Oh boy. Alright. *thinks* I'll--get back. After lessons....

[Am so glad to see another thread for the series, Lady E. ]

* pauses * How did I not see this one? Hmm...

Well... I have input, but I'm not gonna say anything unless nobody else does for...a week. Then I'll come back and give small input.

*trying to think of a time I despaired*

Ahh, that explains it. Didn't look at the date.

Well... I sometimes am depressed. Does that fit into despair?

My school day has apparently been very very long...

Perhaps, Lady E, an idea might be to share this in a less personal way. I'm sure a good deal of us have written despair into our characters lives... probably based off personal despair but different all the same. And I've written and researched some on it. So perhaps what we could do was post small story excerpts or character profiles that talk about how different characters despair... or even sharing resource excerpts that talk about it. Or something else like that. It would be more... detached, I guess.

This might not work... then again *shrugs* it might. Thoughts?

*waits for a verdict*

* resurrects thread *

I think what Cassandra mentioned is a good idea for the most part. Since hopelessness is often something triggered by very personal experiences which probably don't even want to be remembered, a good way to discuss this would be to throw our characters into it... So more like we are discussing our character's despair, which is a reflection of our own. Does that make sense? 

So...since I said I would post something in a week... (yes, I realize it has been longer than a week ) I guess I'll try and write something that way other people can correct me and, in turn, actually say some useful stuff because of my not-useful stuff.  

Let's see how coherent I can be...

Well, I think the feeling of utter hopelessness where really you cannot see any joy in anything is a rather hard emotion to achieve for most strong Christians. Since, as Christians, we always seem to have that small strand of hope that carries us onward; the knowledge that God still there no matter what. And while sometimes we can feel hopeless something inside us tells us we aren't entirely, and sometimes, for a few minutes, we aren't so hopeless anymore. And that usually makes it so that we don't stay hopeless for very long without, at least, a few seconds of relief.

Since most of my MCs represent Christians I usually throw that into my storyline somewhere. I tend to show that they are in despair and they do feel alone and like they should give up, but I also try to add in a moment, eventually, when there seems to be something about them that isn't in the characters  who would have given up by now. A certain perseverance that stays throughout the story even when there is nothing seemingly left for them to persevere for. 

Of course, I change my MCs reaction to despair according to the character. For example, I have two books and three different characters get tortured equally each, but they each have a different reaction. 

In one of the books the character is about to give up (I.E. literally die), because there is nothing left for him to fight for, to live for, and to look forward to except for the only relief he could think of, which is death. As it is, he doesn't die, because he gets hope in the nick of time, but for so long he was in despair because of what he was going through, yet there was still a small amount of hope and thankfully it showed itself clearly just in time. 

The second MC is a girl so she has a slightly different reaction just because she's a different gender. She gets rather depressed and basically does give up. She refuses to give the enemy exactly what he wants, but she also stops fighting him and basically just let's him do what he wishes with her. Considering her past and her state of mind she probably wouldn't have made it through, but she had a small strand of hope in her subconscious which helped her not give up on life entirely. 

The third MC is a boy and he probably has the strongest faith out of all three of them so, though he does experience a rather extreme level of hopelessness, he doesn't give up as much as he gets very stubborn and is determined to find out "Why?" not necessarily "When will this end?" but rather, "Why did it begin?" Because of this he spends most of his time in captivity lost in his own thoughts, listening to the thousand voices whispering in his head. 

To describe exactly what this character was going through I basically had to figure out what the vast majority people would think when they are hopeless (Hehe...wasn't that hard for me, sadly). And so I came up with a basic outline of what goes through different personality's minds when they are hopeless, and of course the level of the extremity of each thought depends on the mental state of each person and how strong faith they have, what they think about themselves, if they have anybody to talk to, etc. 

But anyways, from what I've gathered is that there are a great many number of things that go through peoples's heads when they are in despair. But I'd say the most (lack of a better term here) "classic" reaction probably goes something like.

When despair just sets in: "Why me?" 
When despair continues on: "When will this end?" 
When despair continues on some more: "Can I make this end?"

And of course, that is where we get depression and suicide epidemics from when we start wondering if we can end it with our own human abilities and so on. 

From that I tried to figure out what goes through one's minds when you're being tortured. The best thing I could think of that was to compare the fear of a five year old when you're parents are gonna scold you for something you did wrong but you don't know what you did wrong, how wrong it was, and how mad they are, and multiply that by...five hundred. So I came up with:

"What are they going to do me?"
"Will I be strong enough?"
"What do they want from me?"
"Will I give them what they want?" 

And, of course, the most repeated question is probably "What are they going to do to me?" because it is rather quite simple to assume that, at that point in time, you're probably more concerned about the severity of your punishment than of whether or not you'll be able to escape it. 

So, basically, I followed those guidelines when I was writing my character's thoughts while he was being tortured. I used it for what the voices said to him. Here's a small excerpt of what was being said to him:

"What are they going to do to me?"


"Will I be strong enough?"


"What are they going to do to me?" + "Will I be strong enough?"


"What do they want from me?"


"Will I give it to them?"
 

And that's basically what the enemy says to him using his questions against him. I haven't written his reply according to the format that I layer out for despair yet so I can't show you an excerpt of that (Sorry. It's a work in progress. ) But I think y'all probably get the basic idea...

So, basically, there are certain guidelines you can go by to figure out how your character might react when they are despair. It's probably a good question to ask when you're creating a character, "What would he think when he's hopeless? What would he do?" 

Of course, hopelessness is sort of a hard thing to understand if one hasn't gone through it themselves, and even then, describing it eloquently is quite the task. The only advice I can give you really as for understanding the feeling of hopelessness is to listen to lyrical sad songs... If you find some really good ones (and I'm sure there are some good ones) you can get some poetic descriptions as to how different people view despair differently and since it's in song...it's a lot easier for said people to make their words, uh, coherent. Unlike me. If you want to I can list a few songs, but if not then... That works, too. 

Anyways...not entirely sure if that made any sense...but then again, I typed it up in a moving car after not having very much sleep and getting motion sickness so I have a decent excuse for my incoherency. Also, I probably have some faults in the ramble, but I haven't exactly tried to put my thoughts on despair into coherent words until...just now. So I have an excuse for that too.

Anywho, hope that helps! I could have said more, but I think that's a long enough rant for now, haha.

Bethany Faith

That was a brilliant post, Bethy!

I have a personal question about this topic, I hope you don't mind if I post it here (who knows, it might push the discussion forward). Would you consider "despair" and "depression" to be the same thing? As in, is despair the emotion that causes depression?

I like, Beth!!

I think despair is often despair of something. Despair of hope. Despair of salvation. Despair of joy. It can revolve greatly around something that used to exist in your life and it feels like it does not any more, and will never.

*will be back when has time to post properly*

And will think on your question, Elestar.

Depression can be a type of despair, since it's used to describe hopelessness that lasts for a certain amount of time. Though, I'm not sure if depression is despair, since so many people experience it in so many different ways, it's one of those things that's hard to figure out.

It wasn't that long. * looks * Okay...it seemed shorter in the car.

It was pretty long.

I'll see if I can type something up from my own experience.

I would not say despair and depression are the same. Similar, but not the same. *shakes head *

Ah, ok. Then I am of no use on this issue.

I'm not that knowledgeable anyways. It hasn't happened too often.

This is a hard one... hmm. I'll try to answer as best I can (which is usually not very well), though.

Hopelessness, if that's something you classify as despair, is something I deal with extensively. About 90% of my time is spent feeling like this. Hopelessness is my closest companion.

There are no outward signs. Sometimes I grow quieter, and I stop talking as much (which is weird, me being a huge chatterbox). Mostly though, I'm becoming adept at hiding it.

Various levels of hopelessness don't usually exist for me. It's there, or it isn't. There have been a few times that it's gotten extremely bad though. When that happens, I usually withdraw within myself, and I cry when I get the chance.

Physically... I think despair just feels like darkness. Like mud. It's like you've fallen into quicksand, and the lower you sink, the greater the realization is--you're not going to get out of it. And eventually, it pulls you under, and the mire covers your head. And you're left in darkness.

Different kinds of despair... usually I feel hopeless because I can't help someone I care about. Or sometimes it's just my self-esteem telling me I'm hopeless. I feel despair when someone I care about is hurting and I can't do anything to help them. And all those types of despair feel the same for me, mostly. Heavy on my heart and a cloud over my head.

My despair is often masked with apathy. I pretend like everything's fine, I'm fine, nothing's wrong, let's get on with what we were doing. Other times it's masked with annoyance, which I blame on lack of sleep or just my brother, if my mom asks.

I might have more to say on this subject, but for now, that's all I have.