Oh yes! Lots, I think. I've seen that book, and heard some of the things people parallel. Tolkien allowed his worldview to seep into the story, he just didn't purpose to write a story about Christ, Christians, or Salvation. Some of the things people say are a bit of a stretch, though, I think. For instance, I do not think the elves represent the guardian angels that surround us.

How did Legolas represent Christ? *scratches head trying to think back over the book *

I have no idea o.o

I've heard people talk about Frodo's struggle with the ring being representative of man's struggle with sin, which I think is an excellent parallel. I’ve also heard people say that Frodo is like Christ, which I think is not so stellar of a parallel.

In the context of the world, Gandalf was basically an angel of Middle-earth, so I don't think he was supposed to be a representation of God... If anyone was to be a representative of Christ, I'd think it would be Aragorn though, given that he was a king in secret who suffered a metaphorical death (walking the paths of the dead) before being able to crush the enemy.

Course Tolkien said many times that LOTR was not supposed to be an allegory, but...

A lot of the people in LotR posses Christian or God-like qualities, and we can mix and match and learn from things that Tolkien writes. However, not everyone will notice the parallels and I don't think it's necessary to.

That comparison of Sam to the Holy Spirit is quite interesting.

A lot of the people in LotR posses Christian or God-like qualities, and we can mix and match and learn from things that Tolkien writes. However, not everyone will notice the parallels and I don't think it's necessary to.

That comparison of Sam to the Holy Spirit is quite interesting.

I also agree to that. *laughs * I'm in such an agreeable mood today.

Is that bad?

Oh! You stuck your tongue out and had a sad face, so I wasn't sure.

As Aratrea said, Tolkien insisted that he wasn't writing an allegory or even what C.S. Lewis called a "supposal." So I think any correlations drawn between LOTR and Christianity are subjective. He wasn't even intending to write a "Christian" story with purposefully placed underlying themes, which is evidenced by reading his preface to the 2nd edition (I think ). Any parallels that are present seeped into his writing of their own accord, I think, because his faith was intrinsic in his life so as to not help but shine through.

In terms of representations, I've heard plenty. Some of them Tolkien flat out debunked, but others are more ambiguous.

Frodo as a picture of Christ - This works to some extent because the Ring could be correlated to the burden of sin Christ bore, and also because it was Frodo's task to save the world. Anything beyond that doesn't hold much water in my opinion.

Gandalf as a picture of Christ - This one makes sense. He battled the Balrog and fell into darkness, was killed, and then resurrected. But Tolkien specifically said Gandalf was a sort of archangel incarnate in the world of Middle-earth.

God anywhere - This one doesn't apply to LOTR, because it never showed up, but in other writings of Tolkien, there was a supreme Diety, God, named Iluvatar, who created the world. So in that sense, Middle-earth (not directly LOTR) had a represnetation of God. But at the same time, Tolkien also had lesser gods, more based on the Greek pantheon if I'm not mistaken. So he was combining Greek mythology with Chrisitian mythology.

Aragorn and Sam as types of Christ - Aragorn works better, since he's a king coming to reclaim the throne and as Aratrea said, (figuratively) passed through the gates of death when entering the Dimholt before riding on to victory. Sam not so much.

The elves - I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that the elves were Tolkien's representation of humans perfected, but I could be wrong.

Thanks Tarin! I also heard that Gandalf's white horse can be seen as the chariot of fire that took Elijah into Heaven, but I;m not too sure about that one.

You'd need to really use your imagination to reach that conclusion.

The elves - I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that the elves were Tolkien's representation of humans perfected, but I could be wrong.

JRR Tolkien did not want anyone to try and find allegory in his work, and neither did he put it in there. He disapproved of C S Lewis's writing, actually. He believed that people would find things that were applicable to other things (people struggling with sin can relate to Frodo for instance), however there are no correlations he was trying to make.

No one was a representation of God, because God existed. If anyone was a representation of god, it was in the same sense that a lion is, or Corrie Ten Boom was, or a sunset is. Do you see what I mean?



Elves were far from perfect, and they were the Elder children, while men were the younger.

Yeah. I find these theories quite intriguing, though...

@Kidh Like I mentioned before, it may not have been what Tolkien intended for man to do, however, the Christian mind can correlate certain people with certain situations as you mentioned. I just wanted to see what you all thought of the claims that are being put out.

Exactly. It's fun.

No one was a representation of God, because God existed. If anyone was a representation of god, it was in the same sense that a lion is, or Corrie Ten Boom was, or a sunset is. Do you see what I mean?

Do you mean that God existed in Middle-earth in the form of Iluvatar?

That's a good question. did he?

At a foundational level, yes. Iluvatar was the God of Middle-earth, being it's creator as told in the beginning of the Silmarillion. I was just wondering what Juliet meant by that statement.

As Aratrea said, Tolkien insisted that he wasn't writing an allegory or even what C.S. Lewis called a "supposal." So I think any correlations drawn between LOTR and Christianity are subjective. He wasn't even intending to write a "Christian" story with purposefully placed underlying themes, which is evidenced by reading his preface to the 2nd edition (I think ). Any parallels that are present seeped into his writing of their own accord, I think, because his faith was intrinsic in his life so as to not help but shine through.

In terms of representations, I've heard plenty. Some of them Tolkien flat out debunked, but others are more ambiguous.

Frodo as a picture of Christ - This works to some extent because the Ring could be correlated to the burden of sin Christ bore, and also because it was Frodo's task to save the world. Anything beyond that doesn't hold much water in my opinion.

Gandalf as a picture of Christ - This one makes sense. He battled the Balrog and fell into darkness, was killed, and then resurrected. But Tolkien specifically said Gandalf was a sort of archangel incarnate in the world of Middle-earth.

God anywhere - This one doesn't apply to LOTR, because it never showed up, but in other writings of Tolkien, there was a supreme Diety, God, named Iluvatar, who created the world. So in that sense, Middle-earth (not directly LOTR) had a represnetation of God. But at the same time, Tolkien also had lesser gods, more based on the Greek pantheon if I'm not mistaken. So he was combining Greek mythology with Chrisitian mythology.

Aragorn and Sam as types of Christ - Aragorn works better, since he's a king coming to reclaim the throne and as Aratrea said, (figuratively) passed through the gates of death when entering the Dimholt before riding on to victory. Sam not so much.

The elves - I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that the elves were Tolkien's representation of humans perfected, but I could be wrong.

As Aratrea said, Tolkien insisted that he wasn't writing an allegory or even what C.S. Lewis called a "supposal." So I think any correlations drawn between LOTR and Christianity are subjective. He wasn't even intending to write a "Christian" story with purposefully placed underlying themes, which is evidenced by reading his preface to the 2nd edition (I think ). Any parallels that are present seeped into his writing of their own accord, I think, because his faith was intrinsic in his life so as to not help but shine through.

There is so much more to this mystery than that.

It appears from the Silmarillion, Hobbit and the LOTR that Tolkien had borrowed the Biblical mythology. He intended the myth. He filled in the history gaps because the Bible is not mainly a history.

Common belief is Tolkien focusd on the history of the angels as he himself associated them to the Eldar.

Long story short, this is how I heard it:
Illuvatar = God the Creator
Valar = the fruit of the Spirit; characteristic of God
Maiar = lesser fruit

Eldar = pure angelic race
Elves = earthly angelic race

Dwarves = Abraham's son Ismael's line
Men = God's chosen People Isaac's line

Hobbits = baby Christians (or country churches)

Ring Wraiths = evil spirits of sinful men

The cursed Dead = holy people who live only to fulfill their vow (extremely powerful witnesses)

The connections run deeper than most know.

I agree with Tarin:


What I see here is that you if you go looking for patterns where there are none and refuse to "there are none" for an answer, you'll eventually find something.

Remember that the Dead linger in the Paths of the Dead, waiting for Aragorn, because they broke their oath thousands of years earlier.