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 Post subject: Dragons in the Shine Cycle
PostPosted: September 26th, 2012, 5:39 am 
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In my Shine Cycle, dragons are more often heard of than seen. Even only a century into the world’s history, within living memory of man’s first steps on the two continents, dragons already seem to be more creatures of myth than of life, of the mists of legend more than the green lands with which my tales are usually concerned. But, as Aragorn put it in The Two Towers, “may not a man do both?”---walk on the green earth, yet meet with legends?

It’s not that dragons are born ancient; rather, it’s that the dragons that first settled the hills and mountains of the Shine and Wild Continents and their surrounding islands, scarcely as soon as the War of the Rebellion had ceased to deform the shape of the land, were already old. A few younger and greedier individuals strayed too close to Tashere’s prison and were ensnared, and it is from those, now utterly bent and largely exhausted of power, that the Dragon Empire took its name.

But we shouldn't let the few examples of twisted beings---not all of which were brought under Tashere’s direct control---convince us that every dragon is evil. Most---and particularly the older, wiser ones---desired nothing more than to live in peace, making what profit they could, but content to let the world pass them by, as other worlds had. And indeed, some who found themselves within the lands that Tashere’s power claimed for him withdrew from the world entirely until his might had failed there.

Of course, there are not simply “good” dragons and “bent” dragons. There are also those that give the kind a bad name, who are little more than beasts, and as such a grave danger to anyone and anything nearby. Under the influence of an old and powerful dragon, these lesser breeds can sometimes be tamed to some extent, but usually they are simply driven off into the wilderness or, if this proves futile, they are hunted and put down.

A dragon---at least, a free, wise dragon---is almost a force of nature. The usual way of things need not necessarily apply to or around it; there are enough tales of lightning striking dragon-hunting parties from a clear sky, or mountain passes closing up, or climate patterns changing to form glaciers, to give any sensible person pause. Not that any of these things happened lightly, or because the dragon “didn’t know its own strength,” but trusting that a creature is wise, just, and honorable does not mean that it is safe to deal with capriciously. Dragons can be firm and useful allies; one alone can be the equal of a fortified hill, after all. But they do not necessarily think the way that humans, or even Great Fairies, do. Some of the oldest and wisest dragons feel their closest kinship of mind and spirit to the greatest of the Vaynar.

Dragons tend to accumulate color, texture, and even to some extent personality from the surroundings in which they place themselves, by chance or design. The longer one has been in an area, the harder it is to find when it does not wish to be found. Each dragon also eventually finds itself seeking something---for “bent” dragons this is generally power, and for younger and more foolish dragons for a time it may well be money. But many are driven to find rarities, or knowledge, or artifacts of the Power, and a few even seek companionship. When these desires are not bent, they are often for a purpose: several times in the history of the Shine and Wild Empire and its allies, a neighboring dragon has opened its hoard and by giving generously averted disaster, whether defeat in war or famine.

Any questions or thoughts?

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Originally inspired to write by reading C.S. Lewis, but can be as perfectionist as Tolkien or as obscure as Charles Williams.

Author of A Year in Verse, a self-published collection of poetry: available in paperback and on Kindle; a second collection forthcoming in 2022 or 2023, God willing (betas wanted!).

Creator of the Shine Cycle, an expansive fantasy planned series, spanning over two centuries of an imagined world's history, several universes (including various alternate histories and our own future), and the stories of dozens of characters (many from our world).

Developer of Strategic Primer, a strategy/simulation game played by email; currently in a redesign phase after the ending of "the current campaign" in 2022.

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 Post subject: Re: Dragons in the Shine Cycle
PostPosted: September 26th, 2012, 6:43 pm 
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Wow, I absolutely loved that. You've obviously done a great deal of planning for your stories, something which strengthens their foundation. I like the fact that you include different types of dragons, some being good, others "bent", and others interested only in seeking their own gain. It helps make them stand out from the prototypical dragons you're used to encountering in fantasy. The line about "trusting that a creature is wise, just, and honorable does not mean that it is safe to deal with capriciously" reminded me of Aslan from the Chronicles of Narnia.

Having no knowledge of your world, I would ask who Tashere is.

You mentioned that the dragons settled the hills and mountains, but where did the dragons originate from? Or are the chronicles vague on that point? ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Dragons in the Shine Cycle
PostPosted: September 26th, 2012, 7:13 pm 
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Lord Tarin wrote:
I like the fact that you include different types of dragons, some being good, others "bent", and others interested only in seeking their own gain.

Note that these aren't really different "types" of dragons any more than "virtuous" and "amoral" name different "types" of human beings. I dithered as to whether this thread belonged in the Bestiary or in Peoples, Races, and Tribes---because dragons are (especially as they continue to mature) sort of like a cross between a "race" and forces of nature.
Lord Tarin wrote:
It helps make them stand out from the prototypical dragons you're used to encountering in fantasy.

My modus operandi in worldbuilding is often to adopt some of the standard tropes, and turn others on their heads ... for another example, see my thread on dwarves.
Lord Tarin wrote:
The line about "trusting that a creature is wise, just, and honorable does not mean that it is safe to deal with capriciously" reminded me of Aslan from the Chronicles of Narnia.

That may even have been where I got the idea :)

Lord Tarin wrote:
Having no knowledge of your world, I would ask who Tashere is.

He's sort-of, almost like the equivalent of Satan---except that until quite late in the world's history he's the temporal ruler (dictator) of what's called the Dragon Empire.

Lord Tarin wrote:
You mentioned that the dragons settled the hills and mountains, but where did the dragons originate from? Or are the chronicles vague on that point? ;)

The thing about the world of the Shine Cycle is that just about everybody and everything above a certain level came from some other world. (Lots of kinds of ordinary plants and animals didn't---and that's one of the areas where my worldbuilding is weakest at present---but all the races and most of the intelligent creatures did.) At the start, there were lots of portals, gates, thin places, etc., such that a family here, a wagon train there, a dragon over there, etc., would just stumble through and find themselves in this new world. But as the world ages these places become much less common.

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Originally inspired to write by reading C.S. Lewis, but can be as perfectionist as Tolkien or as obscure as Charles Williams.

Author of A Year in Verse, a self-published collection of poetry: available in paperback and on Kindle; a second collection forthcoming in 2022 or 2023, God willing (betas wanted!).

Creator of the Shine Cycle, an expansive fantasy planned series, spanning over two centuries of an imagined world's history, several universes (including various alternate histories and our own future), and the stories of dozens of characters (many from our world).

Developer of Strategic Primer, a strategy/simulation game played by email; currently in a redesign phase after the ending of "the current campaign" in 2022.

Read my blog!


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 Post subject: Re: Dragons in the Shine Cycle
PostPosted: September 26th, 2012, 9:52 pm 
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I like your dragons, especially these traits:

kingjon wrote:
A dragon---at least, a free, wise dragon---is almost a force of nature. The usual way of things need not necessarily apply to or around it; there are enough tales of lightning striking dragon-hunting parties from a clear sky, or mountain passes closing up, or climate patterns changing to form glaciers, to give any sensible person pause.

And:

kingjon wrote:
Dragons tend to accumulate color, texture, and even to some extent personality from the surroundings in which they place themselves, by chance or design. The longer one has been in an area, the harder it is to find when it does not wish to be found.


What do the dragons eat?

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 Post subject: Re: Dragons in the Shine Cycle
PostPosted: September 26th, 2012, 9:58 pm 
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Jonathan Garner wrote:
I like your dragons, especially these traits:

Thank you.
Jonathan Garner wrote:
What do the dragons eat?

:blush: That I don't know. Their basic diet is probably that of the apex predator of their preferred habitats, I suspect, possibly adjusted because they're not quite in the same categories as other creatures, but that's purely speculation. (I might have something about this question buried in my notes somewhere, but if so I haven't looked at it in a year or so.)

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Originally inspired to write by reading C.S. Lewis, but can be as perfectionist as Tolkien or as obscure as Charles Williams.

Author of A Year in Verse, a self-published collection of poetry: available in paperback and on Kindle; a second collection forthcoming in 2022 or 2023, God willing (betas wanted!).

Creator of the Shine Cycle, an expansive fantasy planned series, spanning over two centuries of an imagined world's history, several universes (including various alternate histories and our own future), and the stories of dozens of characters (many from our world).

Developer of Strategic Primer, a strategy/simulation game played by email; currently in a redesign phase after the ending of "the current campaign" in 2022.

Read my blog!


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 Post subject: Re: Dragons in the Shine Cycle
PostPosted: September 27th, 2012, 2:20 pm 
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kingjon wrote:
I dithered as to whether this thread belonged in the Bestiary or in Peoples, Races, and Tribes---because dragons are (especially as they continue to mature) sort of like a cross between a "race" and forces of nature.


If they're sentient (as I'm assuming they are) then they should probably go in PR&T, but I'm not at all sure. Let me get a second opinion on that.

Regarding the dragons themselves - I love it. These are some of the best and most interesting dragons I've seen in a fantasy work. They're recognizable enough from legends and accepted characteristics of dragons, but you still have plenty of quirks unique to your particular brand. :D

The part about dragons as allies and dragons using their hoards to help people especially intrigued me. Any notable examples?

kingjon wrote:
Each dragon also eventually finds itself seeking something---for “bent” dragons this is generally power, and for younger and more foolish dragons for a time it may well be money. But many are driven to find rarities, or knowledge, or artifacts of the Power, and a few even seek companionship.


This reminded me of Jessica Day George's Dragon Slippers and following books. None of her dragons collected anything a conventional dragon would - one collected shoes, another collected stained glass windows, another collected old scrolls, and yet another collected puppies. ;) Needless to say this provided quite a few well-used opportunities for humor throughout the books.

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 Post subject: Re: Dragons in the Shine Cycle
PostPosted: September 27th, 2012, 2:31 pm 
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Eleutheria Mimetes wrote:
kingjon wrote:
I dithered as to whether this thread belonged in the Bestiary or in Peoples, Races, and Tribes---because dragons are (especially as they continue to mature) sort of like a cross between a "race" and forces of nature.


If they're sentient (as I'm assuming they are) then they should probably go in PR&T, but I'm not at all sure. Let me get a second opinion on that.

They're sentient, but they're sort of like the Talking Animals, only even more foreign/alien. And dragons are traditional entries in a "bestiary." :)

Eleutheria Mimetes wrote:
Regarding the dragons themselves - I love it. These are some of the best and most interesting dragons I've seen in a fantasy work. They're recognizable enough from legends and accepted characteristics of dragons, but you still have plenty of quirks unique to your particular brand. :D

That's the idea ... :)

Eleutheria Mimetes wrote:
The part about dragons as allies and dragons using their hoards to help people especially intrigued me. Any notable examples?

In a fragmentary draft of one of the later stories, the characters immediately deduce that an invasion of an allied country was just a feint because the attacking force was destroyed with no trouble by a friendly dragon who lived near the border.

Eleutheria Mimetes wrote:
kingjon wrote:
Each dragon also eventually finds itself seeking something---for “bent” dragons this is generally power, and for younger and more foolish dragons for a time it may well be money. But many are driven to find rarities, or knowledge, or artifacts of the Power, and a few even seek companionship.


This reminded me of Jessica Day George's Dragon Slippers and following books. None of her dragons collected anything a conventional dragon would - one collected shoes, another collected stained glass windows, another collected old scrolls, and yet another collected puppies. ;) Needless to say this provided quite a few well-used opportunities for humor throughout the books.

I haven't seen those books before; something that might have made me think of this is that in Mercedes Lackey's "Five Hundred Kingdoms" series (The Fairy Godmother and sequels), we eventually meet some "Bookwyrms," which are dragons who collect books instead of other treasure.

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Originally inspired to write by reading C.S. Lewis, but can be as perfectionist as Tolkien or as obscure as Charles Williams.

Author of A Year in Verse, a self-published collection of poetry: available in paperback and on Kindle; a second collection forthcoming in 2022 or 2023, God willing (betas wanted!).

Creator of the Shine Cycle, an expansive fantasy planned series, spanning over two centuries of an imagined world's history, several universes (including various alternate histories and our own future), and the stories of dozens of characters (many from our world).

Developer of Strategic Primer, a strategy/simulation game played by email; currently in a redesign phase after the ending of "the current campaign" in 2022.

Read my blog!


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 Post subject: Re: Dragons in the Shine Cycle
PostPosted: September 27th, 2012, 2:34 pm 
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Bookwyrms. Cute. :rofl:

S'pose I'll keep it in Bestiary, then, at least until Milly's back; then I'll ask her about it. :)

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2 Corinthians 3:17 ~ Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

eleutheria - Greek for liberty

My blog:
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A fan of my book?
http://facebook.com/wingstrilogy/


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 Post subject: Re: Dragons in the Shine Cycle
PostPosted: November 14th, 2012, 8:36 pm 
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These are really neat! I like your dragons. ^_^ They remind me a bit of my elves.. o.O


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