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 Post subject: A flat earth
PostPosted: October 22nd, 2010, 11:00 pm 
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In an attempt to break out of my genre comfort zone, I am doing a full-fledged parallel world fantasy for NaNo this year. I'm currently designing the geography, and I would really appreciate some help. I've never designed a parallel world before, at least not one where I tampered with the structure of the earth surface itself. Below is pasted what I have thus far for world development. What do you think of it? Do you see any logic holes or inconsistencies? Is it interesting? Is it believable? I know I don't have to abide by strict science, but I don't want to overextend the reader's suspension of disbelief. Please tear this apart, if you have a moment! Thanks much.

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STRUCTURE
The earth is flat. It is a solid plate of rock averaging about a mile thick. It does not spin or rotate, and it has neither sun nor moon. The only other points in the sky are tiny green dots that are speckled across the space below the earth; they are either very small or very distant, and no one knows what they are.

In the morning, the sky is light and gleams rich robin’s egg blue. It slowly fades into black as the day wanes, only to be born again the next day. The light does not gradually rise; at promptly 6am, it explodes suddenly like a light bulb being turned on. There is no need for time zones.


CLIMATE
There is no direct source of light in the sky to give heat and vary the climate. Rather, climate on the surface is determined by the elements that burn beneath the earth. On the underside of the rock are pools of fire in the south and glaciers of ice in the north, which spaces of bare rock in between.

Wind blows from the center of the bottom of earth in both directions, wrapping up and around. In the south, wind blows past the fire and carries warm air across the surface, gradually cooling as it nears the middle; in the north, wind blows past the ice and carries cold air across the surface, gradually warming as it nears the middle. Therefore, the southern extremes of the earth are hot while the northern extremes are cold, with various milder temperatures in between.

Clouds only form prior to rainstorms. In the south, clouds are wispy and lilac in color. Precipitation is infrequent, and it is generally in the form of a light mist. In the north, clouds are puffy and a light orange in color. Precipitation is more common, coming in the form of snow or hail in the colder regions and thunderless storms of fat drops in the milder regions. In the center, where the northern cold front meets the southern warm front, the clouds come in flat, smooth sheets of metallic silver. Precipitation is frequent; a few mild regions in this area are blessed with good, moderate rainfall, while the extremes experience terrific storms of lightning and tornadoes. In all regions, the thicker the clouds are, the more precipitation they carry; as they drop their moisture, the clouds fade to white before dissipating.


The heavy rainfall in the center regions feeds rivers that flow to the north and south. When a river reaches the end of the land, it literally cascades over the edge of the earth in a spectacular waterfall, where it evaporates back into the air. In the extreme south, the fire causes the overflow of some rivers to evaporate into dangerous steam; in the extreme north, the waterfalls are often half-frozen.

Because the earth does not rotate, weather is constant and varies little within a region. There is no change of season. Each region has specific climatic circumstances which give it a unique flora, fauna, and culture.

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 Post subject: Re: A flat earth
PostPosted: October 22nd, 2010, 11:18 pm 
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Very plausible and interesting. I like how the climates are formed. I have one question. It rains fat?

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 Post subject: Re: A flat earth
PostPosted: October 23rd, 2010, 1:40 am 
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Very interesting, Philli. I especially like your descriptions of the clouds, and of the underside of the earth making the basis for the temperatures. Just a few questions...how does the atmosphere work? Like, if someone went off the edge of the planet in a kayak, how long before they run out of air? I also second Elanhil's question. :D

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 Post subject: Re: A flat earth
PostPosted: October 23rd, 2010, 3:38 pm 
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I think, as Elanhil said, this world is plausible, but you will certainly have a lot of angles to think about, some of which the boys have already pointed out. Because the world’s structure has changed, so should many of the daily functions like rain (good questions Elanhil and Eruheran). It is an interesting concept though, and could make a very interesting setting for a story.

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 Post subject: Re: A flat earth
PostPosted: October 23rd, 2010, 5:10 pm 
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Thanks, everyone! I'm glad its not too "out there." I know I'm dinking with structure which could create some interesting logic issues to solve, but I wanted to make sure the world as a whole wasn't unrealistic to the point of being cheesy.

No, the drops of rain are fat, as in plump and large. :D

Eruheran, do you mean how far away from the earth the air remains breathable? That's a good question. At the moment, nobody falls off the face of the earth (at least nobody we'd want to see again), so I'm not sure any of the residents even know, but I'd want to leave it open. I actually may, for the sake of the fantasy world, make the atmosphere consistent and have all air be breathable. They don't have a direct sun, so in theory they don't need the protection of the ozone layer, etc. I may have to find a refresher course on the breakdown of the atmosphere and see if there's anything I'm missing.

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 Post subject: Re: A flat earth
PostPosted: October 23rd, 2010, 11:39 pm 
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That makes sense. But if they don't get a direct sun...how is this planet/land heated? Is it stationary...the sun orbits it? Do neither the sun nor earth orbit. Does the earth orbit around the sun? (strange for a flat earth. :D)

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 Post subject: Re: A flat earth
PostPosted: October 24th, 2010, 12:36 pm 
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That would be logic problem I am currently trying to solve. The earth doesn't orbit or rotate - that I know - so the conditions in a given area are largely consistent. I think I've reasonably explained how the weather varies from place to place, with the fire and ice causing air of different temperatures, so I don't need a direct sun to cause climate differences. However, I have not explained where the light comes from.

I've thought of the possibility that there is a sun, but you can't see it directly because it is behind some kind of cloud sheet. That would be interesting and would fit the "feel" I want for my earth. However, ideally I would like the light to fade at night but turn "on" in the morning, which I cannot do with an orbiting sun that rises slowly. I can forfeit my idea of a "lightbulb" sunrise if I can't find a way to logically make it work. But for plot reasons (and because of a quote I have in my head), I'd really like to find a way to make it happen. So I'll work on that.

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 Post subject: Re: A flat earth
PostPosted: October 24th, 2010, 6:28 pm 
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What about the sun being underneath the flat earth?

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Be careful of your thoughts; guard your mind, for your thoughts become words. Be guarded when you speak, for your words turn into action. Watch what you do, for your actions will become habits. Be wary of your habits, for they become your character. Pray over your character; strive to mold it to the image of Christ, because your character will shape your destiny.

Ideas can germinate from the smallest seeds. Collect those seeds, and let them grow in the back of your mind. You may be surprised by what finally blooms.

When God takes something from your grasp, he's not punishing you. Instead, He’s opening your hands to receive something better. The will of God will never take you where the Grace of God will not protect you.

Works in progress:

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 Post subject: Re: A flat earth
PostPosted: October 24th, 2010, 8:14 pm 
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Possibly, but it doesn't fit the vision in my head.

I spoke with a writing friend today and she told me not to overthink it. It is fantasy; to an extent, it's allowed to be "just the way it is." So for the purposes of the rough draft for NaNo, I am going to leave my sky blank with the "lightbulb" sunrise concept. As far as the earth's inhabitants are concerned, they don't know and don't have the advancement to find out. I'll leave it open so that if, in edits or sequels, I need to make a more detailed explanation, I can. Opinions?

But for the moment I need to draw up a map and start dividing regions so I can assign people homelands and plot their course of adventure. :D

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 Post subject: Re: A flat earth
PostPosted: October 24th, 2010, 8:20 pm 
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I just had a thought. If water cascades over the edge of the earth, where is the gravity? It is on a plate far below the earth? Also, wouldn't this result in them running out of water? Unless the water is collected underneath and brought back up as clouds somehow.

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 Post subject: Re: A flat earth
PostPosted: October 24th, 2010, 8:28 pm 
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Yes, I figure the center of gravity is somewhere on the underside of the earth. And, yes, the water would evaporate back into the air after it falls. (I think some large waterfalls on earth are so tall that they evaporate before they reach the ground - but I haven't researched that.)

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 Post subject: Re: A flat earth
PostPosted: October 24th, 2010, 8:32 pm 
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Yes, Angel falls is one.

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 Post subject: Re: A flat earth
PostPosted: October 24th, 2010, 9:04 pm 
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I believe she already said that, Elanhil. So is the earth like a big cone shape? (with the center of gravity at the bottom of the cone?) or a disc? Sorry, you said you weren't going to overthink it and now I'm assisting in that crime. Curiosity killed me.

eruheran

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 Post subject: Re: A flat earth
PostPosted: October 25th, 2010, 8:45 am 
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If it is a flat earth, how do you have north and south directions? If the earth is only a mile thick, wouldn't it be possible to tunnel through it with modern technology?

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 Post subject: Re: A flat earth
PostPosted: October 25th, 2010, 2:56 pm 
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No, it's fine, Eruheran. Just because I'm not going to overthink it doesn't mean I want to do a sloppy job, so I welcome your questions. I am imagining that the center of gravity is in the rock layers; that's why things on top stay grounded while the fire and ice on the underside don't fall off. So the overall structure of the earth is more like a flat piece of layered cake, with icing between the fluffy stuff.

Griffin, I will give the residents some sort of landmark to base directions off of. The fact that the climate differs so greatly from one extreme to the other helps, making it easier to distinguish.

Yes, it would be possible to dig through the earth with modern technology, but the current residents don't have modern technology. This particular escapade (the plot of my NaNo novel) isn't going to be a "Journey to the Center of the Earth" type of thing, but I might consider that for future stories, should I decide to write them.

Thanks, all!

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 Post subject: Re: A flat earth
PostPosted: October 25th, 2010, 8:47 pm 
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@eruheran...She did? did I miss that?

Anyways, I had some Ideas on the gravity thing. Gravity changes with the size of the object, and the distance apart that they are. So, if your earth is large, then voila, you've got your gravity. No need to explain it. However, there is a reason why our earth is round. The gravity causes things to form together spherically...so you may need to change some natural laws, or just not even provide an answer. ;) However, this also makes it so that the falls can't cascade over the edge. Instead you'd have the river flow along the side, for the mile or so, and then wrap around to the bottom. Which opens up the possibility of thinking about putting the fire and ice on the sides of earth and having a whole different another race on the bottom.

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 Post subject: Re: A flat earth
PostPosted: October 25th, 2010, 9:32 pm 
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That, sir, is a fantastic idea. While I don't want the fire and ice to be largely visible from the surface, I love the idea of having the rivers wrap around. That might make it possible to follow them all the way around, depending on how steep the vertical sides are. That would be very interesting should I ever send characters to the underside. I wasn't planning to in this work, but I will if I need the plot. Thanks!

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 Post subject: Re: A flat earth
PostPosted: October 25th, 2010, 9:36 pm 
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A perfect 'Why we love Holy Worlds' moment.

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Airianna Valenshia

The Rainbow in the Storm- My Blog

Be careful of your thoughts; guard your mind, for your thoughts become words. Be guarded when you speak, for your words turn into action. Watch what you do, for your actions will become habits. Be wary of your habits, for they become your character. Pray over your character; strive to mold it to the image of Christ, because your character will shape your destiny.

Ideas can germinate from the smallest seeds. Collect those seeds, and let them grow in the back of your mind. You may be surprised by what finally blooms.

When God takes something from your grasp, he's not punishing you. Instead, He’s opening your hands to receive something better. The will of God will never take you where the Grace of God will not protect you.

Works in progress:

The Diegosian Mark, 115,600 words (Preparing for Publication)
The Diegosian Rider, 121,400 words (Finished)
The Diegosian Warrior, 15,000 (In Progress)


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 Post subject: Re: A flat earth
PostPosted: October 27th, 2010, 4:53 pm 
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Wouldn't gravity make other problems appear? Wouldn't gravity pull everything toward the center of their earth? Not just to the ground.

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"Many who live deserve death, and some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Do not be so eager to deal out death and judgment, for even the Wise cannot see all ends."
-Gandalf

"When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth"
-Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, (in Sherlock Holmes)
________________________

Current projects:
Heroes and Demons series:
Lost Son: 3,782 words http://www.holyworlds.org/forum/viewtop ... 117&t=1844
Red Son: 1,726 words http://www.holyworlds.org/forum/viewtop ... 117&t=3008
Prodigal Son: Developing Stage
Grateful Son: Developing Stage
The Setting Sons: Developing Stage
All titles are tentative
_______________
Other books:

Tobias the Swift: Developing Stage

Wings from above: Developing Stage

Yeah, most of my books are in the development stage, but I have a lot of ideas! :P


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 Post subject: Re: A flat earth
PostPosted: October 27th, 2010, 5:40 pm 
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I've corrected my usage of the word "center." I don't mean the literal center anymore, but rather the central layer, like icing between cake layers.

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 Post subject: Re: A flat earth
PostPosted: October 27th, 2010, 5:52 pm 
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Good change of word usage Philli. I think it gives a better mental image for your thoughts.

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The Rainbow in the Storm- My Blog

Be careful of your thoughts; guard your mind, for your thoughts become words. Be guarded when you speak, for your words turn into action. Watch what you do, for your actions will become habits. Be wary of your habits, for they become your character. Pray over your character; strive to mold it to the image of Christ, because your character will shape your destiny.

Ideas can germinate from the smallest seeds. Collect those seeds, and let them grow in the back of your mind. You may be surprised by what finally blooms.

When God takes something from your grasp, he's not punishing you. Instead, He’s opening your hands to receive something better. The will of God will never take you where the Grace of God will not protect you.

Works in progress:

The Diegosian Mark, 115,600 words (Preparing for Publication)
The Diegosian Rider, 121,400 words (Finished)
The Diegosian Warrior, 15,000 (In Progress)


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 Post subject: Re: A flat earth
PostPosted: October 27th, 2010, 8:50 pm 
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So we should think of a Peanut Butter and Jelly sandwich? The Jelly is the gravity, and the bread is the ground? I'm assuming gravity works differently than on earth.

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 Post subject: Re: A flat earth
PostPosted: October 27th, 2010, 10:00 pm 
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Yes, that's about it, Elanhil. Gravity in my world is a flat layer, keeping things on either side (both slices of bread) grounded. I realize that's probably not the way it works in our world, but I think that's a reasonable enough explanation for fantasy to be believable.

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 Post subject: Re: A flat earth
PostPosted: October 31st, 2010, 8:28 pm 
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That works, but doesn't make sense to our laws of physics. But then again, you don't have to follow our laws or even make your own. (C.S. Lewis didn't.) What is really important is that it's how you want it, violating laws or not.

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 Post subject: Re: A flat earth
PostPosted: November 6th, 2010, 7:48 pm 
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Exactly. You just have to make sure the laws are applied consistently throughout the story in a way people can understand. Of course, for every rule there is almost always an exception... :D

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 Post subject: Re: A flat earth
PostPosted: November 6th, 2010, 10:50 pm 
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What if everything in the world had a magnetic charge? And they were all attracted to the middle? Maybe their charge is small and couldn't be attracted to other objects or something.

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 Post subject: Re: A flat earth
PostPosted: November 8th, 2010, 10:36 am 
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Elanhil, that's a really intriguing idea. I'll have to ponder that one and mull over the implications, but that might be fun. Thanks!

Lizzie, I agree - consistency is key. :)

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 Post subject: Re: A flat earth
PostPosted: November 8th, 2010, 8:54 pm 
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Just don't over-think it and get distracted from the plot. I remember now that you said you didn't want to worry too much about how it worked. Just that it did. Ignore me.

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 Post subject: Re: A flat earth
PostPosted: November 8th, 2010, 11:02 pm 
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You're funny. I won't - and amn't - over-thinking it, but this kind of logistics I can mull over while I write. Whether it's gravity or magnetism doesn't effect the scenes I'm currently writing. Some of these changes I may also address during revisions, when I will be at liberty to over-think it. So, you're fine, and your ideas are welcome. :)

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 Post subject: Re: A flat earth
PostPosted: November 9th, 2010, 10:07 am 
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Whew! Good to know I wasn't being annoying.

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