques that presumably assure human control of supernatural agencies or the forces of nature."

In my magic, at least, there are no incantations, and no control of supernatural agencies. Mere control of the forces of nature is something God has occasional lent to prophets (within, and to the degree, of His allowances), and in fact we've almost achieved control of strong and weak nuclear force.

In short: The bible only forbids magic of a demonic, or deceptive, origin. There is no other kind of magic in the real world, and there is no other kind of magic in my world. Certain chosen people merely have greater control of their environment than most.

Whythawye · **Posted:** February 28th, 2010, 12:12 pm

Millardthemk wrote:

I think perhaps I have not made meself clear lol. But alas, I shall shut me mouth....For now

I actually understand exactly what you are trying to say, I believe, and I agree, for the most part.

Our focus really should not be on getting 'magic' to work in our worlds. Our focus should be on having a unique world that glorifies God. Part of that uniqueness would naturally include things that one could call 'magic' because it would be magic in our Familiarworld. But actually, people in your Otherworld would not really call it anything different, necessarily. It would be natural.

Of course there is other kinds of magic, like in our world. 'Black' magic.

Maybe I will expatiate further later.

StoryGirl · **Posted:** March 1st, 2010, 7:58 pm

Just thought I'd share this here. This is a post I made on my blog a few weeks ago about magic, what the Bible says about it, and how I deal with it in my stories. It does a better job of explaining things then my first try. Tell me about you think.

Writing for His Glory wrote:

The fantasy dilemma:

When it comes to writing your faith, fantasy is one of the hardest genres. Fantasy is all about magic, how it influences the world and the people who use it. We all know that there are fantasy books out there that are fine and others you want to steer clear of. If you are a Christian and you write fantasy, there are fine lines that shouldn’t be crossed. If you’re like me and fantasy is your niche, and you’re wondering, how do you keep it in a faith basted standard, here is what I discovered.

Magic: The Big M – What is it about this little word when it comes to Christianity? Well first of all, in Exodus 22:18 God tells the Israelites, “Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.” (Sorceress/er in other translations.) Umm, if God said that I’m guessing it’s bad. He goes on to say, “Do not practice divination or sorcery” (Leviticus 19:26), “Do not turn to mediums or seek out spiritists, for you will be defiled by them. I am the LORD your God” (Leviticus 19:31), “I will set my face against the person who turns to mediums and spiritists to prostitute himself by following them, and I will cut him off from his people” (Leviticus 20:6). God ends with saying, all mediums and spiritists must be put to death by stoning, “their blood will be on their own heads.”

Second, where do these people get their power? They’re not called spiritists for nothing. From spirits, aka demons, aka Satan.

This is the reason why I am against books/movie such as Harry Potter. The good guys are witches when God is very clear that witches ARE NOT GOOD!

Now, there are different kinds of “magic”. There is the fairy tale magic that is purely mythical. There are miracles, (but we all know they’re not magic.) Then there is real magic, and that is altogether evil.

My Solution: When I decided to write a fantasy my first decision was, I was NOT going to use magic, of any kind. Well… I discovered how hard a thing that really was. So this is what I did. I have sorcery in my fantasy novels, but it is ONLY USED BY THE VILLIANS. I DO NOT portray it as a GOOD THING. I show it for what it really is EVIL. (Plus it makes for an awesomely creepy villain.)

To read the full entry visit my blog here---> http://storygirlsblog.wordpress.com/2010/01/29/writing-by-faith-part-2/

Aris Hunter · **Posted:** March 4th, 2010, 3:43 pm

In one of my stories and its sequel, I've always referred to magic as God-given (a rare gift). When one is given the ability to use magic when he/she does nothing to receive it, and has to discover it and learn how to control it properly and in the right way. It's usually things such as controlling water, fire, and so on (I've used levitation once, though).

On the other hand, there's the kind that people make themselves to learn, to acquire through dark means (which just isn't healthy, anyway). They try to force magic upon them, when it's something God hasn't chosen to give them.

Could there also be "neutral" magic? Magic that isn't good or bad? It's just.... there?

Lord Kieren Mimetes · **Posted:** March 18th, 2010, 7:49 am

Zoey Lillylight wrote:

In one of my stories and its sequel, I've always referred to magic as God-given (a rare gift). When one is given the ability to use magic when he/she does nothing to receive it, and has to discover it and learn how to control it properly and in the right way. It's usually things such as controlling water, fire, and so on (I've used levitation once, though).

On the other hand, there's the kind that people make themselves to learn, to acquire through dark means (which just isn't healthy, anyway). They try to force magic upon them, when it's something God hasn't chosen to give them.

Could there also be "neutral" magic? Magic that isn't good or bad? It's just.... there?

The neutral magic would be a simple part of nature.

If you're saying that it would be something that isn't explainable, but not evil or good either, then you first need to say what you mean by evil or good. Second, if it is a part of nature, how could it not be evil or good? Like a bush. It isn't evil or good as in that it does good deeds, but at creation, God still dubbed bushes as good. When the fall came, man plunged all nature into evil. That bush could be evil in the sense that it is poisonous and could kill someone.

I hope I answered your question well.

Whythawye · **Posted:** March 19th, 2010, 12:13 pm

Inesdar wrote:

There are three types of magic in the end.

Good- from God
Neutral- part of nature
Evil- Demonic

It's pretty much up to the author which one they want to use. All three are possible. That's pretty much what Tolkien did.

Actually, in the end, there is only one: from God.

If something is part of nature, then God put it there for us to use for His glory (although it can be used for evil). That is how demons (and angels) got their power, although it isn't meant for us to use, only for them. Sometimes God steps out of His natural way of doing things (His natural laws) in a miracle (which is outside of our power and always good).

The only way that any of the above (except wrongfully using demonic power) can be called magic is for God to have designed that world with different natural laws (so that some things that would need to be miracles, are natural, or vice versa). Thus: cobha.

But I see what you mean, although I think it isn't super helpful to delineate it that way.

Aris Hunter · **Posted:** March 19th, 2010, 2:17 pm

I think it answers my question. When I had asked, a certain part of a story I wrote was in my mind then, but after reading your comment, Griffin, I think what I thought to be neutral is probably the good kind. I'm gonna have to think about that more...

Lord Kieren Mimetes · **Posted:** March 19th, 2010, 7:29 pm

Zoey Lillylight wrote:

I think it answers my question. When I had asked, a certain part of a story I wrote was in my mind then, but after reading your comment, Griffin, I think what I thought to be neutral is probably the good kind. I'm gonna have to think about that more...

Glad I could help!

"Magic"

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