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Youngish female heir in charge?
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Author:  Lady Sparks [ July 26th, 2017, 3:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Youngish female heir in charge?

So in my WIP, I need the Lord/Baron/Vassal of the area to not be around. I was thinking I'd like for him to leave his 21-yr-old 2nd female heir in charge (1st heir, her twin brother is away) while he takes the majority of his guard to assist the neighboring kingdom who has sent for urgent help. There is little potential for danger (though of course, something unexpected will happen to test the mettle of this heir). This is a fantasy world so it doesn't have to follow any known rules - just be somewhat realistic. Does that sound reasonable?

Author:  kingjon [ July 26th, 2017, 4:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Youngish female heir in charge?

(First, a point of order:

Lady Sparks wrote:
the Lord/Baron/Vassal of the area


"One of these things is not like the others." A "vassal" is a sworn follower of a lord. He or she may be a nobleman, or even royalty, himself or herself, but "vassal" means "feudal subordinate," not "ruler." I suspect you meant "suzerain" or "sovereign," i.e. someone who has vassals.)

Anyway.

As with so many things, "it depends."

  • How well is she liked (by the nobility and/or by the people)?
  • What kind of education has she had (and do the nobility and the people know she's had)? (I don't mean classes, necessarily; remember the chapter in Prince Caspian about Caspian's upbringing.)
  • Has she been present in, or better yet had a voice in, her father's councils or court? (If the answer is "regularly," I think she's more likely to be accepted than if it was "once, when she was presented five years ago" :))
  • Is there strong precedent for women as regents, castellans, or rulers in that area of your world?
  • How competent is she, actually? (Elizabeth I got the throne of England largely because the other likely claimants were foreign and Catholic, but she kept it because she was a really strong and competent ruler, in addition to various other factors. Conversely, in the British Regency, if the Prince Regent had been a Princess Regent instead and had still been as corrupt a dissipated spendthrift as my reading suggests he was, I suspect Parliament would have deposed George III rather than let such a Princess rule as Regent.) (Or, to put it another way, the country's nobles and subjects would be more willing to get on the bandwagon of a successful regent who happens to be a woman than to support a failure whose failure is compounded by the female-descent weakness of her claim.)
  • Is she betrothed or promised to any noble or foreign ruler? The nobility or the people might strongly object to someone who "will be" influenced by either one faction among the local nobility or, worse, a foreign power. (This would be less of an issue if the foreign ruler was a long-standing firm ally, or if the local noble was famous for honesty.)

To sum up: this can be made to work easily enough if you're willing to adjust your worldbuilding as needed. As a matter of history it'd be somewhat dubious (though, also, by the late 18th century a 21-year-old woman wouldn't be seen as "youngish," but rather quite old to be still unmarried ...). But this being a different world, you can change things that affect that.

Author:  Reiyen [ July 26th, 2017, 9:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Youngish female heir in charge?

Kingjon's advice is, as usual, thorough.
A young female interim ruler is not a priori unacceptable. However, sexism being what it is, if she were left in charge, I do not doubt that someone would assume just because she's female that she's weaker than Lord/Baron, and try to take advantage.
But then you said there was little likelihood of trouble. As long as there is no reason to expect trouble even domestically then I think it's a reasonable action for the Lord/Baron to choose.

Author:  Lady Sparks [ July 27th, 2017, 12:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Youngish female heir in charge?

Actually, I mean somewhat like "a holder of land by feudal tenure on conditions of homage and allegiance." He's the boss but he still answers to someone else - kinda. Think Archenland vs Narnia - separate country but still part of the empire. But also like the Steward of Gondor (he answers to the high king but there is no high king at the moment so he's 100% in charge until someone fills the spot).
I've been calling him the ruler (and his children prince/princess) in my WIP but this has confused the two beta's who have reviewed my outline/synopsis.

  • Also like Archenland, it's not a very large country and on the rustic side.
  • She is adored by all in the "she's the sweetest, kindest girl and we're proud to call her our princess" kind of way, but I doubt anyone's ever thought of her as being more. Since her twin brother is heir and has been groomed/trained all his life (and really excelled at it), she's always been somewhat overshadowed/overlooked even though she's been tutored equally and sat along in all the council meetings and so on.
  • Originally I wanted her storyline to be a bit of a push-back against sexism in the nobility but I've thrown that out and want the focus to be about her finding her confidence (internal growth) rather than trying to prove herself to external factions. She's going to accept the responsibility with some trepidation and reassurance that her brother's right-hand man (age 23) will be there for support/guidance.
  • Not betrothed or married yet - she's been content and unmotivated in that department. (Daddy's not in any hurry for his baby to leave the nest either.) Mr. Right-Hand-Man's been quietly in love with her a few years and this'll be a good opportunity to get her to finally notice him, too. ;)
  • They live on a hidden island and are cut off from the rest of the world. There's a bordering kingdom to the south (their allies) and probably one or two kingdoms far out east. Things tend to be extremely peaceful except for a incident 18 years ago that almost sparked war with the indigenous people of the forest. Now they just avoid each other.

All of this is side-plot too, btw. The main story will be the main character and the heir/brother off on their adventure. (Which is what will spark the unexpected trouble.)

Author:  Rachel Newhouse [ July 27th, 2017, 12:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Youngish female heir in charge?

I agree with the others. There is no rule that says she can't, and there are instances in history where women did take charge. But as Reiyen pointed out, they usually had to compensate in some way to overcome prejudice and maintain the throne. However, such compensation is good character development, and would add a nice touch to the story.

It's also worth noting how much power your ruler has. If he's mostly a figurehead and the country is run by a council, or there's an official who's doing most of the day-to-day ordering, this might not be as much of an issue.

Author:  kingjon [ July 27th, 2017, 4:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Youngish female heir in charge?

Lady Sparks wrote:
Actually, I mean somewhat like "a holder of land by feudal tenure on conditions of homage and allegiance." He's the boss but he still answers to someone else - kinda.

OK, you're using the term correctly---good! :) (I see it used wrong so often ... :))

Lady Sparks wrote:
  • Also like Archenland, it's not a very large country and on the rustic side.
  • She is adored by all in the "she's the sweetest, kindest girl and we're proud to call her our princess" kind of way, but I doubt anyone's ever thought of her as being more. Since her twin brother is heir and has been groomed/trained all his life (and really excelled at it), she's always been somewhat overshadowed/overlooked even though she's been tutored equally and sat along in all the council meetings and so on.

Given that, while people's first instinct might be to assume she wasn't a suitable regent, there's no reason to think she isn't, so acceptance seems more likely.

Lady Sparks wrote:
  • She's going to accept the responsibility with some trepidation and reassurance that her brother's right-hand man (age 23) will be there for support/guidance.

That kind of humility could backfire, but in a small country where she's popularly loved I think it would also help acceptance of her as regent. And if "Mr. Right-Hand-Man" is (popularly) known to have leadership experience, his support helps too.
Lady Sparks wrote:
  • Not betrothed or married yet - she's been content and unmotivated in that department. (Daddy's not in any hurry for his baby to leave the nest either.) Mr. Right-Hand-Man's been quietly in love with her a few years and this'll be a good opportunity to get her to finally notice him, too. ;)

OK, so no known-future-matrimonial entanglements to compromise legitimacy. :)

To sum up: with what you've said so far, I think she has a better chance than most in her position in medieval Europe would have.

Author:  Domici [ July 27th, 2017, 5:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Youngish female heir in charge?

Doable and potentially fun since many men would chafe at it. How they respond will speak of the lord and his children.

Of course, a few noble heads adorning the gatehouse parapet could adjust attitudes nicely...

Author:  Lady Sparks [ July 28th, 2017, 10:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Youngish female heir in charge?

Domici wrote:
Of course, a few noble heads adorning the gatehouse parapet could adjust attitudes nicely...


:0 Lady Camellia would be shocked at the suggestion. Though Sir Davion might be tempted to threaten such out of her hearing. ;)

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