Holy Worlds Christian Forum :: View topic - IMPORTANT - Please read! A possible plan for the forums!

Our Vision:
Why we exist, and what we do.

Holy Worlds is here to encourage, equip, train,
challenge, and facilitate quality and effective use of niche media genres
for the glory of God and the furtherance of Christian culture.

This is our prime, overriding purpose, and this is the reason that we exist. Everything we do should either come from this, or move towards this. We facilitate and help other things outside of this purpose via a trickle effect, but not directly. For example, we help people be respectful to their parents, but we do that by fulfilling our prime objective here. Our thrust is to fulfill our mission, that mission is there to glorify God in all of life.

My concern is the amount of work it would be to do all this.

I take it that we would be transferring full threads over here and such. As always, the transition stage would be ticklish and probably annoying to the members caught in the middle of it. And change is not always fun in the middle of it.

I'm tentatively in favor. (I haven't "voted" yet because there isn't a nuanced option for "wildly in favor if ... but against if not" )

I wouldn't be happy at having to migrate my bookmarks and subscriptions yet again, and I had some other reservations that I can't remember at the moment.

On the other hand, like I said in the other thread, HW currently takes up almost a quarter of the "pinned" tabs on my browser; being able to see whether there's anything new in all of HW in one tab would be a great good in my opinion.

I think this is a good idea. HF and Sci-Fi have very little activity and I think having it all in one place makes for easier navigation, simplifies things and makes less work than to keep hopping back and forth between the patchwork forums. I suggested it awhile back but got the idea the bosses were not in favour so sat back and waited. I look forward to the changes

Overall, I like the idea of condensing and putting everything into one forum. It is after all, along the lines of the (May 2013?) account-merge thing that we did before, right?

Speaking of which, if this merge does go through permanently, what will happen to the unfixed threads we have on HF and Sci-Fi?

Another minor point on my part is that I liked the individuality that each forum had, even the Citadel, but again, that's just a minor point.

I really like this idea. I think it will allow for some more cross pollination between genres and help build a better community.

One other thing I would love to see on HW eventually is a simple "Fiction" genre. I have been delving into writing screenplays lately. Those stories generally fall into a more reality based feel. It would be like the Historical Fiction genre but without the History. I would be willing to try to help get this section started if need be.

1
There is an idea here that I am very enthusiastic about: the separation out of what is really genre specific.
However, in the proposed plan, I do not see them fully separated. I think that will need more work. The thing I hope it will solve is the necessity of posting a thread in three or four places and copying posts and setting links back and forth between them. No doubt this also makes it far less likely people will find the things they are interested in, when they have three, four, or five different places to look.
I definitely would like to see that fixed.

2
We always need to remember our original vision, which was why we came here, and was what we came here to do. How we go about it can and should change, but this change must be to better serve the vision.
Even for those who have not directly read the vision of Holy Worlds, they are here because of the vision of the people who were here already.

Quote:

3
The forum should never move towards being merely another writing forum, since we do not want to be trying to do someone else's job. And there are a lot of people doing a far better job in that than we could ever do, since we would be changing our focus and starting from a completely different foundation.

We also do not have the right people: we all came because we were Christian Fantasy/Sci-fi/Historical Fiction writers. If we wanted to do something more general we would have to get a lot more variety into our backgrounds. And with such a large community already here it would be very hard to draw anyone but the sort of people we have already.

4
Even if many things in this forum would apply to writers in general, there is another aspect that has to be considered.
Whenever you have something that tells you how to write, the first thing it tells you is to think about who your audience is.
This works the other way as well. Everything that has been written in this forum was written for a specific audience, not writers in general, but people who want to help in writing Christian Fantasy/Sci-fi/Historical Fiction.

Everything may not be Fantasy specific, or Sci-fi specific, or Historical fiction specific, but everything is Christian Fantasy/Sci-fi/Historical Fiction specific. I definitely would not mind having all three on one page, as long as it remained those three.

Christian Fantasy/Sci-fi/Historical Fiction writers is hard to say, but it is who we are in particular. A Holy Worlder is a very specific type of writer.

5
I do not know, but I tend to think that the lesser activity on the other two forums consists of a lot of activity by a few people. So they may be helping a lot, just for fewer people.
Remember that the Fantasy forum is vastly more active than most ordinary forums, so we probably should not use it as a measure of how well the other two are doing.
If we disable the other two forums it may not be so bad for us, but it could be near catastrophic for those who do use them.
And it certainly would not be catastrophic for us to let them continue. Reorganization within forums is easier and less of a risk to people hard earned posts.

I think that the change will not be as easy as it appears. It is easy to make the links to the other forums stop working, but to start any conversations from scratch, without access to any of the previous conversations or posts?

And if it is made permanent, we would have to move all the threads over, and something could go wrong, like last time, and things could get confused, or lost. And the whole time those threads and posts would have to wait longer to be able to be used, even if nothing went wrong.

6
In conclusion (someone wake up Pooh), I think we should work on putting the things specific to all three genres in one place, and the things specific to only one or two of the genres together in other places.
But we should not be adding any other genres, individually or in mass.

Tsahraf ChahsidMimetes, well said. I retract the request to make a "fiction" section; however, I do still think that it never hurts to discuss topics that are not genre specific, aka writing in general. It is also helpful to stretch each other as writers in ways we are not used to being stretched. I think you are basically saying this, Tsahraf, but with an emphasis on caution. I just want to place emphasis on the possible benefits of the change. There are certain topics and discussions that would benefit from the cross-pollination of the other forums. I for one am all about mixed genre stories, yet I am not sure where to start such discussions. I think that if everything was in one place, it would help to boost creativity and make for more lively discussions.

I have basically frequented Historical only up till now, because that's what I write, but I've always had the sense that the Fantasy and Sci-Fi forums were much busier. I definitely wouldn't want the historical-specific sub-forums to go away, because that's where my main interest lies, but I do think it would be nice to have access to a more active community when it comes to things like general writing discussion (as a previous poster mentioned, without having to visit a number of different forums/threads on the same general topics).

Keep in mind, we would be keeping the Citadel.

Quote:

Keep in mind, we would be keeping the Citadel.

What would be the purpose of keeping the Citadel if everything else is condensed into one forum? Wasn't the Citadel supposed to be a central place so forum-wide discussions and general stuff could occur? If everything else gets condensed, there wouldn't be much need for the Citadel. It'd probably end up turning into the next Fountain, since it would mean going somewhere entirely different for a lot of announcements and planning.

I agree with Varon here; I think it would be good to keep the Citadel to expand into the Club plans that we have (people having their own forum rooms and so on), but I don't think Captain discussions and etc should be held on a different forum when we would only have one forum. It's hard enough for some people to remember to check the Captain/Mod rooms, and if we're going to drop to one forum, I think we should bring those back to the one forum to simplify things, personally.

Varon wrote:

Quote:

Keep in mind, we would be keeping the Citadel.

Yes, yes, if we go ahead and do this, be careful.

All this swapping around is a scary idea because something could break.

On another note, I think that combining forums may bring more people's attention to the less-read boards and threads, and help encourage more interaction there. I would love to spend more time on HWSF and HWHF but people comment so rarely that I don't get a lot of feedback over there, ya know? One reason why I hang around HWF so much instead. XD

Yes, yes, if we go ahead and do this, be careful.

All this swapping around is a scary idea because something could break.

I agree that it could help to have a contemporary fiction (place only about story and not the elements of particular genres) spot, for people who don't write fantasy or sci fi or historical fiction. No genre is better than the other, except in personal preferences. I think it would help the forum grow, and don't think it would hinder the vision of this forum.

kingjon wrote:

I'm tentatively in favor. (I haven't "voted" yet because there isn't a nuanced option for "wildly in favor if ... but against if not" )

You never gave your if and if not conditions.

What would make you wildly in favor, or against it?

kingjon wrote:

Hmm. Totally get this. That could be pretty frustrating, and I don't think there's a way to avoid having to resubscribe. But I don't think there would be as many threads to subscribe to in the transition. My plan was to, at least for now, bring over mainly the currently, or recently, active posts on the other forums. That way we wouldn't have to wade through non-active posts, kind of like a giant spring cleaning. I don't know if this helps at all, though.

Just to say up front: I think it's a good idea to put all three genres in the same forum. Just... maybe be really careful when you do it, and try to make the places more specific to what they're supposed to be for, so that it narrows down where a certain topic should be posted. Otherwise it gets harder to navigate. Ever since I first came here, I noticed that the places to talk were very generalized and not very specific, and therefore a ton of different topics could get lost in it and not be organized. I would really like to see that change, even if that means the amount of scrolling on the forum index would grow.

I agree that it could help to have a contemporary fiction (place only about story and not the elements of particular genres) spot, for people who don't write fantasy or sci fi or historical fiction. No genre is better than the other, except in personal preferences. I think it would help the forum grow, and don't think it would hinder the vision of this forum.

One thing I'd really be happy about: Please better organize the Village Lore area(maybe split it up into two or three categories? One that's purely about character writing, for instance. Because there are a Lot of topics about character writing, and so many other things to consider, it's kind of hard to navigate that place, even with the Index.)

One thing I'm slightly worried about is that putting all three genres together may make it even harder to navigate here. Make sure to name places specifically, so that you know what it's for, and so that it's easier to find topics about a certain thing.

So yeah. Good idea, just... be careful with everything. (:

Yes, yes, if we go ahead and do this, be careful.

All this swapping around is a scary idea because something could break.

I've pulled together a few thoughts, although I do admit I feel disconnected lately due to being away.

I've thought of a few specific things as far as structure. One, The Fireside could get quickly and rapidly overwhelmed if all the genres were put together, so we might want to keep that genre-specific. In addition, I think Charrie Intros/Marketing might be helpful to keep genre-specific, but I'm less certain on that.

I think the main question that keeps coming to mind, for me, is whether we want a mega-community of writerly things, or a series of interlocked genre-specific forums. I think whichever direction we go will affect the essence of the forums.

I'm not the hugest fan of change in the world, myself, but I do recognize it's a necessary thing; I'm trying not to go off of the fact that it's just different. I can see both sides of this issue, and so logically, I don't know where I am at the moment. If anyone wants me to unpack what I've said, I'd love to do so.

Kingjon, bookmarks and subscriptions on this forum board shouldn't change, as none of the threads on here are being touched. The only ones that would lose current subscriptions and bookmarks would be the threads on HWSF and HF, as new threads would be made to transfer topics over here.

Just to let you guys know, we've put a deadline for 31st of May for discussing this before it happens. We'd like to get this started in the first week of June so that it's ready for Summer.

Lady Elanor wrote:

I gathered that---it was the same way in "Project Anduin." However, I would guess that about half of my bookmarks are on HWSF

. And in Project Anduin, I could simply make a list of all my subscriptions and bookmarks before the "flag day," then visit the URLs afterwards and re-subscribe or re-bookmark. (Still better, because URLs didn't change, my off-site bookmarks still worked.) Since URLs are going to change---at least for any active threads---it'll be a lot more work to get "back to normal" with this transition, unless something is done to make HWSF and HWHF URLs redirect to equivalent threads in the unified forum.

Lady Elanor wrote:

Just to let you guys know, we've put a deadline for 31st of May for discussing this before it happens. We'd like to get this started in the first week of June so that it's ready for Summer.

So I now have a date to get caught up on HW by.

kingjon wrote:

Lady Elanor wrote:

Just to let you guys know, we've put a deadline for 31st of May for discussing this before it happens. We'd like to get this started in the first week of June so that it's ready for Summer.

So I now have a date to get caught up on HW by.

That's the date we'll start making the transfer, but it won't be the date the other forums are disabled. We'll give people plenty of time to catch up/retrieve threads they want to keep.

My vote doesn't add to the discussion at all, but I've run many polls in the past, so I know its always nice to know why people vote as they did.

I voted to abstain. I am very new to the forums and am just figuring my way around them as they are now. I'd be happy if they stayed, but I'd also be happy with the proposed changes. Those that have been here a lot longer and put the work and effort into making this place the great place it is deserve to make the decision, not a newbie like me

One final thought- with any community, be it online, in person, in church, school, work...wherever: ultimately, it is the people that make the community, not the building or website. Holy Worlds has some of the best people I've had interaction with, so I am sure that, no matter what path is taken, it will be great because the people here are great!

I'll ask Andrew about re-directing and see what he says; if he couldn't do it with project Anduin though, I don't think he'll be able to do it with this either.

Thanks for commenting, Shawn! I personally don't think Marketing would need separate rooms, but I agree that Character Introductions may. It's definitely something to consider. Unless we have a system where a thread was marked via the title to note what genre it was for? But otherwise we could just have sections within the room for each.

I also completely agree about the Fireside. It would definitely be too cluttered, I think, with all the genres in one room. We could either change the Fireside to have Genre named rooms, and not separate novels/poetry/short stories etc, and have people mark their title with what category if falls under. Or we could have genre named rooms with the sections inside like we have them now. But I agree they should be separate.

Hmm, well the forums will still have a large genre focus - but we will still have a large writing focus, as we are a writing forum. The specific genre focus will still be there though.

As to change - I know. Anyone who knows me knows how much I love the Historical Fiction forum. I've always been very partial to it. So I understand how people feel who are very fond of the SF forum and etc. A lot of people put work and a lot of effort into setting those forums up, and getting them off the ground. It's not an easy decision to make, but I do feel that it is a necessary one. I'm not sure anyone is a fan of change - it's like when you move house. You might love the new area you're moving into, but the whole move can be rather a lot of work - I don't think change is ever easy personally.

I don't find it so anyway. But I do think that this change will benefit the forum long term.

While looking through the New Posts earlier today, I was struck with the lack of focused discussion. Discussions were being had, but the point of the discussions seemed all on the community of writers, and little to no focus was on learning and applying.

I was thinking primarily the latter (though by no means necessarily that formal sounding), though I could see applications for the first too.

Does that make sense? xD

(Not many. Not many that are coherent anyway.

Honestly... I think that there could be consequences, which I worry about, but the decision seems to have already been made.)

Author:	Captain Nemo Marlene [ April 7th, 2014, 10:39 am ]
Post subject:	IMPORTANT - Please read! A possible plan for the forums!
So, I was looking at the comments that people have had on the forums and some of the ideas tossed around. And then I looked at the forums. And I did what I do: I organized. So please hear my out and read through this idea. Then give your vote in the poll on what you think. I figured poll voting would be the easiest way to see if you, our forum members, would like to see this idea happen. (Note: when I say things like, "We will," I mean that if the plan goes through. Not that it has actually been decided to happen yet.) I looked at all three forums and separated the items that make them genre specific, and which ones are more general writing. I discovered that the genre specific items were, or could be condensed easily to, 6-7 subforums. Just think about that: the entire genre specific forums really are 6-7 subforums. Is this really enough to keep the genres separate? So I came up with a plan, and it will be easily reversible, so if we want to give it a trial run and decide to revert to our old format, it won't be a big deal. First, we'll make the links to sci-fi and historical stop working. The forums will still be there, so if we want to revert back to them, we'll just pick up where we left off. Nothing lost there. Then we turn the Fantasy side into a more all-encompassing forum (stay with me, this will be explained later). Elanor has talked about making the forums more writing focused, which I think this will help with. I think this may be able to help with a community feel, too. And it should allow us to start on possibly allowing for clubs sooner. So we take all of the non-genre specific areas and put them all on the writing forum and allow all genres, or no genres, be discussed in those areas. The forum's purpose will be focused on writing instead of just genres. So you could get writing help, work on poetry, ask for help on poetry, review other stories, develop your own, role play, etc. From there, we will still have Fantasy, Sci-fi, and Historical Fiction. We'll take the areas on each forum that truly are genre-specific (the 6-7 subforums) and put them in their designated genre area. People who want to just talk Fantasy, Sci-Fi, or Historical, develop those areas, and work on just those genre-specific items can go to those areas. And then we'll have areas for discussions, general talk, and things like that. My mental image for this plan is a book store or convention type setting. In a convention, you have the general assemblies, general talks and informative sessions, break out sessions to more specific areas, and coffee breaks to talk. Or, book store visual: You have the reference desk, all of the books, some specific sections, and a coffee shop for talk. I think laying it all out for y'all might be easier. So take a look (the names in parenthesis are just suggestions. Feel free to suggest your own! And obviously the actual room names will need to be adapted from Fantasy specific names.): Oh! One more thing. We'd keep the Citadel, but it'll be for clubs and rank official stuff only. Official/Non writing related stuff (Bulletin Board/Intercom/Reference Desk): Official Chatter Introductions and Celebrations Signing on, signing off Actual writing related stuff (finished products, helps, and tools): (The Workshop/Writers’ Table/Writers’ Conference/Bookshop/Round Table) Forge Writing Help [Village Lore + general helps and editing and stuff] Projects Quests Fire Side []Stories []Blog Posts []Scripts []Poetry []Essence []Arts Guild Genre Specific: (Fiction department/Genres) Fantasy []World Building []Culture []Magic and Cobha []Village Common []Realms Beyond []Triterrus Sci-Fi []Life Forms []Culture/Geography/History []Machines []Theoretical Stuff []Worlds/World Building []Science Class []Community Stories Historical Fiction []Ancient History – Fall of the Roman Empire []480 – 1700 Medieval, Renaissance, Reformation []1700-1900 Colonial through Turn of the Century []1900 – WWI through Present History []Science Discussion/General Historical Fiction Talk [*]Collaborative Stories Discussions/socializing/things beyond writing, such as publishing tips: (The Coffee Shop/Round Table/Conference Room/Coffee Break) Watch Tower Harold’s Hall Tricky Subjects (or in writing related stuff? Not sure) Theology Writing Discussion General Discussion The idea is that we'll be able to work together as one community focused on writing, instead of three different communities focused on just genres. But we'll still have the genres as a part of us. Also, this would make modding the areas much easier. Here's what it'd look like, all condensed, on the front page: Official/Non writing related stuff: Official Chatter Introductions and Celebrations Signing on, signing off Writing related stuff: Forge Writing Help Projects Quests Fire Side Genre Specific: Fantasy Sci-Fi Historical Fiction Discussions/socializing/things beyond writing, such as publishing tips: Watch Tower Harold’s Hall Tricky Subjects Theology Writing Discussion General Discussion What are your thoughts? Are you for, or against it? Please vote in the poll. Do you have additional ideas/changes you'd like to suggest? What problems do you potentially see? Please speak up. I'd love to hear your concerns or thoughts. Thanks for reading all the way through! Y'all are awesome!

Author:	Calista Bethelle [ April 7th, 2014, 11:29 am ]
Post subject:	Re: IMPORTANT - Please read! A possible plan for the forums!
When I first started reading this my initial reaction was "No!" I tend to dwell on the past too much, and it's hard for me to want to change the forum from the way I've known it for so long. However, I kept reading, and I do see the sense in this. Three separate forums hasn't seemed to work very well, and now with the addition of the Citadel it's even harder. For example, some people post goings and comings in the Citadel, some on the genre forums. It's all so confusing, and difficult to keep up with. So after some consideration, I realized that this could actually be a valuable change. (And I personally love the Fantasy theme the most, so it wouldn't be heartbreaking if we moved everything over to the Big Blue House. [I was actually very sad that we kept the sci-fi chat room instead of the Fantasy one, and am waiting for that to be fixed...]) Side notes aside. My concern is the amount of work it would be to do all this. I take it that we would be transferring full threads over here and such. As always, the transition stage would be ticklish and probably annoying to the members caught in the middle of it. And change is not always fun in the middle of it. So in conclusion, I would be willing to give this a go, although the nostalgic side of me rebels against the idea. I would be willing to help out in any implementation areas, although you may not want to saddle me with any vital things because they might explode.

Author:	kingjon [ April 7th, 2014, 2:09 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: IMPORTANT - Please read! A possible plan for the forums!
I'm tentatively in favor. (I haven't "voted" yet because there isn't a nuanced option for "wildly in favor if ... but against if not" ) I wouldn't be happy at having to migrate my bookmarks and subscriptions yet again, and I had some other reservations that I can't remember at the moment. On the other hand, like I said in the other thread, HW currently takes up almost a quarter of the "pinned" tabs on my browser; being able to see whether there's anything new in all of HW in one tab would be a great good in my opinion.

Author:	Legatus Christo [ April 7th, 2014, 5:35 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: IMPORTANT - Please read! A possible plan for the forums!
I think this is a good idea. HF and Sci-Fi have very little activity and I think having it all in one place makes for easier navigation, simplifies things and makes less work than to keep hopping back and forth between the patchwork forums. I suggested it awhile back but got the idea the bosses were not in favour so sat back and waited. I look forward to the changes

Author:	Balec Verge [ April 7th, 2014, 10:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: IMPORTANT - Please read! A possible plan for the forums!
Overall, I like the idea of condensing and putting everything into one forum. It is after all, along the lines of the (May 2013?) account-merge thing that we did before, right? Speaking of which, if this merge does go through permanently, what will happen to the unfixed threads we have on HF and Sci-Fi? Another minor point on my part is that I liked the individuality that each forum had, even the Citadel, but again, that's just a minor point.

Holy Worlds Christian Forum https://archive.holyworlds.org/

IMPORTANT - Please read! A possible plan for the forums! https://archive.holyworlds.org/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=8611	Page 1 of 2

Author:	Andorin [ April 9th, 2014, 7:21 am ]
Post subject:	Re: IMPORTANT - Please read! A possible plan for the forums!
I really like this idea. I think it will allow for some more cross pollination between genres and help build a better community. One other thing I would love to see on HW eventually is a simple "Fiction" genre. I have been delving into writing screenplays lately. Those stories generally fall into a more reality based feel. It would be like the Historical Fiction genre but without the History. I would be willing to try to help get this section started if need be.

Author:	Tsahraf ChahsidMimetes [ April 11th, 2014, 12:00 am ]
Post subject:	Re: IMPORTANT - Please read! A possible plan for the forums!
To make it easier to read I think I should number the different things I will be saying, but I do not want anyone to think that I am being stern or mad, I am just... puts on mustache 1 There is an idea here that I am very enthusiastic about: the separation out of what is really genre specific. However, in the proposed plan, I do not see them fully separated. I think that will need more work. The thing I hope it will solve is the necessity of posting a thread in three or four places and copying posts and setting links back and forth between them. No doubt this also makes it far less likely people will find the things they are interested in, when they have three, four, or five different places to look. I definitely would like to see that fixed. 2 We always need to remember our original vision, which was why we came here, and was what we came here to do. How we go about it can and should change, but this change must be to better serve the vision. Even for those who have not directly read the vision of Holy Worlds, they are here because of the vision of the people who were here already. Quote: Our Vision: Why we exist, and what we do. Holy Worlds is here to encourage, equip, train, challenge, and facilitate quality and effective use of niche media genres for the glory of God and the furtherance of Christian culture. This is our prime, overriding purpose, and this is the reason that we exist. Everything we do should either come from this, or move towards this. We facilitate and help other things outside of this purpose via a trickle effect, but not directly. For example, we help people be respectful to their parents, but we do that by fulfilling our prime objective here. Our thrust is to fulfill our mission, that mission is there to glorify God in all of life. 3 The forum should never move towards being merely another writing forum, since we do not want to be trying to do someone else's job. And there are a lot of people doing a far better job in that than we could ever do, since we would be changing our focus and starting from a completely different foundation. We also do not have the right people: we all came because we were Christian Fantasy/Sci-fi/Historical Fiction writers. If we wanted to do something more general we would have to get a lot more variety into our backgrounds. And with such a large community already here it would be very hard to draw anyone but the sort of people we have already. 4 Even if many things in this forum would apply to writers in general, there is another aspect that has to be considered. Whenever you have something that tells you how to write, the first thing it tells you is to think about who your audience is. This works the other way as well. Everything that has been written in this forum was written for a specific audience, not writers in general, but people who want to help in writing Christian Fantasy/Sci-fi/Historical Fiction. Everything may not be Fantasy specific, or Sci-fi specific, or Historical fiction specific, but everything is Christian Fantasy/Sci-fi/Historical Fiction specific. I definitely would not mind having all three on one page, as long as it remained those three. Christian Fantasy/Sci-fi/Historical Fiction writers is hard to say, but it is who we are in particular. A Holy Worlder is a very specific type of writer. 5 I do not know, but I tend to think that the lesser activity on the other two forums consists of a lot of activity by a few people. So they may be helping a lot, just for fewer people. Remember that the Fantasy forum is vastly more active than most ordinary forums, so we probably should not use it as a measure of how well the other two are doing. If we disable the other two forums it may not be so bad for us, but it could be near catastrophic for those who do use them. And it certainly would not be catastrophic for us to let them continue. Reorganization within forums is easier and less of a risk to people hard earned posts. I think that the change will not be as easy as it appears. It is easy to make the links to the other forums stop working, but to start any conversations from scratch, without access to any of the previous conversations or posts? And if it is made permanent, we would have to move all the threads over, and something could go wrong, like last time, and things could get confused, or lost. And the whole time those threads and posts would have to wait longer to be able to be used, even if nothing went wrong. 6 In conclusion (someone wake up Pooh), I think we should work on putting the things specific to all three genres in one place, and the things specific to only one or two of the genres together in other places. But we should not be adding any other genres, individually or in mass. 7 Just to make it seven points. 8 Just to make it not seven points. Heh!

Author:	Andorin [ April 12th, 2014, 9:55 am ]
Post subject:	Re: IMPORTANT - Please read! A possible plan for the forums!
Tsahraf ChahsidMimetes, well said. I retract the request to make a "fiction" section; however, I do still think that it never hurts to discuss topics that are not genre specific, aka writing in general. It is also helpful to stretch each other as writers in ways we are not used to being stretched. I think you are basically saying this, Tsahraf, but with an emphasis on caution. I just want to place emphasis on the possible benefits of the change. There are certain topics and discussions that would benefit from the cross-pollination of the other forums. I for one am all about mixed genre stories, yet I am not sure where to start such discussions. I think that if everything was in one place, it would help to boost creativity and make for more lively discussions.

Author:	Elisabeth Grace Foley [ April 15th, 2014, 6:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: IMPORTANT - Please read! A possible plan for the forums!
I have basically frequented Historical only up till now, because that's what I write, but I've always had the sense that the Fantasy and Sci-Fi forums were much busier. I definitely wouldn't want the historical-specific sub-forums to go away, because that's where my main interest lies, but I do think it would be nice to have access to a more active community when it comes to things like general writing discussion (as a previous poster mentioned, without having to visit a number of different forums/threads on the same general topics).

Author:	Captain Nemo Marlene [ April 16th, 2014, 8:46 am ]
Post subject:	Re: IMPORTANT - Please read! A possible plan for the forums!
Just so y'all know, I'm not ignoring this thread! I'm reading the posts. I hope to be responding soon. Thank you for giving your input, I really appreciate it.

Author:	Varon [ April 16th, 2014, 11:18 am ]
Post subject:	Re: IMPORTANT - Please read! A possible plan for the forums!
Quote: Keep in mind, we would be keeping the Citadel. What would be the purpose of keeping the Citadel if everything else is condensed into one forum? Wasn't the Citadel supposed to be a central place so forum-wide discussions and general stuff could occur? If everything else gets condensed, there wouldn't be much need for the Citadel. It'd probably end up turning into the next Fountain, since it would mean going somewhere entirely different for a lot of announcements and planning.

Author:	Lady Elanor [ April 16th, 2014, 11:24 am ]
Post subject:	Re: IMPORTANT - Please read! A possible plan for the forums!
Varon wrote: Quote: Keep in mind, we would be keeping the Citadel. What would be the purpose of keeping the Citadel if everything else is condensed into one forum? Wasn't the Citadel supposed to be a central place so forum-wide discussions and general stuff could occur? If everything else gets condensed, there wouldn't be much need for the Citadel. It'd probably end up turning into the next Fountain, since it would mean going somewhere entirely different for a lot of announcements and planning. I agree with Varon here; I think it would be good to keep the Citadel to expand into the Club plans that we have (people having their own forum rooms and so on), but I don't think Captain discussions and etc should be held on a different forum when we would only have one forum. It's hard enough for some people to remember to check the Captain/Mod rooms, and if we're going to drop to one forum, I think we should bring those back to the one forum to simplify things, personally.

Author:	Calista Bethelle [ April 16th, 2014, 12:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: IMPORTANT - Please read! A possible plan for the forums!
Lady Elanor wrote: I agree with Varon here; I think it would be good to keep the Citadel to expand into the Club plans that we have (people having their own forum rooms and so on), but I don't think Captain discussions and etc should be held on a different forum when we would only have one forum. It's hard enough for some people to remember to check the Captain/Mod rooms, and if we're going to drop to one forum, I think we should bring those back to the one forum to simplify things, personally. I absolutely agree about the Captain/Mod rooms. It's hard to remember to check those in the Citadel.

Author:	Captain Nemo Marlene [ April 21st, 2014, 10:18 am ]
Post subject:	Re: IMPORTANT - Please read! A possible plan for the forums!
Lady Elanor wrote: Varon wrote: Quote: Keep in mind, we would be keeping the Citadel. What would be the purpose of keeping the Citadel if everything else is condensed into one forum? Wasn't the Citadel supposed to be a central place so forum-wide discussions and general stuff could occur? If everything else gets condensed, there wouldn't be much need for the Citadel. It'd probably end up turning into the next Fountain, since it would mean going somewhere entirely different for a lot of announcements and planning. I agree with Varon here; I think it would be good to keep the Citadel to expand into the Club plans that we have (people having their own forum rooms and so on), but I don't think Captain discussions and etc should be held on a different forum when we would only have one forum. It's hard enough for some people to remember to check the Captain/Mod rooms, and if we're going to drop to one forum, I think we should bring those back to the one forum to simplify things, personally. Okay, that makes sense. And I think most of the information on the Citadel came from the Fantasy forums anyways, so it should be archived. So it shouldn't be too difficult to bring that back. I had said that we'd keep the Citadel because it seemed to work well from an administrative and official point of view. But we can move those back over if it really is more cumbersome over there. But, if we move all of that back over to the Fantasy forum, would we want to keep the Citadel? At that point, would it be easier to have the clubs on the same forum? It just seemed more organized having official work on one forum and actual writing work on another. But that could just be me.

Author:	Calista Bethelle [ April 21st, 2014, 11:30 am ]
Post subject:	Re: IMPORTANT - Please read! A possible plan for the forums!
It might seem more organized, but it also seems less-read. I see very very little participation in the mod rooms as compared to what they were when they were located on HWF. It just feels like nobody reads the Citadel. And, if we had a specific section set aside for the clubs or whatever, that seems organized enough...

Author:	Calista Bethelle [ April 22nd, 2014, 12:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: IMPORTANT - Please read! A possible plan for the forums!
Well, I'm glad I at least make sense. XD

Author:	Emilyn [ April 27th, 2014, 9:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: IMPORTANT - Please read! A possible plan for the forums!
Just to say up front: I think it's a good idea to put all three genres in the same forum. Just... maybe be really careful when you do it, and try to make the places more specific to what they're supposed to be for, so that it narrows down where a certain topic should be posted. Otherwise it gets harder to navigate. Ever since I first came here, I noticed that the places to talk were very generalized and not very specific, and therefore a ton of different topics could get lost in it and not be organized. I would really like to see that change, even if that means the amount of scrolling on the forum index would grow. I agree that it could help to have a contemporary fiction (place only about story and not the elements of particular genres) spot, for people who don't write fantasy or sci fi or historical fiction. No genre is better than the other, except in personal preferences. I think it would help the forum grow, and don't think it would hinder the vision of this forum. One thing I'd really be happy about: Please better organize the Village Lore area(maybe split it up into two or three categories? One that's purely about character writing, for instance. Because there are a Lot of topics about character writing, and so many other things to consider, it's kind of hard to navigate that place, even with the Index.) One thing I'm slightly worried about is that putting all three genres together may make it even harder to navigate here. Make sure to name places specifically, so that you know what it's for, and so that it's easier to find topics about a certain thing. So yeah. Good idea, just... be careful with everything. (:

Author:	Calista Bethelle [ April 28th, 2014, 10:19 am ]
Post subject:	Re: IMPORTANT - Please read! A possible plan for the forums!
Yes, yes, if we go ahead and do this, be careful. All this swapping around is a scary idea because something could break. On another note, I think that combining forums may bring more people's attention to the less-read boards and threads, and help encourage more interaction there. I would love to spend more time on HWSF and HWHF but people comment so rarely that I don't get a lot of feedback over there, ya know? One reason why I hang around HWF so much instead. XD

Author:	Balec Verge [ April 28th, 2014, 3:42 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: IMPORTANT - Please read! A possible plan for the forums!
Calista Beth Mimetes wrote: Yes, yes, if we go ahead and do this, be careful. All this swapping around is a scary idea because something could break. On another note, I think that combining forums may bring more people's attention to the less-read boards and threads, and help encourage more interaction there. I would love to spend more time on HWSF and HWHF but people comment so rarely that I don't get a lot of feedback over there, ya know? One reason why I hang around HWF so much instead. XD Yes, I agree with this 100%. The confusion over the forum linking we did a year ago and the work we did there was fine, in my opinion, but only because it was organized so we could carry it out efficiently. The only problem we had was when we ran into a user's posts who had deleted. So as long as the people in charge of this think things through and are very organized, I think it should work out fine.

Author:	Emilyn [ April 28th, 2014, 3:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: IMPORTANT - Please read! A possible plan for the forums!
Calista Beth Mimetes wrote: Yes, yes, if we go ahead and do this, be careful. All this swapping around is a scary idea because something could break. On another note, I think that combining forums may bring more people's attention to the less-read boards and threads, and help encourage more interaction there. I would love to spend more time on HWSF and HWHF but people comment so rarely that I don't get a lot of feedback over there, ya know? One reason why I hang around HWF so much instead. XD ^

Author:	Andorin [ April 28th, 2014, 7:27 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: IMPORTANT - Please read! A possible plan for the forums!
Emilyn wrote: I agree that it could help to have a contemporary fiction (place only about story and not the elements of particular genres) spot, for people who don't write fantasy or sci fi or historical fiction. No genre is better than the other, except in personal preferences. I think it would help the forum grow, and don't think it would hinder the vision of this forum. If this becomes a thing, then my offer still stands to help get it off the ground. I've been writing screenplays lately, and would love to be able to share the things I've been learning. If you wanted, I could head up an even more specific section on writing for films. I'm sure there are a vast amount of HW authors who have at least entertained the idea of making their stories into films. It is a really fun process, and it can open up your story to a wider audience if it is the sort of story that warrants being made into a film.

Author:	kingjon [ April 28th, 2014, 11:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: IMPORTANT - Please read! A possible plan for the forums!
Captain Nemo Marlene wrote: kingjon wrote: I'm tentatively in favor. (I haven't "voted" yet because there isn't a nuanced option for "wildly in favor if ... but against if not" ) You never gave your if and if not conditions. What would make you wildly in favor, or against it? I was vague because my thinking was and remains vague, I'm afraid. If you could manage to have old URLs (i.e. browser bookmarks) point to equivalent threads, that would certainly be a selling point. Captain Nemo Marlene wrote: kingjon wrote: I wouldn't be happy at having to migrate my bookmarks and subscriptions yet again, and I had some other reservations that I can't remember at the moment. On the other hand, like I said in the other thread, HW currently takes up almost a quarter of the "pinned" tabs on my browser; being able to see whether there's anything new in all of HW in one tab would be a great good in my opinion. Hmm. Totally get this. That could be pretty frustrating, and I don't think there's a way to avoid having to resubscribe. But I don't think there would be as many threads to subscribe to in the transition. My plan was to, at least for now, bring over mainly the currently, or recently, active posts on the other forums. That way we wouldn't have to wade through non-active posts, kind of like a giant spring cleaning. I don't know if this helps at all, though. Not just subscriptions ... bookmarks, sometimes of old and justly archived threads. I'm leery of anything that suggests some content might get lost somewhere. (I'd kept several topic-reply-notification emails in my inbox as Reply To This Soon, but now can't remember what I was going to say.)

Author:	Lady Elanor [ May 12th, 2014, 8:49 am ]
Post subject:	Re: IMPORTANT - Please read! A possible plan for the forums!
One thing I wanted to make you guys aware of is the Project that Andrew was working on last year, Project Anduin. It was a move that linked all the forums. Anyway, Andrew has done half the work, but the second half is not going to be completed for several reasons. I realised that although the Leadership were made aware of this, I hadn't officially let everyone on the forum know about it, and recently someone was asking me when the work would be completed - which it won't be. So basically, this move would also rectify all the bugs on the smaller forums caused by the linking, like the tags that no longer work, (spoiler notes, PM bugs and so on) and the mixed up user names. Some people feel that the bugs don't matter that much, but to me they're unprofessional and I'd rather have a bug free forums if possible. Some people have said to me that making this change won't necessarily bring more people in - and I agree that it isn't a solution to bringing more people to the forums. However, I believe it's more of a solution to keeping new members if they join. For instance, if I joined a writing forum for Historical Fiction, and when I had a look around there were only 3 or 4 (or maybe none, which it has been in the past) active posts, I wouldn't be tempted to stay. However if I joined a forum that had different sections dedicated to genres, and it was an active forum I would be far more interested in finding more out about it. I really believe that leaving the smaller forums as they are, because it's easier not to change things, will eventually end with them dying out. I don't personally have the mentality of 'they're quiet so just let them run along at their own pace until.....', because until what? I don't think they're just going to magically pick up pace of their own accord, and I think it's much more feasible to bring the forums together under one roof. Not only that, having three forums is much more work than having one. Now I know some of you have said 'just concentrate on the Fantasy forum, and leave the others to go along at their own pace', however although that's what my focus has been, it makes me feel like I'm just leaving them to die out -and I really don't want to do that. I don't think it would take more work to keep one forum up and running at all, in fact I think after the initial process of changing over it will be a lot easier to keep on top of everything. Many of us have full time jobs, full time schooling, actively pursuing being authors and so on, and running four forums - which is a lot of work - seems to be pointless when ideally we could be working on just one. Also, I want to make clear that whilst making this change should be pretty easy, undoing the work would be much tougher. Especially if things are very quiet - I think it would be impossible to go back to the way things were unless we were a very busy forum, and we felt that it was feasible to make some changes. I don't want you guys to think we might be 'trying' this, and seeing if it works. I think that once the change is made, it will be extremely hard to undo all the work if people decide they don't like it. Anyway, just a few things I wanted to add on to let you guys know what I'm thinking. We're not rushing with this; we know there are some people on the forum who are very busy, and they want to offer some thoughts but haven't been able to do so yet. Thanks for all the offers of help with the project, should we go ahead with it!

Author:	Captain Nemo Marlene [ May 12th, 2014, 9:05 am ]
Post subject:	Re: IMPORTANT - Please read! A possible plan for the forums!
Thanks, Elanor, for sharing that information!

Author:	Kiev Shawn [ May 12th, 2014, 11:28 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: IMPORTANT - Please read! A possible plan for the forums!
I've pulled together a few thoughts, although I do admit I feel disconnected lately due to being away. I've thought of a few specific things as far as structure. One, The Fireside could get quickly and rapidly overwhelmed if all the genres were put together, so we might want to keep that genre-specific. In addition, I think Charrie Intros/Marketing might be helpful to keep genre-specific, but I'm less certain on that. I think the main question that keeps coming to mind, for me, is whether we want a mega-community of writerly things, or a series of interlocked genre-specific forums. I think whichever direction we go will affect the essence of the forums. I'm not the hugest fan of change in the world, myself, but I do recognize it's a necessary thing; I'm trying not to go off of the fact that it's just different. I can see both sides of this issue, and so logically, I don't know where I am at the moment. If anyone wants me to unpack what I've said, I'd love to do so.

Author:	Lady Elanor [ May 22nd, 2014, 6:27 am ]
Post subject:	Re: IMPORTANT - Please read! A possible plan for the forums!
Emilyn wrote: Just to say up front: I think it's a good idea to put all three genres in the same forum. Just... maybe be really careful when you do it, and try to make the places more specific to what they're supposed to be for, so that it narrows down where a certain topic should be posted. Otherwise it gets harder to navigate. Ever since I first came here, I noticed that the places to talk were very generalized and not very specific, and therefore a ton of different topics could get lost in it and not be organized. I would really like to see that change, even if that means the amount of scrolling on the forum index would grow. I agree that it could help to have a contemporary fiction (place only about story and not the elements of particular genres) spot, for people who don't write fantasy or sci fi or historical fiction. No genre is better than the other, except in personal preferences. I think it would help the forum grow, and don't think it would hinder the vision of this forum. One thing I'd really be happy about: Please better organize the Village Lore area(maybe split it up into two or three categories? One that's purely about character writing, for instance. Because there are a Lot of topics about character writing, and so many other things to consider, it's kind of hard to navigate that place, even with the Index.) One thing I'm slightly worried about is that putting all three genres together may make it even harder to navigate here. Make sure to name places specifically, so that you know what it's for, and so that it's easier to find topics about a certain thing. So yeah. Good idea, just... be careful with everything. (: Hi Emilyn! Thank you for your suggestions! Having a space for contemporary fiction is certainly an option, however some people aren't too keen on the idea as they feel the forum focus is on niche genres - its in our vision that our focus is for niche genres. I think the concern is, if we divert from our forum vision, the focus of the forum might change considerably. Again, I'm not saying it's not going to be - it's just not something we'd want to rush with; so it might not be added into the change first thing, as it's something we'd need to discuss more. I think some people have been worried about how expansive the forum will get with everything on one forum, but I think it will be a massive improvement on having four separate forums - and I think it will be smaller than people realise as there will be sub forums. As for making sure that everything is clearly labelled, we'll definitely be careful with that when we're creating the rooms. (And if you have suggestions for changes to room names that we already have, don't be shy about shouting out!) We could have some specific sub forums in the Village Lore, but if we're not careful it will get even more confusing if there are too many rooms.

Author:	Lady Elanor [ May 22nd, 2014, 6:31 am ]
Post subject:	Re: IMPORTANT - Please read! A possible plan for the forums!
Kingjon, bookmarks and subscriptions on this forum board shouldn't change, as none of the threads on here are being touched. The only ones that would lose current subscriptions and bookmarks would be the threads on HWSF and HF, as new threads would be made to transfer topics over here. Andorin, Aubrey was going to set up a room for script writing. I think she's just got majorly busy and it didn't happen. So I think adding that to the forum somewhere won't be a problem.

Author:	Lady Elanor [ May 22nd, 2014, 6:36 am ]
Post subject:	Re: IMPORTANT - Please read! A possible plan for the forums!
Calista Beth Mimetes wrote: Yes, yes, if we go ahead and do this, be careful. All this swapping around is a scary idea because something could break. On another note, I think that combining forums may bring more people's attention to the less-read boards and threads, and help encourage more interaction there. I would love to spend more time on HWSF and HWHF but people comment so rarely that I don't get a lot of feedback over there, ya know? One reason why I hang around HWF so much instead. XD It should be a simple process really, as it just means the forum will go back to being one instead of three, and we're simply creating new rooms then. But I understand the concern; there were unforeseen glitches in the Anduin Project. Yes, I think it's why a lot of people have stopped commenting on SF and HF, Calista. If you want to get a discussion going, it's pretty hard if there's only about three or four regular members over there.

Author:	Lady Elanor [ May 22nd, 2014, 6:51 am ]
Post subject:	Re: IMPORTANT - Please read! A possible plan for the forums!
Kiev Shawn wrote: I've pulled together a few thoughts, although I do admit I feel disconnected lately due to being away. I've thought of a few specific things as far as structure. One, The Fireside could get quickly and rapidly overwhelmed if all the genres were put together, so we might want to keep that genre-specific. In addition, I think Charrie Intros/Marketing might be helpful to keep genre-specific, but I'm less certain on that. I think the main question that keeps coming to mind, for me, is whether we want a mega-community of writerly things, or a series of interlocked genre-specific forums. I think whichever direction we go will affect the essence of the forums. I'm not the hugest fan of change in the world, myself, but I do recognize it's a necessary thing; I'm trying not to go off of the fact that it's just different. I can see both sides of this issue, and so logically, I don't know where I am at the moment. If anyone wants me to unpack what I've said, I'd love to do so. Thanks for commenting, Shawn! I personally don't think Marketing would need separate rooms, but I agree that Character Introductions may. It's definitely something to consider. Unless we have a system where a thread was marked via the title to note what genre it was for? But otherwise we could just have sections within the room for each. I also completely agree about the Fireside. It would definitely be too cluttered, I think, with all the genres in one room. We could either change the Fireside to have Genre named rooms, and not separate novels/poetry/short stories etc, and have people mark their title with what category if falls under. Or we could have genre named rooms with the sections inside like we have them now. But I agree they should be separate. Hmm, well the forums will still have a large genre focus - but we will still have a large writing focus, as we are a writing forum. The specific genre focus will still be there though. As to change - I know. Anyone who knows me knows how much I love the Historical Fiction forum. I've always been very partial to it. So I understand how people feel who are very fond of the SF forum and etc. A lot of people put work and a lot of effort into setting those forums up, and getting them off the ground. It's not an easy decision to make, but I do feel that it is a necessary one. I'm not sure anyone is a fan of change - it's like when you move house. You might love the new area you're moving into, but the whole move can be rather a lot of work - I don't think change is ever easy personally. I don't find it so anyway. But I do think that this change will benefit the forum long term.

Author:	Lady Elanor [ May 22nd, 2014, 6:55 am ]
Post subject:	Re: IMPORTANT - Please read! A possible plan for the forums!
Just to let you guys know, we've put a deadline for 31st of May for discussing this before it happens. We'd like to get this started in the first week of June so that it's ready for Summer. If you have any other suggestions/concerns or comments keep them coming! We're still discussing this with you, however we just want to be sure that we have a start date to aim for.

Author:	fox4god [ May 22nd, 2014, 8:45 am ]
Post subject:	Re: IMPORTANT - Please read! A possible plan for the forums!
My vote doesn't add to the discussion at all, but I've run many polls in the past, so I know its always nice to know why people vote as they did. I voted to abstain. I am very new to the forums and am just figuring my way around them as they are now. I'd be happy if they stayed, but I'd also be happy with the proposed changes. Those that have been here a lot longer and put the work and effort into making this place the great place it is deserve to make the decision, not a newbie like me One final thought- with any community, be it online, in person, in church, school, work...wherever: ultimately, it is the people that make the community, not the building or website. Holy Worlds has some of the best people I've had interaction with, so I am sure that, no matter what path is taken, it will be great because the people here are great!

Author:	kingjon [ May 22nd, 2014, 8:51 am ]
Post subject:	Re: IMPORTANT - Please read! A possible plan for the forums!
Lady Elanor wrote: Kingjon, bookmarks and subscriptions on this forum board shouldn't change, as none of the threads on here are being touched. The only ones that would lose current subscriptions and bookmarks would be the threads on HWSF and HF, as new threads would be made to transfer topics over here. I gathered that---it was the same way in "Project Anduin." However, I would guess that about half of my bookmarks are on HWSF . And in Project Anduin, I could simply make a list of all my subscriptions and bookmarks before the "flag day," then visit the URLs afterwards and re-subscribe or re-bookmark. (Still better, because URLs didn't change, my off-site bookmarks still worked.) Since URLs are going to change---at least for any active threads---it'll be a lot more work to get "back to normal" with this transition, unless something is done to make HWSF and HWHF URLs redirect to equivalent threads in the unified forum. Lady Elanor wrote: Just to let you guys know, we've put a deadline for 31st of May for discussing this before it happens. We'd like to get this started in the first week of June so that it's ready for Summer. So I now have a date to get caught up on HW by.

Author:	Lady Elanor [ May 22nd, 2014, 8:57 am ]
Post subject:	Re: IMPORTANT - Please read! A possible plan for the forums!
kingjon wrote: Lady Elanor wrote: Kingjon, bookmarks and subscriptions on this forum board shouldn't change, as none of the threads on here are being touched. The only ones that would lose current subscriptions and bookmarks would be the threads on HWSF and HF, as new threads would be made to transfer topics over here. I gathered that---it was the same way in "Project Anduin." However, I would guess that about half of my bookmarks are on HWSF . And in Project Anduin, I could simply make a list of all my subscriptions and bookmarks before the "flag day," then visit the URLs afterwards and re-subscribe or re-bookmark. (Still better, because URLs didn't change, my off-site bookmarks still worked.) Since URLs are going to change---at least for any active threads---it'll be a lot more work to get "back to normal" with this transition, unless something is done to make HWSF and HWHF URLs redirect to equivalent threads in the unified forum. Lady Elanor wrote: Just to let you guys know, we've put a deadline for 31st of May for discussing this before it happens. We'd like to get this started in the first week of June so that it's ready for Summer. So I now have a date to get caught up on HW by. That's the date we'll start making the transfer, but it won't be the date the other forums are disabled. We'll give people plenty of time to catch up/retrieve threads they want to keep. I'll ask Andrew about that, Kingjon and see what he says.

Author:	kingjon [ May 22nd, 2014, 9:08 am ]
Post subject:	Re: IMPORTANT - Please read! A possible plan for the forums!
Lady Elanor wrote: kingjon wrote: Lady Elanor wrote: Just to let you guys know, we've put a deadline for 31st of May for discussing this before it happens. We'd like to get this started in the first week of June so that it's ready for Summer. So I now have a date to get caught up on HW by. That's the date we'll start making the transfer, but it won't be the date the other forums are disabled. We'll give people plenty of time to catch up/retrieve threads they want to keep. I didn't mean caught up reading, I meant caught up replying ... whenever there's a post I want to reply to, I save the "topic reply" or "forum post" or "new thread" notification in my email inbox until I either get around to replying or decide against it. But unless a redirect scheme is implemented, all the links in those emails will become broken, so I'd better make my replies before then.