...most of the common fantasy races have developed them.

Think about it. Do you get a distinct image in your head when you are presented with the word 'dwarf', 'elf', or 'dragon'?

These stereotypes and others like them are likely to play a huge roll in how our readers view our races, so describing your race as an 'elf race' is going to make an impact, for better or for worse. In light of that, do you ever use these stereotypes to your advantage? Or do you go to great lengths to make up a name for your fantasy race so that people won't picture elves of Middle Earth when they see think of your race?

(Sorry if this is in the wrong spot.)

I was going to make the same topic! You mind reader! *Throws-anti-mind reading magical chocolate pudding at Sui's head* I'm still thinking on how I approach Stereotypes.

*laughs* I look forward to your return to this thread when you figure it all out.

For me, I've decided to approach stereotypes on a case-by-case basis. In Murel, the stereotypical dwarf is exactly what I'm trying to achieve. So, 'calling it what it is', has the potential to be extremely helpful.
On the other hand, my vampires do not match the common stereotype, and therefore calling them that would be detrimental. Also, I don't want a certain race that is similar to Tolkien elves in certain respects to be associated with Tolkien's elves or the imps of fairy tales. This particular race is nowheres near being either, so calling them elves would be a hindrance to the story.

This is a great point, Mark. This is why I went out of my way to not only name my races otherworldly names, but also to describe them as a distinct race. It does have an impact. Because if I hear elf, I'll just think of Tolkien and any description given to me will be lost.

Either that or one of Santa's helpers...

Um...I'm not sure how I'm going to approach this...most of the races in my story are pretty much the stereotype (centaurs, minotaurs) that goes with their name...I'm ashamed to say I've never actually invented a race.
I suppose they will be to my advantage if there's anyone else out their that loves Narnian Centaurs, Minotaurs, etc, because mine will be similar in certain ways that hopefully will capture the likability of the Narnian creatures while still obviously being Vadrite sentients.
Oh, and humans too, I'm using that stereotype in a lot of ways. While discarding other parts of it due to the fact that humans are a lot different there...

I think most authors fall into the term human, to be honest...

That's fine. Great fantasy doesn't require a made-up race.

*laughs*

If I know what you mean....Yeah, it's interesting in a way, but seems totally natural in another. I mean...what would Narnia have been without any humans?...It'd still be a pretty awesome world I guess, but it'd be a lot different and not necessarily for the better. Same thing for Middle-Earth.
I think the cool thing about having "humans" on another world is that you get to see "us" in another place being a different sort of people than normal.



I know, thanks for the encouragement. Still, I do hope to invent a race sometime...

First of all, stereotypes are useful things; we are not Ents (who almost certainly delight in, to use an example from a different area of worldbuilding, describing "a valley" as "a narrow low place between two mountains with a creek running through and filled with oak trees and inhabited by a herd of deer ...", only with each of the nouns and adjectives in that desription explained in much greater length than I gave the whole thing), so it's nice to be able to let the reader "fill in the blanks" for us. (They're useful even in ordinary life; the danger is in assuming that, or acting as if, they are a complete and accurate description of reality, instead of a mostly-accurate executive summary.)

Second, at least in fiction, stereotypes and tropes can change. Tolkien had to explicitly (if I recall correctly) distinguish his elves and dwarves from the "brownies" and malevolent earth spirits of folklore, for example.

What I do (and I think can work really well if done properly) is to start with these tropes or stereotypes, then in a few places turn them on their head. In my world, for example, if you want to know some obscure bit of anient lore that's probably mentioned in a book you only know exists because of a footnote in a manuscript that only survives because of what was written on the opposite side of the parchment, you go not to the elves, but to the great underground cities of the dwarves, who have delved deep and traded far and wide in search of knowledge. But most of the other characteristics of the dwarves are much as any reader of modern fantasy might expect.

I completely agree.

I hadn't though of that, but makes sense. However, unless one is writing specifically for a generation or three down the line, I do not see how that applies to how we should approach stereotypes in writing now.

Incidentally, there was one instance where Tolkien had to back away from a worldbuilding element because of the common stereotype. Originally, one of the Elvish tribes was called the Gnomes because of their love of knowledge, but, because of the prevalent malevolent-spirit-of-folklore-stereotype, he decided to change their name to be the Noldor.

I do that myself. The elvish-like race and the vampires started very similar to their common stereotype, but diverged (in some places dramatically) from there.

Nice idea for your dwarves. It makes complete sense too.

Two things: first, we shouldn't rely too heavily on stereotypes or tropes, because our readers might not have the same background we do. (Many of my favorite books are decades or centuries old; I hope my work will survive as well as some of them ...) And second, we shouldn't worry too much about combating the stereotypes (i.e. making the differences between our ideas and the tropes explicit early and often), since if we're successful we might even change the popular conceptions.


Interesting.

*nods* Makes sense.

I like to avoid stereotypes, because they are so overused. The only race I have in my fantasy world is humans, actually.

You do realize that race has a lot of stereotypes...right?

You know what I meant.

So you mean cliches?

Yes, the cliche fantasy races, such as elves, dwarves, etc. Particularly elves. I don't know why. I just don't like them very much.

I'm the same about elves, I hate them but love them at the same time...hence they're not in Vadra yet but might make an appearance. I actually have dwarves because I like them as a cliche race, if that makes no sense at all. (that isn't to say I'm not going to change them up and make them my own in different ways though)

Great discussion, gang!
In fact, the ideas expressed here are very similar to and in total agreement with the thoughts expressed in The Writer's Complete Fantasy Reference, in it's chapter on races. Most of the chapter highlights the most popular fantasy races (Dwarves, Elves, Fairies, Giants, Goblins & Orcs, Halflings & Hybrids, Merfolk, and Trolls), and different ways that other authors have found to put unique twists on the old stereotypes. So needless to say, when I saw yall talking about refreshing the stereotypes with your own twists, I was I like " I've read the exact same advice before! "

*nods* That's a point Michael McCrae brings out in his chapter, "Race Creation" in the The Complete Guide to Writing Fantasy. He also points out that with races that you create on your own, you have to do more descriptive work because the readers will have no pre-established associations to fill in the gaps with.

So basically, I agree that stereotypes can be helpful when used intelligently, but I thought I'd share one last helpful thought:
P.S. - Sorry, for all the referrals to other sources and quotes, still in college-paper mode, I guess.

I like stereotypes, they can provide a starting point. At the same time, I can also work without them. Win win.

In Xystia, near the beginning of its development, there were Elves, Dwarves, and Fairies. Over time, however, they changed to Silvuns, Forgers, and Shurneh. Each race still bears some of the physical characteristics of their former selves -- Silvuns have pointed ears, Forgers are shorter, and Shurneh have veined wings -- but their cultures have developed so much that they are now similiar, but very distinct from their former 'cliches'.

On top of that, there are several unique races that did not have their beginnings in a specific sterotype -- Ka'al, Meerinorans, Ostians, Baalks -- and all added together with the other races, Xystia ends up with a fairly diverse and distinctive population. Oh, yeah, there are humans, as well.

So I guess I'm saying that, in my opinion, stereotypes are just another tool. They don't have to be avoided like the plague, they just have to be used right, and also not used at all when a different tool would be better used in its place. It's worked for me so far.

*grins* I should find this book....

I would argue that elves are not a cliche. There are three terms here, related but distinct: "trope" (a way stories tend to or usually go), "stereotype" (stronger than "trope", and refers to concrete descriptions rather than general patterns), and "cliche" (a trope, a stereotype, or even a phrase that has been so overused that it usually prevents anything that uses it from being taken seriously). "Boy meets girl" and "the rightful king incognito" are tropes; "dwarves are short and stoky, great miners, and gruff in personality" is a stereotype. The best example of a true cliche I can ome up with is the line "It was a dark and stormy night"; if you start a story with that (A Wrinkle in Time notwithstanding), you're marking the story as something not to be taken seriously, and probably a farce. Elves may be a somewhat overused stereotype, but authors keep bringing enough unique twists to them that ---with new and original portrayals---they can still be used in serious fantasy.

Well-said, kingjon.

I've read that too, and didn't even realize it till you pointed it out!

That's great advice...to truly develop a character would inspire a lot of questions that would apply to developing his race as well.



Good point, Kingjon. =D