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 Post subject: Land Law
PostPosted: July 9th, 2010, 2:15 pm 
Grease Monkeys
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I'm really stuck on where to put this. I's not history, it's not magic, it's... law.
So if there's a place this should be beside here, please move it. (Or say it should be moved. Or whatever.)

Land-law. I just want to talk about it, since I don't know anyone who's enough of a fantasy/writer nut to talk to about it and it's a theory that fascinates me. So It's not necessarily development in any particular story of mine, (I do use it as the premise for the existence of a world in Prince of Yen, but that's not relevant) I'm more interested in discussing it abstractly, and finding out what books it's used in, or if anyone besides me even has considered it.

I was first introduced to the concept in Riddle-Master of Hed. In that series the land-law is literally how the land works, physically and spiritually. Land-Rule is the knowledge of that land and is inherited by the heir when a land ruler dies. This conveniently ends any dispute over inheritance! But the concept made me think of something... deeper. Actual laws. Like the laws of physics. We think of laws as something that can be broken, but what if they weren't? Physical laws cannot be broken. Physics decree that if you step out of a tree you will fall. You simply can't break that law. So what if you had Land law... laws that couldn't be broken. Laws that were written into the earth and if someone did break them, the land itself would fall apart. Kind of like when you swear an oath that can't be broken... literally.

Am I crazy? Does anyone else have ideas for these kind of laws? It's still a vague notion inside my head but I like the principle of it.

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 Post subject: Re: Land Law
PostPosted: July 9th, 2010, 10:38 pm 
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Wow, that sounds very, very cool! I think that nothing can be called 'a crazy idea' with fantasy, until it's tried. I'd say go ahead and do it.

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 Post subject: Re: Land Law
PostPosted: July 9th, 2010, 11:53 pm 
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Hmm, very interesting concept, Janin. I've thought about land-law some, and developed it a little in my writing, but not very much, just a few threads of what you're referring to. For example, in my story there is an ancient dagger. When it is recovered by Srugoz the entire world will begin to end. Physically, when (A) happens, because of (B), the world begins to actually fall apart. You're referring to an actual thing that is placed on the land maybe at it's creation or some time like that?

I'm not aware of any novels that actually use this idea (I haven't read the Riddle-Master of Hed, myself) but I think it would make for a good idea. The closest I can think of is in Narnia. The Deplorable Word and Charyn...that's not exactly the same thing but could be tied in with land-law if the author tried it.

The concept of a Land-Ruler intrigues me, and I'd like to ask you a few questions on what you really mean by that. Is the Land-Ruler a person who is aware of all the rules that are bound to the land and that it abides by? Or is he the person who creates these rules? How does this eliminate dispute over inheritance? (Sorry, I'm slow to get stuff sometimes).

What would happen if someone were to swear an oath, for example, 'By the World of Enderion' and then were to break it? Would it physically make the world come to an end? That's definitely an oath that you'd want to keep...it's kind of nice having the world around! But what if a villain were to swear an oath and then purposely break it to destroy the world...couldn't the entire world then be destroyed easily?

I thought of a few more implications for land-law that might be interesting. Perhaps, if the land is desecrated in a certain way (i.e. a forest burned down) another part of the world suffers. Or flourishes? Kind of like a cause and effect type of thing. Or perhaps land-law can also work for good, like the world being destroyed when a certain thing happens and it flourishing when another happens?

Very, very interesting concept, as Merashath said. Thanks for bringing it up; it really got my brain moving. I'd really like to see some of this done really well in fantasy writing, because, like you said, it's not something that's used a lot. (And I think this would be the best forum you could post it in...)

eruheran

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 Post subject: Re: Land Law
PostPosted: July 10th, 2010, 12:00 am 
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Just as a clarification on my post, it looks like I didn't read the original post, you did say you wanted just to talk about it.

Janin of Yen wrote:
Am I crazy? Does anyone else have ideas for these kind of laws? It's still a vague notion inside my head but I like the principle of it.


This is what I was replying to. Maybe when I said that you should go ahead with it, it sounded like I was saying to put it in the writing, but I meant go ahead and develop it, and talk about it.

Just clarifying, eruheran said my post seemed vague.

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 Post subject: Re: Land Law
PostPosted: July 10th, 2010, 9:19 am 
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Land-Rulers are not my own invention, but from the riddlemaster. They understand the law as in the way the land works. As in, they are a part of the land, they are the land until they die when the knowledge of that land-law goes to their heir. No one can take it away from them. It's just a part of how the world works.

It's similar to binding. (I hope everyone knows what I mean by binding?) It's not even just, 'if you break this law the world comes to an end', I feel like it's more, you can't break the law. You don't try, you don't question. Like no one questions whether you'll fall down or up. It just IS. Mindboggling delicious impossibilities.

In the book I'm writing where I use a variant on this, it becomes imperative for the MC to find a way around some of his countries laws. He succeeds. The country doesn't come to a shattering end but once that law is broken, who can trust it again? And the whole land begins to fall apart and decay and become like the rest of the world, quarreling, warring, and no longer a place of peace.

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 Post subject: Re: Land Law
PostPosted: July 11th, 2010, 12:09 am 
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Janin, I really want to get down and discuss this, but unfortunately I have to leave in about three minutes. :) So I'll look at this topic when I have time and write a good, long, answer. :D

eruheran

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 Post subject: Re: Land Law
PostPosted: July 11th, 2010, 8:35 am 
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Cool. Good long answer are nice. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Land Law
PostPosted: July 11th, 2010, 9:41 am 
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OK, I think I get this now. So no one can take it away from them and their descendants? Are the land-rulers selected at the beginning of the world by the Creator or something? Couldn't someone potentially force the current land-ruler to teach the land-law, or is that impossible?

So, no villains would even dare break this law; it's just like gravity, to use your example. A nice idea to use in a story. But what would constitute a specific land-law, to give an example. For example, citizens of country A must never do 'this', or cross over into country B? Very interesting plot twists that could be brought in...a very interesting idea, but I'm still struggling in my head to find specific 'laws' that would be a part of the land-law...

So the MC betrays the country by finding a way around the laws? He gets what he wants, but the country ends up going through something like the Fall; they're no longer perfect like they were created. What motivates the MC to go ahead and do this? Was he deceived and hoping to achieve something else? I guess I need to read the story. :)

I guess I'm just stuck on the plot concept that a crazed villain, hoping to do a sort of 'kamikaze' attack in which he breaks the land-law and starts the world decaying, works his way towards breaking that law and is stopped by the MC or something. Maybe it's not strictly what you've defined as land-law, 'per se', but I still think it would make an interesting idea.

eruheran

P.S. That wasn't as long as I was thinking, but I'm still really thinking about this concept...really interesting! :)

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 Post subject: Re: Land Law
PostPosted: July 11th, 2010, 11:50 pm 
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I'm starting over. Let me try to explain. The concept I am talking about is inspired from several other sources. The land-law of the riddle master is one of them, but my concept is a little different. This will be lengthy. But hopefully it will make sense.

Example #1 - The Riddlemaster of Hed(excerpts) NOTE: The MC, Morgon, is talking about his brother to Deth, the harper of the High One.
Quote:
"After our father died, we grew so close that sometimes we dream the same dreams... I was that close to my father as his land-heir. I felt him die. I didn't know how or why or where; I simply knew, at that moment, that he was dying. And then that he was dead, and the land-rule had passed to me. For a moment I saw every leaf, every seed, every root in Hed... I was every leaf, every new-planted seed... I don't know why I'm talking about that. You must have heard it a hundred times."
"The passage of the land-rule? No. From what little I have heard, though, the passing isn't so gentle in other lands. Mathom of An told me some of the various bindings that demand constant attention from the land-rulers of An: the binding of the spell-books of Madir, the binding of the ancient, rebellious lords of Hel in their graves, the binding of Peven in his tower."


That should give you a sense of the land rule in the High One's realm. The High one controls it, and he's the only one who can take it away. This has only happened once:
Quote:
The High One, from the beginning, had left men free to find their own destinies. His sole law was land-law, the law that passed like a breath of life from land-heir to land-heir; if the High One died, or withdrew his immense and intricate power, he could turn his realm into a wasteland. The evidences of his powers were subtle and unexpected; he was thought of, when at all, with both awe and trust; his dealings with rulers, generally through his harpist, were invariably courteous. His one concern was the land; his one law, the law instilled deeper than thought, deeper than dreaming, in his land-rulers. Morgon thought of the terrible tale of Awn of An, who, trying to discourage and army from Hel, had set fire to An, sending flames billowing over half the land, burning harvest, orchards, shearing the hilllsides and riverbanks. Safe at last, he had awakened out of a sleep of exhaustion to realize he had lost the wordless, gentle awareness of things beyond eyesight that had been with him, like a hidden eye, since the death of his father. His land-heir, running grief stricken into the room, had stopped, astonished, to find him still alive...


Figured it out? Okay. Now forget about Morgon, the High One, the Riddlemaster, and everything else. We're starting over again. I love the books, I'm the only one who's read them, but I'm not much of an imitator. I could never copy what Patricia McKellip did with that series. I much prefer to come up with something new. Which is what I'm doing. Because the whole concept of land-law set my brain wheels turning. The land-law in the excerpts above has little to do with any kind of moral code, or binding to the inhabitants of the land. It is knowledge of the land itself... the very earth in fact. So I started thinking about moral codes. I thought about Socrates, and I thought about a thorny problem in a book I'm writing. Time for example #2: Natural law.

Natural laws are normal things you take for granted, but they are laws in the sense that they can't be broken and all things are ordered by them. Things like Spring follows Winter, Night follows day, Rain only falls up, and the second law of thermodynamics that states that entropy must always increase. I'm not talking about law as in "Thou shalt not steal", that's a moral and ethical code. (Things like taxes aren't laws either, those are simply decrees by the big guys.) I'm thinking law in the scientific term. Newton's Law of Gravity. The Laws of Thermodynamics. They aren't called laws for nothing. This is the kind of context I'm thinking in. You can't break these laws, the universe would fall apart if they didn't exist. (Like the High One's land-law.) But nobody ever said that there wasn't a way to circumvent them. After all, despite gravity, we can fly! Keep that thought in mind. We're going to need it later.

Example #3: This was what really got my brain going. The Book of Proverbs. You've heard of that one, right? My dad would go around quoting things like "See a man who excels in his work, he shall stand before kings!" He would explain that that's not a promise, that's a fact, a Truth. And my brain translated, "that's a law." It is. There's no how, or why, or if about it. A great many proverbs are simple truths. I'll give examples if you want them, but you should get the idea. My brain thought, that's a law. No, that's a land-law. A word to convey an idea that I don't think has been expressed before.

(I know, I'm getting long-winded, but hold on! I'm almost done!) NOTE: The rest of this post deals solely with the story I'm writing that uses land-law. If you get the idea and don't need a run down of the history of Elleys and are willing to ignore the question of the MC of mine who breaks the law and are really tired of reading something of great length; than you need read no further.

You asked about my story. In an attempt to do away with much of the magic I had originally written into my first novel, (The Prince of Yen,) I turned to the concept of land-law. The name of the land is Elleys. Originally the original inhabitants were fairies. Now they're just... I don't know. Special people. From the other side of an impassable mountain range came simple mortals who were escaping enemies, (who never caught up with them, the enemies are just a convenience to get them out of their own land) and settled in Elleys, mingling with the... whatever, and diluting their powers. (Much of this I haven't redeveloped yet, so magic is still the only explanation for the history. It's an unfinished story. Live with it.)
Magic and mortal blood don't mix well, and many years later evil had corrupted the power of the Elloi into a race of wizards. Each wizard wanted to rule the others and they massed huge armies of the innocent (relatively powerless) inhabitants and fought each other. Finally one day, a leader for the downtrodden arises and Tell leads the armies of the wizards to unite against their masters and destroy them. Many of them surrender. Tell accepts their offer of advice and friendship and help (many of whom say was a mistake but whatever) to protect the land forever from war and invaders and whatever. They write the land-law. They write some ambiguous moral code that's bound into the earth itself, and into the hearts of everyone born west of the mountains. (Where Elleys is situated.) Only the Kings of Yen, in direct succession from King Tell, have the power to add to that law, but as centuries of peace go by and the wizards grow weaker and weaker, the knowledge of how the binding is done is forgotten. The law of Elleys becomes a political mess.

(Making sense so far? I should copy all this into the 'history' forum and get help developing it all!)

Hundreds of years later, enter Janin. (not me, my character. My real name is Katie.) Janin is the heir to Yen. He's sworn an oath to uphold the law of Elleys. No one's quite sure what that law is, but Janin's very loyal, and just. However, due to some complicated circumstances, a friend of his from the other side of the mountains, (he shouldn't have gone and mixed with the mortals in the first place but Janin was never one to listen to sound advice,) comes to Yen and is forbidden to leave because one of Tell's original laws stated no mortal who came to Elleys could ever return to tell his own people of what he had seen in case they decided to mount an invasion. Well. Janin's sworn to keep the law of Elleys. He can't help his friend escape and go home. No one knows the limit and definition and extent of Tell's laws, they can add to them, amend them, change them, no one knows which ones are important, no one knows who wrote which or which are bound to the earth or whatever, but everyone knows that if Tell's laws are broken the land will be detroyed/loose it's peace/whatever. this is regarded with what is almost bordering on superstition. But Janin's cousin, (the evil villain, who's also a traitor, and also his best friend,) says that Tell's law has already been broken by kings who twisted it to their own purposes, the land is already failing, the political situation is already as crazy as the Galactic Republic when it fell, and that Janin should give more attention to solving real problems than bickering about law. Janin's friend agrees. Janin disagrees. He won't break the law. But, like man learning to fly, he finds a way to circumvent it and get what he wants in spite of it. (I'm not telling you what he does 'cause that would give away my story, which I'm not doing.) However, circumvention is the same as breaking it apparently because, fast forward another few decades.

(BTW. This is actually a whole trilogy of books. Or rather, the Prince of Yen is a book and The Elleysian Chronicles covers everything that happened before and after. It might fit in one volume. I'm not sure. Tell is part one, Janin part two, and this is part three.)

The line of King Tell, unbroken for centuries, has splintered. A distant cousin is the only successor until an upstart from a distant land arrives, claiming to be the only son of the last king. (Reminder: This is not based on the Riddlemaster land-law! The law is in the land, not the rulers. It's not passed from ruler to ruler like in her books!) the council of the rulers of Elleys ignore his claim, and the King of Yen banishes him as a traitor. Ian (the rightful heir) has many adventures, finally deciding to claim his birthright at any cost, and throwing off any pretense at following a law that clearly no longer exists. He goes to the mortal world, raises an army there and marches into Elleys, breaking practically every law Tell ever wrote, shattering the protection and peace of a land once called "The Blessed." War comes, for the first time in a thousand years, to the gates of Yen. The land-law has been shattered, the knowledge of it lost forever in ignorance.
(I could rant forever on who really started the downfall of Elleys, don't let me.)

So. That's the land-law as I'm using it currently. It's more complex than that, but I'm in the middle of the seventh revision of Prince of Yen (Janin's story) and I've barely started on the others. *sigh*. I should finish it...
Sorry about the length. Hope I didn't scare you off. :o

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 Post subject: Re: Land Law
PostPosted: July 14th, 2010, 10:52 am 
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I think I understand what you're talking about, it reminds me of something from the Sword, Shield, and the Crown series. The ruler knows what's going on in the land, because the ruler is almost a part of the land. The ruler is aware of what's happening in the realm, even before the people might be.

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 Post subject: Re: Land Law
PostPosted: July 15th, 2010, 4:46 am 
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OK, I'm going to have to download that long post and fully peruse it... :D But just from what I've gathered so far in this post...land-law is a really intriguing concept, and I'll definitely be using some form of it in my book. :) And by the way, I don't mind long posts :)

eruheran

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 Post subject: Re: Land Law
PostPosted: July 15th, 2010, 6:50 am 
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DISCLAIMER: I wrote this entire (very long) post in a word document and I haven't checked it over yet. Strange things might appear in my writing, such as dancing green monkeys, whatever. I might not be the clearest in some places :D I get that way when I ramble :D

OK, so I just read through your very long post, and since you told us to forget everything before so that you could explain it again...I'll do that. I'll do my best to forget all my ideas about land-law and try to figure it out by what you wrote here (Maybe I'm slow...but a clean slate is usually the best way to start me going..not sure why :) )

I guess I'll just write impressions I got about the land-law, and you can correct me if I make any mistakes (which is likely)

Land Rule passes from father to son and is very complicated
This is still dealing with the Riddle-Master's land-law, but the impression I got from this quote was that it is hereditary (as has already been established) and that it can be a lot of work and effort to keep up, explaining why it is only bestowed on one ruler and not a whole bunch of lesser nobles or something.

Land Rule can be misused
OK, this next quote you have is interesting. I was under the impression that land-rule was more a knowledge of the land, but this quote makes it seem as if the ruler actually has a control over the land he rules. Though I know some people are averse to the word, this makes the land-ruler almost like a wizard, but circumventing the magical aspect of it, making it into more of a hereditary role that happens to come with magical-like powers. (Hope that makes sense).

It also answers my question about a tyrannical ruler 'mis-using' land-rule...though I don't know if this quote was describing a bad ruler or not, anyways, land-rule can be used by the ruler. That really clears something up for me.

Also, the Creator still has active control of the land-rule. I was envisioning it more as something which was established and is more strict. This (at least, the Riddle-Master version) implies that the Creator can revoke the land-rule and pass it on to the heir if the current ruler misuses it. Correct?

----

OK, I think I've got Riddle-Master's land rule figured out, at least from the quotes you gave us I think I've got a pretty accurate idea of it. Now on to your twists.

A Moral Land-Law
I agree with you; the land law in Riddle-Master seems more to be a knowledge and control of the earth by it's ruler, there is little affecting the inhabitants and nothing morally. It's simply a knowledge of Nature (Nature as in all of it collectively, not just like a boy scout studying plants...if that makes sense. I consider it the difference between 'Nature' and 'nature'. I'd use Mother Nature but that sounds new-agey). So in your concept you're adding moral twists, right?

So this is where I get a bit confused. You say that you want to add to the Riddle-Master land-law by adding moral laws. Then you cite all these Nature laws. Are you using those just as context for the type of Law you're talking about? (By the way, rain only falls down :D) I see what you mean now by unbreakable laws. It's not that no one thinks of breaking the laws; it's that they physically CAN'T be broken. Correct?

Circumvention of Land-Law (and it's possibilities)
But the circumvention brings up really exciting ideas. (I'll get to those later in the post where I can explain a little bit more of my story idea, if anyone's still reading this extremely long post).

Integrating stuff like Proverbs into land-law
So to your last point. By saying Proverbs are land-laws, such as the example you gave, you're introducing another twist. Because this law CAN be broken. Unlike the physical laws (a man can't avoid gravity) a man can 'NOT excel in his work' and break this law. Ah, I see where you're coming from. I just reread that paragraph, and reread the proverb in particular. The land-law is not that 'If you don't excel you won't stand in the presence of kings' but rather the land-law is 'If you do excel you will stand in the presence of kings'. I guess that's kind of obvious but now it makes sense to me. I think. :roll:

OK, I think I get land-law..it took me a long post to get there, but I think I might be off the mark on that last thing, about Proverbs. Could you elaborate on that or tell me where I misunderstood? :D (I know...I must frustrate people when, after they've done four pages of description, I ask them to elaborate...)


NOTE: I'm sort of doing the same thing as Janin here...explaining my plot. It's about a page long in the word processor, so if you really want to read it, you can, but it's not really necessary. :)

When I first wrote my novel two years ago, there was a Brick of Power that kept the world in balance. When it was stolen by the villain, the world becomes unbalanced. That's why I was so excited when you mentioned this 'moral land-law'...it was sort of a twist of what I had already worked into my novel years ago. Anyways, your ideas got me thinking a lot; especially the way to 'circumvent' land-law.

So here's the new deal on the novel. Instead of a Brick of Power, there is a dagger that is forged at the beginning of the world (I won't explain this story in-depth to keep this short :roll:). Basically, it was forged, the villain killed the guy who made the dagger, the Creator cursed the villain and made the dagger the cause of his pain and trouble.

When Nerandia was destroyed (where the dagger had been kept for centuries) some inhabitants with the dagger fled and founded the dagger. There, after a vision, some sort of thing from God (I haven't figured this part out very well yet), the inhabitants create a resting place for the Dagger in the Enclave. When it remains in it's place, the world is well and all is stable.

When the dagger is removed though, the world begins to decay. Formerly friendly nations will war against each other (sort of like Revelation...brother will cast out father, two women will be at a mill...I don't remember the exact references, but anyways) and chaos will ensue.

The Enclave inhabitants are 'cringing' so to speak, when the dagger is stolen, assuming the world will begin to fall into decay. Obviously, the dagger is not in it's resting place, so all is not well. Turns out that the villain has created a false resting place for the dagger at his capital and is now calling himself the Creator because he can stop the world from decaying by this false resting place (Sort of like an Antichrist sort of thing)...so he circumvents the 'land-law' or 'dagger-law' or whatever it should be called. Anyways, the book is about how this dagger is recovered.

Ah yes, I also forgot. The dagger has some sort of 'ritual' (not sure what this will be) that must be renewed every year, similar to the first Riddle-Master example you quoted. The MC's father fails to do the ceremony the year before the dagger is stolen, so the MC feels guilty and required to go on the quest to recover the dagger. Alternately, the MC's father is punished and forced to go recover the dagger. He fails, and the MC feels a need to carry on his father's work and recover the dagger. Like you can see, I haven't totally developed all this yet. :D

So there's my story idea. Soon in Story Development I'll be posting a full summary (warning: four pages long :D) of the book for critiquing. And I think I broke the previous long-post record, whatever it is...this one's a whopper. *Oops* :)

P.S. Janin, I think I'm really trying your like of long posts with this one :roll: Oops. :D Also, I officially nominate this thread as the one that has helped me most since I joined the forum.. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Land Law
PostPosted: July 15th, 2010, 8:56 am 
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Eruheran, that sounds similar to the Prince of Persia movie that's coming out.

I think I can understand what you all were talking about, (Except for the Proverbs) but I can't really explain it.

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 Post subject: Re: Land Law
PostPosted: July 15th, 2010, 9:23 am 
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That wasn't that long.
It's really hard to explain an idea that you haven't developed yourself yet. But I think you've got it. Mostly. Close enough. :D

The other thing that ties in with this is Bindings. (Do you know what I mean by bindings?) Basically, your dagger, (which is much cooler than a brick BTW,) is the physical embodiment of the bindings made by... whoever, with the land and its people to ensure peace.

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 Post subject: Re: Land Law
PostPosted: July 15th, 2010, 9:34 am 
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OK, you have a very good resistance to long posts. :roll: Most people I know would freak out from a couple of paragraphs. :D

Bindings. You mentioned them several times. So basically the dagger is a physical symbol, kind of, of the bindings of land-law that rest upon the land?

I know. I don't think I'll ever be brave enough to show my first write of this book. :) It was REALLY bad. It was based off a game my brothers and I played with our LEGOs when we were smaller. Needless to say, it needed a lot of help. So that's what I'm undertaking this summer.

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 Post subject: Re: Land Law
PostPosted: July 15th, 2010, 5:22 pm 
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Oh. I feel your pain. My first book was based off of a game my sister and I played for years and years and years, embellishing as we went along, until there are more versions then there are of king Arthur! Trying to put them together into a semblance of order and... sanity, is difficult. And separating a serious plot from a rather insane childhood game... My original outlines, (which I still use,) were written when I was about twelve and I cringe every time I look at them.

Yes, exactly. You've got it right. Does that make sense? Bindings aren't hard to understand. Should I start a thread for that or does everyone have it?

(I actually know of a series of stories ya'll might love... from which I first learned the rudiments of bindings in the ancient celtic style. Maybe I should link them. :D )

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Floyd was frozen where he stood. He struggled to breathe, but the air smelled of blood and death and guilt. He tried to formulate a name, to ask, but language was meaningless, and words would not come. He tried to scream but the sound got stuck in his heart, shattered into a million pieces, and scattered to the wind.

In a world without superheroes, who will stand against the forces of evil?


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 Post subject: Re: Land Law
PostPosted: July 15th, 2010, 10:08 pm 
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Yes...I was so proud of my first revision when I first did it (at age thirteen) but it's not so pretty now. Basically I kept only the loosest framework from the first book plus the character names. Is this game what the Prince of Yen is based off of?

I've got bindings down, but I don't know about everyone else. *Looks at everyone else* I seem to be the only one replying to this thread now. :) Oh, and by all means, post about that series. I'm curious! :D

eruheran

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 Post subject: Re: Land Law
PostPosted: July 16th, 2010, 8:45 am 
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Bindings make sense, or at least I think so.

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 Post subject: Re: Land Law
PostPosted: July 16th, 2010, 12:26 pm 
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Nope, Prince of Yen came later. The writing is still pretty lousy but at least the plot still makes sense six years later. :)

My first one was Lightning Ranger. It's... a mess.

Oh good, at least one word in our vocabulary we both can understand.

Okay, the series. It's actually an online series, so I hope I can still find it. I haven't been there in a awhile. Do you know Michael Flatley's Lord of the Dance? The series is based off it. And it's so well written, you'd think the show was based off of the writings! Unfortunately, they're unfinished. Very annoying. Now... link... Nope. It's gone.

I know she was planning to take it down, so I copied the stories. (I'm justified in doing so, but it's a long story.) What next?

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Floyd was frozen where he stood. He struggled to breathe, but the air smelled of blood and death and guilt. He tried to formulate a name, to ask, but language was meaningless, and words would not come. He tried to scream but the sound got stuck in his heart, shattered into a million pieces, and scattered to the wind.

In a world without superheroes, who will stand against the forces of evil?


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 Post subject: Re: Land Law
PostPosted: July 16th, 2010, 8:45 pm 
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Fellow Janin of Yen,

I'll answer theologically: you already have broken the Land Law. To be concise, Adam and Eve did. They stepped out of bounds and were immediately dead spiritually, doomed physically, and corrupt entirely! The rest of the world, likewise, experienced death, suffering, thorns, and unhappy stuff.

Physics can't lie. Gravity cannot say "I do this," then as you jump off a cliff, it hollers, "whoops...changed my mind," and you float back to the top. Likewise God cannot lie. When He makes a promise, or a covenant, He will keep it. Guaranteed. This is why it is so crucial to Trust in Christ.

If you were to implement this in a story, the source who wrote the Land Law must be a perfect being. And they that are subject under the Land Law must perfectly obey it. That's the only way it could work, and such a thing could be tricky to write on. But the Bible does it well. Consider the men who questioned Moses' authority - God ordained Moses as Israel's leader! To refute God was blasphemous. Know what happened? The earth opened up and swallowed them.

I use a similar form of Land Law in my own story. It's a bit complicated, so I won't express it all. But the gist is that if a Being does a certain thing (refute the existence of Fire - if you're curious, you'll have to read my book) he murders himself spiritually and becomes a Shelo - a repulsive creature of shame and agony, who spends his days in darkness, loneliness, rage, and suffering. Shelo are very dangerous and their "disease" can be contagious if you listen long enough.

Hope this helps! Using a form of Land Law is admirable in a Christian writer for its Biblical fidelity.

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 Post subject: Re: Land Law
PostPosted: February 26th, 2011, 4:01 pm 
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Pavalini: (I know this thread is months old but it doesn't deserve to be buried any longer) I never thought of Adam and Eve's sin as connected to land-law. But essentially that's the same type of thing we're describing. Thanks for that connection!

eruheran

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 Post subject: Re: Land Law
PostPosted: March 9th, 2011, 10:26 pm 
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Ha, thanks for digging this up, Eruheran.

I'm trying to write an article for the HW blog summing up my thoughts on this subject, is there anyone here who'd like to help edit it? It's a most disastrous mess. :P

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Floyd was frozen where he stood. He struggled to breathe, but the air smelled of blood and death and guilt. He tried to formulate a name, to ask, but language was meaningless, and words would not come. He tried to scream but the sound got stuck in his heart, shattered into a million pieces, and scattered to the wind.

In a world without superheroes, who will stand against the forces of evil?


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 Post subject: Re: Land Law
PostPosted: March 14th, 2011, 11:41 am 
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*raises hand*

eruheran

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 Post subject: Re: Land Law
PostPosted: August 3rd, 2012, 2:31 pm 
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Did that article ever end up on the blog?

I love this concept, and will probably use it in my WIP. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Land Law
PostPosted: August 5th, 2012, 5:51 pm 
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*laughs * Just as an FYI, Katie, this topic of yours came up in the Convention Skype. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Land Law
PostPosted: August 5th, 2012, 11:42 pm 
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*grins* I brought it up. ;)

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