Login | Register







Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 20 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: What? He's...dead?
PostPosted: December 5th, 2011, 12:42 am 
Foundational Member
Foundational Member
User avatar

Joined: March 6th, 2011, 10:29 pm
Posts: 2192
Location: Texas
One effect I long for in all my stories is to make the reader care every time anyone dies. I want my reader to feel a twinge of guilt, or at least go, "Aw, man."

Not only that, but I want my readers to feel a moment of disbelief, and then grief, right along with the character when someone near to them dies. (Yeah, I know. Mean.)

Do you understand what I mean? Too often in a book, or a movie, a secondary character is introduced. Someone important and dear to the main character. For example, the character's father. But something about the way the character talks, or acts, lets you know that this character is likely to be killed off. You are not going to care much when he dies. The character is already dead to you. You only care about the MC.

I don't want that! I want my reader to assume that this character has an important role in the story, that he is an interesting, likable, and growable character, with feelings and hopes. I want my reader, in the early stages of setting up the plot, to know that this character is a pillar in the foundation.
And that if this character died, it would leave a gaping, aching hole. Just like it does for the MC.
When the death happens, you don't just go, "Aw, that's sad. I feel sorry for the MC". You feel a moment of shocked disbelief. Then grief. You feel with the MC, because you cared about that character the same way he did. And you will join the MC in patching his life back together. Empathy. Showing, not telling.

But how to achieve this?
One book I've read achieved this very well. It's called Alone Yet Not Alone, by Tracy M. Leininger. I'm not totally sure how she did it, but getting into the character's point of view for a while probably helped. Somehow, the character seemed a solid part of the MC's life. I felt confidence in him. Know what I mean? And when the MC got the news, there was no "Grief exploded inside her" immediately. Indeed, there was no comment on the MC's feelings until several sentences later, allowing me to feel the feelings for her, instead of watching as she felt them.

Can you help me? What makes this effect?

_________________
So.
It has come to this.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What? He's...dead?
PostPosted: December 5th, 2011, 12:49 am 
Foundational Member
Foundational Member
User avatar

Joined: March 6th, 2011, 10:29 pm
Posts: 2192
Location: Texas
I think I'm starting to get at what does this. This happens when you care about this secondary character---not because the MC does, but because you do. You love the secondary character, and you will feel shocked grief at his death, whether the MC does or not. I guess an author achieves this by making him a 3-D character instead of 2-D. But how?

_________________
So.
It has come to this.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What? He's...dead?
PostPosted: December 5th, 2011, 11:33 am 
Captain
Captain
User avatar

Joined: January 19th, 2011, 10:06 am
Posts: 3652
Location: Colorado, currently
Discord Username: Varon
I don't know. It's a good thing to think about and work towards.

_________________
I have not come to raise hell, but to bring your false Eden crashing down around your ears- Undecided project


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What? He's...dead?
PostPosted: December 5th, 2011, 3:29 pm 
Writer
Writer
User avatar

Joined: December 22nd, 2010, 3:46 pm
Posts: 760
Location: Washington State
Trying to understand here. Are you wanting to know how to handle a death so that the reader cares, or are you wanting to know how to create a character the reader cares about, or both? (If the second, I'm afraid the answer is just "make a good character." Easy, right?)

_________________
"For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "Plans for welfare and not for calamity, to give you a future and a hope." --Jeremiah 29:11

Tumblr: http://curlyhumility.tumblr.com


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What? He's...dead?
PostPosted: December 5th, 2011, 4:34 pm 
Foundational Member
Foundational Member
User avatar

Joined: March 6th, 2011, 10:29 pm
Posts: 2192
Location: Texas
Kathrine Roid wrote:
Trying to understand here. Are you wanting to know how to handle a death so that the reader cares, or are you wanting to know how to create a character the reader cares about, or both?
Choice number one. I want the reader to feel the same feelings the MC is feeling, instead of just going, "Oh, poor MC."

_________________
So.
It has come to this.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What? He's...dead?
PostPosted: December 15th, 2011, 6:58 pm 
Editor
Editor
User avatar

Joined: March 15th, 2011, 12:44 pm
Posts: 1387
Location: Michigan
:P I hate when characters are so flat you just KNOW they are going to die. :P I suppose you have to write them with the same (if not more) care as other characters. No one cares if you kill a flat charrie.

~ZA

_________________
~ Ophelia - Marie Flowers

Note: Mimetes is Greek for an imitator or follower: I am a follower of Jesus Christ, seeking to be zeal aspiring in everything I do, so God may be glorified.

I help organize HW group Skype Calls. Feel free to message me for details if you'd like to join us.

My blog of mostly poetry: Za Blogging
My blog of random things I want to say and share: Opinions, Thoughts, And General Rambling


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What? He's...dead?
PostPosted: December 15th, 2011, 9:50 pm 
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: November 16th, 2009, 9:13 pm
Posts: 2045
Location: Eniret
A certain author I'm fond of (*cough*WayneThomasBatson*cough*) had a set of twins that echoed each other all the time - they thought the same way, acted the same way, did everything together. The characters only got interesting after one of them died. :rofl:

_________________
2 Corinthians 3:17 ~ Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

eleutheria - Greek for liberty

My blog:
http://exhortationsbyelizabeth.blogspot.com
A fan of my book?
http://facebook.com/wingstrilogy/


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What? He's...dead?
PostPosted: December 16th, 2011, 9:09 pm 
Captain
Captain
User avatar

Joined: January 19th, 2011, 10:06 am
Posts: 3652
Location: Colorado, currently
Discord Username: Varon
*sniffle* I remember those two. It was quite a shock when he died.

_________________
I have not come to raise hell, but to bring your false Eden crashing down around your ears- Undecided project


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What? He's...dead?
PostPosted: December 17th, 2011, 12:37 pm 
Grease Monkeys
Grease Monkeys
User avatar

Joined: June 18th, 2010, 10:37 pm
Posts: 5545
Location: Kentucky
I accomplish this by not killing the characters you expect to die and picking on the person you never, ever expected... in theory, at least. Hence why so many of my MCs end up dead at the end of a novel. :roll:

_________________
Floyd was frozen where he stood. He struggled to breathe, but the air smelled of blood and death and guilt. He tried to formulate a name, to ask, but language was meaningless, and words would not come. He tried to scream but the sound got stuck in his heart, shattered into a million pieces, and scattered to the wind.

In a world without superheroes, who will stand against the forces of evil?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What? He's...dead?
PostPosted: December 17th, 2011, 7:37 pm 
Foundational Member
Foundational Member
User avatar

Joined: March 6th, 2011, 10:29 pm
Posts: 2192
Location: Texas
Ophelia MirZA Shaye wrote:
:P I hate when characters are so flat you just KNOW they are going to die.
YES! And this happens way too often with the MC's parents. They are there, say a few loving words, give some good advice, and then die. And we don't care. :'( I want to care!

_________________
So.
It has come to this.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What? He's...dead?
PostPosted: December 17th, 2011, 8:07 pm 
Editor
Editor
User avatar

Joined: March 15th, 2011, 12:44 pm
Posts: 1387
Location: Michigan
Aemi wrote:
Ophelia MirZA Shaye wrote:
:P I hate when characters are so flat you just KNOW they are going to die.
YES! And this happens way too often with the MC's parents. They are there, say a few loving words, give some good advice, and then die. And we don't care. :'( I want to care!


:P I don't know how to write adults well at all. When I really think about it, I can't name a book where I cared when the parents died. . . . :P

~ZA

_________________
~ Ophelia - Marie Flowers

Note: Mimetes is Greek for an imitator or follower: I am a follower of Jesus Christ, seeking to be zeal aspiring in everything I do, so God may be glorified.

I help organize HW group Skype Calls. Feel free to message me for details if you'd like to join us.

My blog of mostly poetry: Za Blogging
My blog of random things I want to say and share: Opinions, Thoughts, And General Rambling


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What? He's...dead?
PostPosted: December 17th, 2011, 8:22 pm 
Foundational Member
Foundational Member
User avatar

Joined: March 6th, 2011, 10:29 pm
Posts: 2192
Location: Texas
Ophelia MirZA Shaye wrote:
:P I don't know how to write adults well at all. When I really think about it, I can't name a book where I cared when the parents died. . . . :P
Well, the book I mentioned in the opening post did it really well. I was surprised at how well the author accomplished it.

And many of us, including myself, are on the threshold of adulthood. I am starting to understand adults better, to know how it feels to be an adult. We are happy to give you some help if you need any. :)

In short, an adult has the same emotions, fears, and hopes a young person does. They just have many more responsibilities. And the mature adults are much more selfless than I am. :?

_________________
So.
It has come to this.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What? He's...dead?
PostPosted: December 19th, 2011, 12:39 am 
Foundational Member
Foundational Member
User avatar

Joined: September 8th, 2010, 10:11 am
Posts: 13933
Location: Where ever my computer happens to be.
Quote:
One effect I long for in all my stories is to make the reader care every time anyone dies. I want my reader to feel a twinge of guilt, or at least go, "Aw, man."

Not only that, but I want my readers to feel a moment of disbelief, and then grief, right along with the character when someone near to them dies. (Yeah, I know. Mean.)

Do you understand what I mean? Too often in a book, or a movie, a secondary character is introduced. Someone important and dear to the main character. For example, the character's father. But something about the way the character talks, or acts, lets you know that this character is likely to be killed off. You are not going to care much when he dies. The character is already dead to you. You only care about the MC.


Amen! Personal pet peeve. I harp on this all the time.

Now I wrote something about this somewhere.... I think it was Sci-Fi. Hmmm..... I must go find. *goes off to see if she can find her post or not *

_________________
Airianna Valenshia

The Rainbow in the Storm- My Blog

Be careful of your thoughts; guard your mind, for your thoughts become words. Be guarded when you speak, for your words turn into action. Watch what you do, for your actions will become habits. Be wary of your habits, for they become your character. Pray over your character; strive to mold it to the image of Christ, because your character will shape your destiny.

Ideas can germinate from the smallest seeds. Collect those seeds, and let them grow in the back of your mind. You may be surprised by what finally blooms.

When God takes something from your grasp, he's not punishing you. Instead, He’s opening your hands to receive something better. The will of God will never take you where the Grace of God will not protect you.

Works in progress:

The Diegosian Mark, 115,600 words (Preparing for Publication)
The Diegosian Rider, 121,400 words (Finished)
The Diegosian Warrior, 15,000 (In Progress)


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What? He's...dead?
PostPosted: December 19th, 2011, 12:44 am 
Foundational Member
Foundational Member
User avatar

Joined: September 8th, 2010, 10:11 am
Posts: 13933
Location: Where ever my computer happens to be.
Mwah ha! Told you I'd find it. :D

Here is what I said in a sci-fi post thread I started:

Quote:
Hehe! Now here is something that I use in my fantasy books that can transfer to Sci-Fi!!!

For some people, minor characters are totally expendable. They mean nothing, have no purpose, the only reason they are brought into existence is to show the readers the danger the main character is in, or some other reason that supports the MC.

However, in my study of the value and sanctity of life, I decided that, in a way, this was wrong. Not only wrong, but it doesn’t really add emotional impact for the reader. It’s fluff.

BUT!!!!! I’ve found that if you give value to the life, and play off your readers emotional connection to the minor character (sorry Beta Readers, I like toying with your emotions), you drive the point home. Create a real, tangible character, make your reader care and see them as valuable, and then shock them by killing him. You accomplish so much more.

Here’s an example of what I mean.

Example 1: A man is walking down a dark street. A monster jumps out and eats him.

Vrs

Example 2: James is strolling down the street, headed to the nearest convenience store because his pregnant wife is craving some pickles and ice cream. He is thinking about what names they should choose for their new little boy who is on the way when a monster jumps out and kills him.

Okay, so the examples were silly, but you get the point, right? The act is more horrible in example 2 because we know and like James. It’s different, and I as the author have given value to James’ life.

I use this in my novels. I thought I’d share it with ya’ll.


http://www.holyworlds.org/scifi/viewtop ... f=35&t=924

So, there is my answer to your question, sorta. This is how I look at it in writing my books.

_________________
Airianna Valenshia

The Rainbow in the Storm- My Blog

Be careful of your thoughts; guard your mind, for your thoughts become words. Be guarded when you speak, for your words turn into action. Watch what you do, for your actions will become habits. Be wary of your habits, for they become your character. Pray over your character; strive to mold it to the image of Christ, because your character will shape your destiny.

Ideas can germinate from the smallest seeds. Collect those seeds, and let them grow in the back of your mind. You may be surprised by what finally blooms.

When God takes something from your grasp, he's not punishing you. Instead, He’s opening your hands to receive something better. The will of God will never take you where the Grace of God will not protect you.

Works in progress:

The Diegosian Mark, 115,600 words (Preparing for Publication)
The Diegosian Rider, 121,400 words (Finished)
The Diegosian Warrior, 15,000 (In Progress)


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What? He's...dead?
PostPosted: December 19th, 2011, 12:56 am 
Foundational Member
Foundational Member
User avatar

Joined: March 6th, 2011, 10:29 pm
Posts: 2192
Location: Texas
Whoa, your examples were awesome! Thank you so much!
Poor James.

_________________
So.
It has come to this.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What? He's...dead?
PostPosted: December 19th, 2011, 1:01 am 
Foundational Member
Foundational Member
User avatar

Joined: September 8th, 2010, 10:11 am
Posts: 13933
Location: Where ever my computer happens to be.
You are so welcome. :D Yes, poor James. :( Poor James' wife. The poor unborn child who will grow up without his father!

And that is the whole point. :D Showing his value.

_________________
Airianna Valenshia

The Rainbow in the Storm- My Blog

Be careful of your thoughts; guard your mind, for your thoughts become words. Be guarded when you speak, for your words turn into action. Watch what you do, for your actions will become habits. Be wary of your habits, for they become your character. Pray over your character; strive to mold it to the image of Christ, because your character will shape your destiny.

Ideas can germinate from the smallest seeds. Collect those seeds, and let them grow in the back of your mind. You may be surprised by what finally blooms.

When God takes something from your grasp, he's not punishing you. Instead, He’s opening your hands to receive something better. The will of God will never take you where the Grace of God will not protect you.

Works in progress:

The Diegosian Mark, 115,600 words (Preparing for Publication)
The Diegosian Rider, 121,400 words (Finished)
The Diegosian Warrior, 15,000 (In Progress)


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What? He's...dead?
PostPosted: December 19th, 2011, 1:05 am 
Foundational Member
Foundational Member
User avatar

Joined: March 6th, 2011, 10:29 pm
Posts: 2192
Location: Texas
Yes...show his value.
So how do we make the reader like and care about the MC's parents? And not expect them to die?
(A back-cover synopsis that doesn't give anything away would help. :evil: )

_________________
So.
It has come to this.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What? He's...dead?
PostPosted: December 19th, 2011, 10:58 am 
Foundational Member
Foundational Member
User avatar

Joined: September 8th, 2010, 10:11 am
Posts: 13933
Location: Where ever my computer happens to be.
The exact same way I did in that example. Give us a reason to like the parents. Give them value in our eyes.

_________________
Airianna Valenshia

The Rainbow in the Storm- My Blog

Be careful of your thoughts; guard your mind, for your thoughts become words. Be guarded when you speak, for your words turn into action. Watch what you do, for your actions will become habits. Be wary of your habits, for they become your character. Pray over your character; strive to mold it to the image of Christ, because your character will shape your destiny.

Ideas can germinate from the smallest seeds. Collect those seeds, and let them grow in the back of your mind. You may be surprised by what finally blooms.

When God takes something from your grasp, he's not punishing you. Instead, He’s opening your hands to receive something better. The will of God will never take you where the Grace of God will not protect you.

Works in progress:

The Diegosian Mark, 115,600 words (Preparing for Publication)
The Diegosian Rider, 121,400 words (Finished)
The Diegosian Warrior, 15,000 (In Progress)


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What? He's...dead?
PostPosted: December 19th, 2011, 1:52 pm 
Foundational Member
Foundational Member
User avatar

Joined: March 6th, 2011, 10:29 pm
Posts: 2192
Location: Texas
Okay then. :)
Has anybody else read---or watched---a story where you were really sad when a secondary character died early on?

_________________
So.
It has come to this.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: What? He's...dead?
PostPosted: December 19th, 2011, 2:30 pm 
Foundational Member
Foundational Member
User avatar

Joined: September 8th, 2010, 10:11 am
Posts: 13933
Location: Where ever my computer happens to be.
Yes.

I've also seen/read stories where they psyched me out. For instance, Fireproof did this very effectively. Within the first few minutes I was attached to Michael, Caleb's friend and partner. Ten minutes into the movie there was a scene where the creators very well could have killed Michael's character off. My heart was fluttering, not because of the intensity of the scene, but because I was afraid they were going to kill Michael.

They had managed to attach me to Michael's character to the point where I was concerned they would kill him. That is good writing.

_________________
Airianna Valenshia

The Rainbow in the Storm- My Blog

Be careful of your thoughts; guard your mind, for your thoughts become words. Be guarded when you speak, for your words turn into action. Watch what you do, for your actions will become habits. Be wary of your habits, for they become your character. Pray over your character; strive to mold it to the image of Christ, because your character will shape your destiny.

Ideas can germinate from the smallest seeds. Collect those seeds, and let them grow in the back of your mind. You may be surprised by what finally blooms.

When God takes something from your grasp, he's not punishing you. Instead, He’s opening your hands to receive something better. The will of God will never take you where the Grace of God will not protect you.

Works in progress:

The Diegosian Mark, 115,600 words (Preparing for Publication)
The Diegosian Rider, 121,400 words (Finished)
The Diegosian Warrior, 15,000 (In Progress)


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 20 posts ] 


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron