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 Post subject: Brainstorming help - why would an entire people move/hide?
PostPosted: July 1st, 2016, 11:12 pm 
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So in my fantasy work, the main character's people are winged with unique abilities (ability to focus their vision and hearing to see/hear things quite a distance away, commands they can choose to "compel" on humans, an intense presence/loyalty they infuse into their homeland and a special race of humans (the Venner) from there). Their wings are dragon-like and fold up pretty tightly against their backs.

A few years before my main character's birth, they suddenly abandoned their city/land, left the kingdom in the hands of the Venner (along with a command forbidding them from crossing the mountain to explore the abandoned city) flew across the ocean to a new land and settled down. They conceal their wings under loose, flowing clothing and live blended in with the humans. Everything about their past is taboo, even to their own children. Oh, and whatever they did brought a grudge against them from the Brownies (Nisse), who live wild in the woods and mountains. My main character, Ember, chafes under their restrictive society, secretly learns to fly, and sets out to find everything out for herself.

My big problem, that is preventing me from progressing very far with my writing is, I don't know what happened! I have the entire story plotted except the final arc where they discover the big secret and have the big climactic showdown. I do know my main character is going to grow from impulsive and irresponsible to someone who not only thinks through their actions, but takes responsibility for them. And I want her journey to be oppositely reflected in her people's decision to do whatever that led to them leaving and then hiding from it.

The big connected questions are:
Why would a people abandon their entire homeland?
Why would a people abandon their cultural identity and hide their abilities?
What could cause both??

So I made a list of possible reasons.
My thoughts for the first are:
a) They created a big baddy monster or some such (dragon experimentation? Dragon/Brownie hybrids?)
b) Tower of Babel type situation - they got full of themselves and did something (but what?) and God brought the smackdown
c) Disease - caused some kind of plague
d) Diseased land - somehow damaged the land/trees/water on their side of the mountain
e)...???

and as for hiding who they are:
a) Hiding from retribution (but no one knows what they did except maybe the Nisse and they'd sooner kill Ember than talk to her about it)
b) Shame - this could tie in with the Babel thing - "we're not worthy of our wings and chosen-one status"
c) Embarrassment - dislike being what they are
d) Desire to be something else
e) ...???

I really don't care for the idea of genetic experimenting or making a monster or whatever. It starts getting into scifi territory and is just kinda icky plus then I have to figure out logistics of how they kept it contained and why they left. But I do slightly like the idea of mutant hybrids involving the Brownies (Nisse) - maybe a whole batch of people who were abandoned in the city, youngsters, who Ember would have to step in to help at the end? But it feels cliche, too.

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Last edited by Lady Sparks on July 8th, 2016, 8:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Brainstorming help - why would an entire people move/hid
PostPosted: July 2nd, 2016, 6:34 pm 
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My first thought for a reason to move is a famine or climactic shift (volcanic eruption upwind of them, rising sea levels, that sort of thing) that makes their choice "eat or starve."

A possible reason for them to hide themselves and their differences among the natives of the land they move to is if they had some limited previous dealings with those people (or some people that they think are the same) a long time ago and were persecuted or worse.

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 Post subject: Re: Brainstorming help - why would an entire people move/hid
PostPosted: July 5th, 2016, 10:43 pm 
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I was mulling over something along those lines - like what if they had done something that decimated the land leaving them no choice to leave. But I don't know...

Then I had a conversation with my sister earlier tonight - she suggested what if they did something that inadvertently caused everyone under a certain age to die? All their own people, the Nisse, even the animals/dragons. Something that had long-term ramifications on the land their side of the mountains (almost like nuclear fallout). This is something that would force them to leave and be so shameful and sorrowful that they would want to blot it from their memory/history. It also adds possibility for tension - 20 years later, have the effects dissipated or is Ember's adventure unknowingly putting her life in danger? I'm really liking this idea- but is it cliche?

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 Post subject: Re: Brainstorming help - why would an entire people move/hid
PostPosted: July 8th, 2016, 4:06 am 
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Lady Sparks wrote:
Why would a people abandon their entire homeland?
Why would a people abandon their cultural identity and hide their abilities?
What could cause both??

If I heard of people living that way, I would imagine that they are hiding from an enemy that wants to destroy them. It could be an enemy that they created, or one that they fought in the past and lost against, or perhaps another kind.

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 Post subject: Re: Brainstorming help - why would an entire people move/hid
PostPosted: July 8th, 2016, 8:59 am 
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Jonathan Garner wrote:

If I heard of people living that way, I would imagine that they are hiding from an enemy that wants to destroy them. It could be an enemy that they created, or one that they fought in the past and lost against, or perhaps another kind.


That was one of my first thoughts, too. But that's why I've been resistant to that idea. I've always heard when you are stuck, to write a list of options and go with one of the last ideas - that those are inevitably going to be the least cliche?

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 Post subject: Re: Brainstorming help - why would an entire people move/hid
PostPosted: July 8th, 2016, 2:01 pm 
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Two questions! 1) How large of a group are they? What's the population of the civilization they're hiding among? 2) What are their highest cultural values?

My instinct is that rather than create a truly physical enemy, activating a curse on their entire people and their descendants would be more effective. There are a lot of options with that. The curse could even be consequences if they DON'T abandon their culture. Obviously, some people would have stayed in defiance, and some in hiding who made mistakes or couldn't bear it, would receive the consequences.

That possibility creates a second problem, though: the source of such a curse/how it was activated.

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 Post subject: Re: Brainstorming help - why would an entire people move/hid
PostPosted: July 11th, 2016, 7:39 pm 
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Here's what I'm thinking:
There were around 2000 of them initially, roughly 450 under 18. But they ruled over a population of 15,000 normal folk. Only around 1500 would make the migration if I kill off all the non-adults. They would live spread-out in around 13 villages that had a pre-migration population of about 10,000...

As for core values - their God-ordained purpose is to look out for and over the land, creatures and people in their country. But they got a bit arrogant and somehow caused the event that killed every animal and child under 20ish. If it poisoned the land and they couldn't think how to cure it, they'd have no choice but to leave. And I'm thinking a deep sorrow and shame could cause them to want to hide what happened. Plus a feeling of unworthiness or failure for what they had done? And moving to a nonmagical land would make them need to hide their abilities and blend in.

Sound feasible?

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 Post subject: Re: Brainstorming help - why would an entire people move/hid
PostPosted: July 11th, 2016, 10:29 pm 
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That sounds fairly feasible, though it also seems likely that at some point they would slowly start coming to terms with who they are and not hide it as much. Perhaps some leaders among them could discourage this ruthlessly, with the secret (and evil) motive of wanting to cover up their attempts to reclaim the weapon or other power that caused the original dark event.

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 Post subject: Re: Brainstorming help - why would an entire people move/hid
PostPosted: July 12th, 2016, 8:51 pm 
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I've been mulling over someone just like that. The story takes place about 18 years after the event so the timing sounds good there, too. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Brainstorming help - why would an entire people move/hid
PostPosted: January 25th, 2017, 3:26 pm 
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So I've been working on this story a bit more and ran over my rough outline with a writer friend. She asked if I had considered setting it in the modern world, rather than a fantasy world... And I can't decide what I think of that idea. Part of me prefers the freedom of a 100% fictional Earth-like world where I make the rules. But that's partly taking the easy way out and books that take place in "worlds" hidden within our own can be a lot of fun.

If I do that, then I have to figure out where to hide this magical land (Bermuda Triangle?) and how to explain my winged people's sudden appearance and being able to live in the US or wherever (have them be a reclusive group similar to the Hutterites, Amish, etc.?).

But the biggest thing is my winged people are just something I made up. I have dragons and my own version of Brownies but the main people group don't really fit a preconceived mythical creature. If I change the setting to more contemporary/modern, I feel I'll need to at least somewhat associate them with a known. I was leaning toward a spin on Nephilim but I don't know...

So two related questions:
Contemporary fantasy vs High Fantasy? Pros/cons? How should I decide?
Nephilim? Or is that overdone lately? (I do not want them to be fairy or anything like that...)

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 Post subject: Re: Brainstorming help - why would an entire people move/hid
PostPosted: January 25th, 2017, 10:47 pm 
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The question to ask yourself is: Which suits the core story best?

Here's a trick my mentor taught me: Genre is superficial. It is set dressing, one of many mediums with which to tell your story. Your core story can be told in any medium, in any genre, and with any number of combinations of other elements. So the ability to separate your core story from genre is extremely important in understanding what your story is truly about.

In your case, I would hone in on your core story. Your core story isn't about a hidden group of people--it's deeper than that. It's about one outcast soul trying to find acceptance, or whatever your main plot is. (I just made that last bit up by way of example. :rofl:) So figure out what that is, and what is truly important about that story. Then figure out which genre serves that core story best.

As someone who has switched genres of her stories before (sometimes during the final stages of editing, ha!), I find it helpful to imagine how the story would play out in another genre. Write up a brief plot synopsis. What are the differences? What are the pros and cons? Are there characters whose backstory makes more sense in one genre or another? Are there elements of the real world that would tie in well to your story? Are there things that would just be stretching the suspicion of disbelief too far? Which feels more natural? Which excites you more?

The best genre will "feel" right and will mold to the story. If it feels like you're forcing it, reconsider.

I think contemporary fantasy is a bit trendy right now, what with all the vampire fiction and urban dragons and whatnot, which could be good or bad. Another idea is to imagine how the cover design would look for your novel. If it's contemporary fantasy, what kind of picture would you put on it? High fantasy? Which sells the story better?

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 Post subject: Re: Brainstorming help - why would an entire people move/hid
PostPosted: January 26th, 2017, 2:20 pm 
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Thanks. That's really fantastic advice. I'm going to have to do some real deep analysis and thinking! :salute:

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 Post subject: Re: Brainstorming help - why would an entire people move/hid
PostPosted: February 8th, 2017, 12:03 pm 
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My first guess for why your people all shipped out and handed over rulership to the Venner was because they had done something terribly shameful, and were exiling themselves to prevent further consequences.

I think this could go in a good parallel with KatherineROID (haven't talked in some time! Nice to see you around!) idea of a curse.

In League of Legends lore, Varus was the archer appointed to guard a pit of corruption. When his village was sacked, he drew all the corruption into himself, so that he could wreak havoc on the invaders. Now he's as evil as they were (or some such story). Perhaps your people had or made such a well, and realized that if anyone ever tapped into it, there would be problems. So they forced themselves to all leave, so no one could ever give in to temptation, and commanded the Venner not to go there either. Now no one will unearth that pit of problems.

Just some story ideas, probably much too late.

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 Post subject: Re: Brainstorming help - why would an entire people move/hid
PostPosted: February 8th, 2017, 4:16 pm 
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Thanks for the input! Things are much more fleshed out now but I am still figuring out some aspects so all brainstorming ideas help me flesh things out a bit. I recently had some more thoughts tying things in a bit more.

So far, I've decided they accidentally set off a cataclysmic event which killed everyone under 20 on their side of the mountain. Not only their own people, but all animals/dragons and the young Nisse (my version of Brownie-like creatures). Unfortunately, it wasn't a one-time event but something that poisoned the land. So they had no choice but to abandon the city and leave that side of the mountain if they wanted to have children. But they're deeply ashamed of what happened and don't want to reveal it to the Venner (or their own children). Rather than a curse causing the event, I'm thinking they have also forgotten a covenant with God (haven't decided what or how yet - maybe as guardians of the land?) which has caused them to lose magical abilities that would have enabled them to heal the land, similarish to Samson's strength being tied to his hair but really to his obedience (though most of them are so ignorant of the covenant they don't even know they should be able to heal it). So the "curse" is that they can't fix it and are driven from their home.

The Nisse don't care that it was an accident - they declare war over the loss of their young. To prevent more death on all sides, the people decide to leave altogether. Every single one of them has to go as the Nisse would never back off otherwise. They forbid the Venner from crossing the mountain to protect their young but also, selfishly, to keep their secret.

My MC is young, impulsive, irresponsible per usual. She runs off to discover why her people left, dragging several young Venner along with her. This sets off a chain of events which eventually lead to her growing up a bit (facing the consequences of her reckless, thoughtless actions for one) but she also rediscovers the covenant and, with some help, is able to partially heal the land. (The Nisse have to call off their blood-feud as only more of her people, recommitted to the covenant, will be able to fully restore things.)

So now I'm mulling over the covenant, trying to decide how it was broken and how my MC Ember will keep it.

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