Here's the first scenario: You're watching a Youtube video, and Villain A steps onto the scene. Down in the comment section, viewers have posted things like "That guy is just awesum", or "YAY HE'S BACK".
Enter Villain B, the other villain in the show. Now, in the comment section, you see words such as "EW get away", or "Oh, no, not him again".

Here's the second scenario: You're reading a book. During scenes with Villain A, despite hating what he does to the good guys, you feel warm, fuzzy, sympathetic feelings toward him. When Villain B shows up, you shrivel up in disgust and fear and think all manner of ill thoughts toward him.

In these two scenarios, we see showcased two types of antagonists. Often only one type of villain will star in a movie or book, but it is very common for the two to share. In these cases, the hated villain is usually large and in charge, and the lovable villain is the sidekick. In a Christian-based story, the lovable villain gets redeemed, while the hated villain suffers a horrible (and very just) fate.

What are the differences between these two kinds of characters?
What makes us like one and hate or fear the other? They usually do the same things.
Do you have a lovable villain + hated villain setup in your story?

Ooooo. *eyes widen*

I love villain threads. *pauses uncertainly* Though what that says about me I'm not sure I like...

*shrugs*

I'll post when I've thought this over a bit.

*settles down to watch expectantly*

Hmmmm, this is very interesting!

Maybe it's because there's something in Villain A--a certain characteristic? a pet peeve? an ever-present emotion? a memory in the past?--that we can relate to or something that we share.

Or maybe it's because we see that Villain A has a chance for improvement, that his character--though he may at first have a cold heart and a rough demeanor--is slowly changing as the story unfolds.

Or maybe...there's just something in his character that is so compelling that we find ourselves hoping that he would eventually arrive at a certain point in his life where he would realize his errors and thus reform.

I have no idea. Let me muddle this over, and perhaps I shall say something more later.

...Come to think of it now, it's kind of hard to explain why. Even if I realize I have a list of favorite villains myself.

What are the differences between these two kinds of characters?
What makes us like one and hate or fear the other? They usually do the same things.
Do you have a lovable villain + hated villain setup in your story?


In reading stories, the lovable villain is always someone I can relate to. There is some emotion or motivation that causes me to really relate to him/her. Motivation is probably the key thing, because if you can see why someone is the way they are, even if they're making the wrong choices you can respect/understand them. Also, some of them are just funny and so clever that you wish they were on your side. Some lovable villains are just so pitiable that you feel bad for them.

Personally, I have at least one hated villain in all of my stories. However, I like to have a hierarchy. You think the bad guy's bad until you find out he's got a boss. Normally I like to have my lovable villain work for the hated villain--he's normally either just so cool and mysterious that you like him or so comical and clever that you pity him.

It is interesting! And also a bit hard to explain. I understand where you are coming from, Alyssa.

I think that is part of what makes the difference. The loveable villian has to do something that makes me care about him for me to like him and want the lovable villain to have a happy ending.

For one thing, if the villain had a hard childhood or a very hurtful experience in his past that explains his character and actions, I am more likely to pity or like them. And if then there are the humorous ones.
I think one reason we may like villains returning (the youtube comments of excitement due to the return of the villain) is because it means new adventures. That is all the villain seems to mean - new adventures and thrills. The villain isn't actually tearing apart lives and destroying love or inciting hate. They are providing fodder for adventures. Not necessarily bad; my villains are more along the lines of adventure-providers than anything else. They are not especially malicious.

Hey, that makes sense. The lovable villain will not be sucking the hope out of you, or messing with your humanity, or anything like that. He's just here to provide future viewing pleasure.

Okay, we've come up with very good reasons why we like the lovable villain. But, what exactly is it that makes us hate the hated villain so much?
(By hate him, I mean wishing he would just go away, and you'd be happy if you never saw him again. Like the Joker, maybe?)

My hated villains tend to be slightly psychotic. By this I mean, they're not just "bad". A lot of people are bad, but villains are wrought when the bad is taken to extremes. Personally my villains tend to prey on innocents, particularly women and children. Their evil also tends to be in forms beyond just ruthless killing, but more methodical, purposeful murders or torture. Another way I like to make villains hated is by showing how they hurt others. For example, I have one villain who likes to torture/kill someone's loved one (husband/wife, fiancee, whatever) in front of them. It's a worse sort of pain than just being killed but seeing someone who you love more than life itself die before you... excruciating. Some of my hated villains are also just plain messed up. Some of them are perverted and revert to the basest of instincts. These villains are often the lamest but the most vile at the same time--you hate them for their dirtiness. Anyhow, just my thoughts...

*nods thoughtfully*

Hmmm...I'll take a shot at it, using three villains that I can think of right now that I really do not like, and try to figure out why I don't like them.

1) Joker (cold-blooded/black-hearted) -- seriously, anyone would like Joker, and without any practical reason (I can't even think of any), in my opinion would have to be...weird. He's a villain I really, really hate (okay, not that strongly, but I certainly do not like him). I'd be happier if his 9 lives would cease and all of Gotham City could live in peace without such a terrible tormentor.

What makes him so "hate-able" is because...of his inhuman ways. He seems like the type of person who enjoys watching other people suffer. He has no mercy, has no love. His enjoyment is torturing people, watching people suffer through pain (whether physically or emotionally). It's hard to like a cold-blooded, black-hearted villain like him.

2) Gaston (arrogant) (from Beauty and the Beast) is a Villain B type of villain as well. I think what I dislike most is his arrogance. He is so full of himself; he thinks of no one but himself. He might not be as cruel and cold-hearted as Joker--not enough to commit murder, that is, but I think his cruelty lies in another sort of way, the cruelty that likes being in control of things, being on top of things, regardless of how many people get trampled in the process.

3) Denethor (heartless) (Boromir and Faramir's father) -- is another villain that I find difficult to love. Perhaps it is partly because he favors Boromir over Faramir (and I like Faramir better, hehe). But I think it's more of because the way he treated Faramir. He never recognized Faramir's accomplishments, always praising Boromir instead. He never allowed Faramir to do something big, but always gave the more favorable tasks to Boromir. And when he said that he wished Faramir had died in Boromir's stead, I almost flew to the TV screen and smacked him. He's heartless where he is not concerned, and where his wishes and desires are not concerned. He's okay with Boromir, because Boromir's his favorite son, and he feels his favorite can get him everything he wants. But he's not okay with Faramir, and because he's not okay, then he thinks it must be all right to treat Faramir terribly. C'mon, what kind of father would think of setting his son--who is alive, but just in a feverish sleep--on fire so that "the line of stewards is now ended"? (or something like that) So you can see I have this bitter grudge against him.

Let me put my thinking cap on, and I might get back.

*lightbulb* I remember my literature class where we learned the different elements and the kinds of characters in a story. Our teacher mentioned characters who were foils of each other. Like Sam and Gollum. One is meant to make the other look good, and in turn, that other is meant to make the one look bad (okay, not really, but to bring out traits that would show their opposites). Maybe the reason why we dislike type B villains so much is because they are foil/s of the main character/s. And if we like the main character so much, then, naturally, we would dislike the villainous counterpart, especially if his objective is to thwart the main character from succeeding.

I don't know...just a thought.

*cough* Psychotic or psychopathic? *psychology nerd*

I think it's because the hated bad guy has no redeeming traits we can relate to, or if he does, we don't know of it. Or, he thoroughly enjoys his villainy and doesn't want to turn back.

The beloved bad guys, I think, may be mostly antagonists, and not bad guys. They oppose the hero, but they're not evil or anything. Just on the wrong side.
(Darth Maul is an exception)

Valid point. I guess I was referring to psycopathy, but some of them are psychotic as well. =)

Okay. Just wanted to make sure.

So, we hate the hated villain because he is Evil. He is sadistic, with no conscience and no pity. He seems to have little sense of humanity.

Let's think of beloved villain/hated villain pairs, and share thoughts about why we hated one and liked the other.

Interesting. For me, the bad guys that I love seeing are usually the ice-blooded, darkness embracers, and sadistic villains that makes sarcastic jokes as they slice up their innocent victims.

The Joker is one of my favorite villains. He's got such a... profoundness about him *decides to not continue discussing that note since it would be off-topic*.

Gaston would be a villain I despise, while Denethor would be one I pity, though maybe with an essence of disgust.

And a good thought it was!

I think another thing that makes hated bad guys hated is that they are so evil they have no hope of ever turning good again.

An example is the antagonist from Les Miserables, Javart. He was a bad guy, relentlessly chasing Jean Valjean. But you start to care for him, and when Javart sees that the man he was chasing is actually a good, honest man, Javart's life is thrown upside down. He can hardly fathom the fact that he has been wrong all this time, and it's terribly sad when he commits suicide.

So while Javart is not the funny, humorous villain who is likeable because of that, you end up caring for him all the same. I think it's because you realize that he was a really good man, just with a warped view of Jean Valjean. That is why it's so sad when he dies.

Good thoughts everyone! I love discussing things like this.

In regards to "The Hated Bad Guy" (THBG),I really, really dislike this character being used at all. Unless he is meant to represent evil incarnate/Satan, very few writers can pull THBG off well without turning him into a caricature or a two dimensional character whose purpose is to give the hero something to do.

Characteristics of The Hated Bad Guy

Depraved
THBG is dastardly to the extreme, the worst of the worst, the scummiest scum of the earth. He does the worst things imaginable, in the most creative ways possible, and enjoys every minute of it. There is nothing good about THBG. He is bereft of all decency, and everything about him reeks of evil. Even he knows he's evil, and he doesn't care!


Developed To a Lesser Extent
THBG's are static characters. They don't change, and they don't want to change. They are too evil to be redeemed and they like it that way.

Often, they have little to no backstory, we don't know why they are the aforementioned psychopaths they are, or if there ever was a chance for their becoming something else.

Thus their motives are sometimes vague and unsatisfactory, (i.e. revenge for some ancient wrong, the sheer pleasure of murdering/victimizing people). At the very mildest, their motives are bad and are not the kind that normal people usually cite for their evil doing.


Disgusting
Usually THBG is hideous. At the very least, there's something weird or "obviously wrong" about him. He is not only inwardly vile, but outwardly as well.

On the other hand you have "The Beloved Bad Guy" (TBBG)...

Characteristics of The Beloved Bad Guy

Flawed
TBBG is not "pure evil" and does not see himself as in the wrong. Instead, he has "flaws", "quirks", and "weaknesses". It's true, that he often does very bad things, and causes serious problems, but so do all sinful human beings. Whatever atrocity TBBG has committed it is never severe enough to make you forget his other very admirable qualities...

Fantastically Developed
Which leads me to speak of TBBG's wonderful personality. Along with the bad, we see the good in him. Maybe he rescued a turtle from being crushed in the road, or he truly loves his daughter, even if the way he shows it is less than perfect. We as the readers actually get to KNOW him! We know he has a great sense of humor, and a thing for fine chocolate. We understand how his fear of dogs started in early childhood when his abusive first cousin twice removed would sic his rottweiler on him, (That's a backstory by the way.) and we know his inner thoughts, self-doubts, and dreams. By knowing him so well, he gets attached to our heart strings.

Fabulous
Usually, TBBG is physically attractive (hence the "bad boy" stereotype), or at least not repulsive. Maybe he has the cutest smile ever, or she's a sweet little old lady. TBBG is not inwardly monstrous, and he is not outwardly either.

An insightful idea that I had not taken notice of before:

So you're suggesting that we hate certain villains because they bring out bad traits in our heroes. Yes...that makes sense. It also gives opportunity for character growth in the course of the story, which I always love. But if the hero gave in to temptation, and the story ended there, then I would hate the ending because it means the villain---evil---won.