Holy Worlds Christian Forum :: View topic - Thinking About Role-Playing Games

*shrug* I just thought that D&D is a subject that members of a Christian fantasy-writing community might have engaged with before.

My friends and I have experimented some with the dice kind, but I prefer just doing it without dice to be a much more interesting and enjoyable way of doing it...

I currently GM a tabletop RPG based on The Lord of the Rings with my 3 younger brothers. (It's based on MERP and MEAG)

So, first off, has anyone ever played any RPGs of the tabletop variety?

Maybe we should try starting a Skype game, since so many of us can't find players in real life.

I second the motion!

OK, so we've got our various knowledge of RPGs down.

Next question: Back in the 80's, there was a wild Satanic panic. D&D was one of the targets, it would turn you into a Satanist, make you murder people, and generally go insane. All of those are too extreme to be true except in very exceptional circumstances.
But does playing a wizard tempt you into trying out the occult?

PS: As the most infamous example of what D&D was charged with, read the comic by Jack Chick, Dark Dungeons.

Next question: Back in the 80's, there was a wild Satanic panic. D&D was one of the targets, it would turn you into a Satanist, make you murder people, and generally go insane. All of those are too extreme to be true except in very exceptional circumstances.
But does playing a wizard tempt you into trying out the occult?

I'm going to see if my parents are cool with me helping start it, since it would mean video chatting with people I've never met.

You don't have to play over audio or video chat (or even in real time!)

Tip of the day: For managing D&D 3.5 edition or Pathfinder characters, PCGen is (in my opinion) a far better tool than a physical character sheet (though you can print one of those) or an Excel spreadsheet.

kingjon wrote:

You don't have to play over audio or video chat (or even in real time!)

I've played via forums before, but never finished a game. Eventually it starts feeling more like work (typing up those long posts) than play.
Which may just mean that I'm lazy

Or come to think of it, maybe I focused too much on role-playing everything, instead of roll-playing stuff when I wasn't feeling it.

But I'm definitely willing try out my playing abilities if you'll GM

(I'd recommend finding a module to use, instead of flunking life due to game-prep)

What operating system do you use? Linux?

Would Google+ work? (which is what I actually meant, since you can't do a group chat in Skype without paying)

So there's a discussion of having a game of D&D over the internet...? is that what I'm understanding here?

(Because school's out for me in another month and I'd be interested then although I do not have any rulebooks or knowledge of how to play)

Actually when I researched some rpg's tonight I ran across this for playing online!

http://roll20.net/.

My comic shop has a lot of Pathfinder... I will check the library though. Don't have money to buy things at the moment.

What do you have to have on hand to start playing a tabletop game usually?

I'd be open to anything easy to learn for n00bs. Either a stand-alone game or a spin-off of pre-existing intellectual property.

I'm sure I can find one of the books someplace - I have an extensive interlibrary loan system - I just have to pay my fines first... Which book should I be looking for? (Amazon or Goodreads link?) You mentioned rulebooks and player handbooks...?

I want to buy dice though. My comic shop has a little box of them and they're PRETTY.

Ah... even less well-known than what I was thinking, lol.

Speaking of less-well-known, I did a google search for free tabletop RPGs and I found this page! http://www.homebrew.net/games/ Possibly useful though I'll look into Pathfinder/D&D first.

If I'm going to pick one and go with it would you suggest D&D or Pathfinder? Particularly if we're going to do some playing over the 'net... like I said I don't have a local DM. (Well. I'm sure there's one at the comic shop but every time I go in and they're actually playing a tabletop game it's been going for hours and I can't join. They're much less friendly to newbies in tabletops than card games around there. =P)

Once I get my hands on the books to read through, and we set up a game, I'll go buy some dice. (No point in buying dice if I don't have anyone to play with still.) Thanks for the explanation of what I'll need!

Is there a minimum number of players needed?

Author:	Kelcin [ March 8th, 2013, 9:48 am ]
Post subject:	Thinking About Role-Playing Games
I've noticed in the last thread mentioning role-playing games (the ones you play at a table, not LOTRO or Diablo), Scholarly articles--Christian response to D&D Cephron voiced this frustration: Cephron wrote: shrug I just thought that D&D is a subject that members of a Christian fantasy-writing community might have engaged with before. I think we should engage with RPGs. Unless we actually don't have anyone that's played them or knows anything about them. So, first off, has anyone ever played any RPGs of the tabletop variety? Since I asked, I'll go first. I've only played online on forums, Dungeon Mastering a very short game of D&D 4E, playing in a game of HolyLands RPG, which is meant as a Christian alternative to D&D. Along with various free-form forum role-plays. But I'm dying to play in real life My English Professor was a big D&D player back when he was young, which I found out by deciding to write my research paper about the benefits of role-playing games. PS, our Last RPG Thread.

Author:	The Bard [ March 8th, 2013, 11:51 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Thinking About Role-Playing Games
I currently GM a tabletop RPG based on The Lord of the Rings with my 3 younger brothers. (It's based on MERP and MEAG) I've played a wide variety of different tabletop rpgs. I have looked into D&D. The systems for it are very well made and there is a lot of stuff about so it's easier to run than most. I dislike the D&D aspect of magic which involves demons and "gods."

Author:	Melody Kondrael [ March 8th, 2013, 10:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Thinking About Role-Playing Games
I've always wanted to play but have no one to play with... my comic shop focuses more on Magic the Gathering and it just looked too complicated for me. =P

Author:	Sir Iarrthoir Criost [ March 9th, 2013, 11:19 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Thinking About Role-Playing Games
Aye, I've wanted to play but I have no one either.

Author:	Aratrea [ March 9th, 2013, 11:35 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Thinking About Role-Playing Games
I play role-playing games with my friends, but only the more informal non-dice kind, kind of like the kind that's on forums. My friends and I have experimented some with the dice kind, but I prefer just doing it without dice to be a much more interesting and enjoyable way of doing it...

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Author:	The Bard [ March 9th, 2013, 11:46 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Thinking About Role-Playing Games
Doing it with dice adds in a more random and chaotic factor which lets the story go in different and unexpected ways. That's probably why that is the most popular form of RPG and also why I prefer it with dice. (Though it can get very complicated at times. )

Author:	Kelcin [ March 11th, 2013, 4:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Thinking About Role-Playing Games
Aratrea wrote: My friends and I have experimented some with the dice kind, but I prefer just doing it without dice to be a much more interesting and enjoyable way of doing it... Dice help to put the Game in Role-playing Games. Without them, you're edging more towards interactive storytelling (which isn't bad, just different). Do you have a GM/DM/Narrator in your free-forms? Yehoshua Mimetes wrote: I currently GM a tabletop RPG based on The Lord of the Rings with my 3 younger brothers. (It's based on MERP and MEAG) Sounds fantastic! I've experienced MEAG via some old LOTR gamebooks, and the system is beautiful. Is your game set in Middle-Earth? Maybe we should try starting a Skype game, since so many of us can't find players in real life.

Author:	Varon [ March 11th, 2013, 7:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Thinking About Role-Playing Games
I've not played any, but I picked up the beginner's game version of the new Star Wars RPG, and I just need a time for me and my friends to get together so we can play it.

Author:	kingjon [ March 12th, 2013, 11:13 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Thinking About Role-Playing Games
Kelcin wrote: So, first off, has anyone ever played any RPGs of the tabletop variety? I played a bit of D&D in high school (3rd Edition) and my senior year of college (3.5th edition). And I've done a fair amount of reading of source books, fan websites, and the like (for many different systems) as "research" for the strategy game I'm developing.

Author:	Sir Iarrthoir Criost [ March 13th, 2013, 4:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Thinking About Role-Playing Games
Kelcin wrote: Maybe we should try starting a Skype game, since so many of us can't find players in real life. I second the motion!

Author:	Kelcin [ March 15th, 2013, 9:37 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Thinking About Role-Playing Games
OK, so we've got our various knowledge of RPGs down. Next question: Back in the 80's, there was a wild Satanic panic. D&D was one of the targets, it would turn you into a Satanist, make you murder people, and generally go insane. All of those are too extreme to be true except in very exceptional circumstances. But does playing a wizard tempt you into trying out the occult? PS: As the most infamous example of what D&D was charged with, read the comic by Jack Chick, Dark Dungeons. Golthem wrote: I second the motion! I'm going to see if my parents are cool with me helping start it, since it would mean video chatting with people I've never met.

Author:	Varon [ March 15th, 2013, 12:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Thinking About Role-Playing Games
Kelcin wrote: OK, so we've got our various knowledge of RPGs down. Next question: Back in the 80's, there was a wild Satanic panic. D&D was one of the targets, it would turn you into a Satanist, make you murder people, and generally go insane. All of those are too extreme to be true except in very exceptional circumstances. But does playing a wizard tempt you into trying out the occult? PS: As the most infamous example of what D&D was charged with, read the comic by Jack Chick, Dark Dungeons. The ludicrousness of some Christians still surprises me, and more so as I've found more and more crazy, unScriptural belief and paranoia. I've never played D&D, but I've read Harry Potter (Which of course, is far more likely to tempt people to the occult. Oops. It appears I've dropped some sarcasm.) and played some characters on LOTRO with magic abilities. I've even read Lovecraft, which I think includes some of the most factually correct presentations of occult ritual that I've ever read. I've never been tempted to try out the occult, possibly because wizards always make me think of Gandalf.

Author:	kingjon [ March 15th, 2013, 9:46 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Thinking About Role-Playing Games
Kelcin wrote: Next question: Back in the 80's, there was a wild Satanic panic. D&D was one of the targets, it would turn you into a Satanist, make you murder people, and generally go insane. All of those are too extreme to be true except in very exceptional circumstances. But does playing a wizard tempt you into trying out the occult? Note that in response to that backlash, TSR (or whoever published the game back then) substantially revised its model of the celestial and infernal hierarchies to remove the correspondence with any real-world mythological model, among other changes to make it less objectionable. Kelcin wrote: I'm going to see if my parents are cool with me helping start it, since it would mean video chatting with people I've never met. You don't have to play over audio or video chat (or even in real time!); my first exposure to the game was in a BBS my parents belonged to, and even now I'm following a campaign that's running on someone's blog. You could do it in one of the HW chat rooms (though that'd be something of an inconvenience to others trying to use it, to say the least, so I wouldn't recommend it ...), in the "character development" "role-playing" subforum, or any number of other synchronous or asynchronous solutions. (I might be interested in a campaign ... and could even try my hand at DMing, though I really don't have the time to do that justice .. but I don't have a Skype account, my usual operating system can't run it, and I'm not sure I could even get my laptop's built-in webcam to work. Tip of the day: For managing D&D 3.5 edition or Pathfinder characters, PCGen is (in my opinion) a far better tool than a physical character sheet (though you can print one of those) or an Excel spreadsheet.

Author:	Kelcin [ March 19th, 2013, 11:26 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Thinking About Role-Playing Games
Let me play Devil's Advocate. Harry & Cthulhu didn't convert you. But what about more impressionable people more accepting of occult practices. Like having gay characters on TV comedy shows, they subtly became/become acceptable in our culture, paving the way for more extreme forms. (by impressionable people, I mean the middle-schoolers that curse worse than rowdy college kids, due to exposure to Call of Duty & Friends heavy swearing) kingjon wrote: You don't have to play over audio or video chat (or even in real time!) I've played via forums before, but never finished a game. Eventually it starts feeling more like work (typing up those long posts) than play. Which may just mean that I'm lazy Or come to think of it, maybe I focused too much on role-playing everything, instead of roll-playing stuff when I wasn't feeling it. But I'm definitely willing try out my playing abilities if you'll GM (I'd recommend finding a module to use, instead of flunking life due to game-prep) What operating system do you use? Linux? Would Google+ work? (which is what I actually meant, since you can't do a group chat in Skype without paying) kingjon wrote: Tip of the day: For managing D&D 3.5 edition or Pathfinder characters, PCGen is (in my opinion) a far better tool than a physical character sheet (though you can print one of those) or an Excel spreadsheet. My GM in a Facebook game used PCGen D&D 3.5 on a magic-less world nearly completely covered by water.

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Author:	kingjon [ March 20th, 2013, 11:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Thinking About Role-Playing Games
Kelcin wrote: kingjon wrote: You don't have to play over audio or video chat (or even in real time!) I've played via forums before, but never finished a game. Eventually it starts feeling more like work (typing up those long posts) than play. Which may just mean that I'm lazy Or come to think of it, maybe I focused too much on role-playing everything, instead of roll-playing stuff when I wasn't feeling it. Even with strong role-playing rather than roll-playing (which is an important distinction---one of the powerful and thus dangerous things about role-playing games, which the "scare" of decades past perhaps overstated but was wise to warn about, is that ideally you "become" your character in the same way that a method actor "becomes" the character he's playing in a movie or on the stage), the only person who'd usually be writing long posts would be the GM. Frequent posts adding up to quite a length of text, yes, but players wouldn't usually write long posts any more than they'd give speeches when playing around a table. (Though that has happened in one online game I follow; one of the players is playing a priest---this is first edition AD&D---and had the chance to perform the marriage of two influential NPCs.) Kelcin wrote: But I'm definitely willing try out my playing abilities if you'll GM (Tangential aside: I'm developing a strategy game that uses RPG-inspired mechanics and ideas for managing workers and such, and currently running a---quite-slow-moving---campaign of it by email, which could use more players; I keep meaning to make a thread about it ... PM or email me if interested.) Kelcin wrote: (I'd recommend finding a module to use, instead of flunking life due to game-prep) Even so, many modules are designed for roll-playing, puzzles with set solutions (instead of allowing multiple solutions), etc. And either they're designed to fit together into one overarching story (like Pathfinder's Adventure Paths ... not that I'm that familiar with them), which means that I'd have to remember to adjust later things to fit with the changes I (inevitably) made earlier, or they're designed as "generic" one-offs which I'd have to tweak to fit together and into whatever long-term plot I had in mind. One of the (many) project ideas I have up on my (metaphorical) shelf is to make a tabletop RPG based on the setting I'm developing for my fantasy stories. I might even be able to, for a campaign, be able to kludge standard D&D or Pathfinder content into describing the setting. Kelcin wrote: What operating system do you use? Linux? Yes ... Gentoo, with the "hardened" kernel and toolchain (which is what renders Skype incompatible). Kelcin wrote: Would Google+ work? (which is what I actually meant, since you can't do a group chat in Skype without paying) No idea; I have a webcam built into this laptop, but I'm not even sure what drivers it's supposed to need, or what software I need to configure it properly. Which, for the most part, suits me fine---I much prefer text-based formats to talking on the phone, so I don't mind not being able to voice-chat or video-chat, usually. Especially since I like to be able to look back over the log of what's been said.

Author:	Melody Kondrael [ April 19th, 2013, 11:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Thinking About Role-Playing Games
So there's a discussion of having a game of D&D over the internet...? is that what I'm understanding here? (Because school's out for me in another month and I'd be interested then although I do not have any rulebooks or knowledge of how to play) Also, speaking of RPG's in general, I do play LOTRO and would love to play with other HW'ers....

Author:	kingjon [ April 20th, 2013, 12:44 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Thinking About Role-Playing Games
Melody Kondrael wrote: So there's a discussion of having a game of D&D over the internet...? is that what I'm understanding here? A mostly-theoretical discussion, at least on my part, but yes. (And not D&D specifically; I've mentioned Pathfinder as an alternative, and I know there are other less-well-known tabletop RPGs ...) Melody Kondrael wrote: (Because school's out for me in another month and I'd be interested then although I do not have any rulebooks or knowledge of how to play) My first exposure to D&D was encountering the (3rd edition) rulebooks on the shelves of my local public library; I'd suggest looking in your local library first.

Author:	Melody Kondrael [ April 20th, 2013, 12:45 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Thinking About Role-Playing Games
Actually when I researched some rpg's tonight I ran across this for playing online! http://roll20.net/ Looks useful....

Author:	kingjon [ April 20th, 2013, 1:16 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Thinking About Role-Playing Games
Melody Kondrael wrote: Actually when I researched some rpg's tonight I ran across this for playing online! http://roll20.net/. Thanks for the link. Melody Kondrael wrote: My comic shop has a lot of Pathfinder... I will check the library though. Don't have money to buy things at the moment. Library, or inter-library loan ... In an in-person group meeting around an actual tabletop, the group only really needs one copy of the rulebooks, since they can be passed around the table, but that's not the case with a group "meeting" and playing via the Internet. And while for reference the SRDs, freely available online (D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder), are sufficient for most purposes, for learning the game they're nowhere near enough ... they're created by removing all the helpful explanations, "flavor text," etc., from the rulebooks so experienced players can refer to the "meat" of the rules more easily. Melody Kondrael wrote: What do you have to have on hand to start playing a tabletop game usually? All you need, as a player, is information (the SRD and your character sheet, for which I've already recommended PCGen), dice or some reasonable facsimile (there are countless free "dice-rolling" programs available, and any spreadsheet has a RAND() function that can be made to do the same if you know what you're doing), and the rest of the group. And probably something to take notes with, and any "creature comforts" (if you're meeting in person, food is traditional in some groups). For a first time you need to have access to the Player's Handbook (or equivalent) for whatever system---not necessarily in hard copy (many systems are available in PDF, if not in other ebook formats, and those are often easier to refer to if your group can stand the distraction of having computers open at the gaming table). Melody Kondrael wrote: I'd be open to anything easy to learn for n00bs. Either a stand-alone game or a spin-off of pre-existing intellectual property. When I said "other less-well-known tabletop RPGs," I wasn't even thinking of "licensed" games, but rather of things like Palladium, RuneQuest, Traveller, GURPS, et cetera.

Author:	kingjon [ April 20th, 2013, 11:41 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Thinking About Role-Playing Games
Melody Kondrael wrote: I'm sure I can find one of the books someplace - I have an extensive interlibrary loan system - I just have to pay my fines first... Which book should I be looking for? (Amazon or Goodreads link?) You mentioned rulebooks and player handbooks...? As a player, you'll need the Player's Handbook or equivalent for whichever system---this for D&D 3.5, this for D&D 4.0, this for Pathfinder (note that Paizo apparently only sells physical copies of the Pathfinder "Hero's Handbook" in this bundle with an introductory GM guide and a set of dice). Other "core" rulebooks ("Dungeon Master's Guide" or equivalent, "Monster Manual" or equivalent, and possibly others, depending on the system) are intended for the DM to refer to, and aren't something you need to be all that familiar with as a player, while there are many other rulebooks put out both by the original publisher of the system (Wizards of the Coast or Paizo) and by a dizzying array of other companies that your DM may or may not accept as authoritative (if so, possibly giving you more choices as a player ... but that's an "advanced topic" at this point). Among these are, I should also mention, sometimes "Player's Handbook"s for particular settings; if your game is set in one of those settings, and your DM says that book is authoritative for your game, it'd be worth trying to get a copy to at least read through. Melody Kondrael wrote: I want to buy dice though. My comic shop has a little box of them and they're PRETTY. Ah, yes. It's hard to have too many dice. For D&D, Pathfinder, or any other game in the "d20 System," at the bare minimum you need 20-sided, 12-sided, 8-sided, and 6-sided dice (the last being one you can get from pretty much any board game that uses dice)---the full set also includes (if I remember correctly---I saw that the Pathfinder "Beginner's Box" includes seven dice in total) a four-sided die and two 10-sided dice (two because together they're a "d100" or "d%"), but you can get a "1 in 4" or a "1 in 10" probability from a d20 in a pinch. Melody Kondrael wrote: Ah... even less well-known than what I was thinking, lol. Depends on the circles in which you move The same shelf in my library that had a full set of D&D 3rd edition core rulebooks also had a Palladium sourcebook (on medieval arms and armor, I think), which I actually happened on first. Melody Kondrael wrote: Speaking of less-well-known, I did a google search for free tabletop RPGs and I found this page! http://www.homebrew.net/games/ Possibly useful though I'll look into Pathfinder/D&D first. Yes, I happened on that too. Most groups will be running some version of D&D or Pathfinder (and Pathfinder is sort of "D&D version 3.75," since when Wizards of the Coast made 4th edition no longer "moddable" under the Open Gaming License and so "MMORPG-like" besides, Paizo took the OGL parts of 3.5 and revised and expanded them into what became Pathfinder), but when I'm talking about RPGs generally I like to make clear that D&D is not the be-all and end-all of RPGs. (I became aware of RuneQuest and some of the others, by the way, when I was scouring the web for source material for the strategy game I mentioned above last month.)

Author:	Melody Kondrael [ April 21st, 2013, 12:10 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Thinking About Role-Playing Games
If I'm going to pick one and go with it would you suggest D&D or Pathfinder? Particularly if we're going to do some playing over the 'net... like I said I don't have a local DM. (Well. I'm sure there's one at the comic shop but every time I go in and they're actually playing a tabletop game it's been going for hours and I can't join. They're much less friendly to newbies in tabletops than card games around there. =P) Once I get my hands on the books to read through, and we set up a game, I'll go buy some dice. (No point in buying dice if I don't have anyone to play with still.) Thanks for the explanation of what I'll need! Is there a minimum number of players needed?

Author:	kingjon [ April 23rd, 2013, 10:31 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Thinking About Role-Playing Games
Melody Kondrael wrote: If I'm going to pick one and go with it would you suggest D&D or Pathfinder? Particularly if we're going to do some playing over the 'net... like I said I don't have a local DM. (Well. I'm sure there's one at the comic shop but every time I go in and they're actually playing a tabletop game it's been going for hours and I can't join. They're much less friendly to newbies in tabletops than card games around there. =P) I've never actually played Pathfinder myself ... but I'd still recommend it over D&D at this point if you have to just pick one. The most basic stuff will transfer in any case, and Pathfinder is both OGL (Open Game License, which I mentioned in an earlier post in this thread, meaning there'll most likely be a richer third-party-content ecosystem for your group to draw on; 4th edition D&D isn't) and being actively developed and supported (unlike 3rd and 3.5th edition D&D). Melody Kondrael wrote: Once I get my hands on the books to read through, and we set up a game, I'll go buy some dice. (No point in buying dice if I don't have anyone to play with still.) Thanks for the explanation of what I'll need! For play over the Net you won't necessarily need physical dice, as I said, and with an in-person group you may be able to borrow some . It's better to have your own set, so as to "hold up the action" as little as possible, but you'll inevitably end up either borrowing or lending dice from time to time anyway. (At high levels attacks sometimes do on the order of a dozen "dice" of damage, for example.) Melody Kondrael wrote: Is there a minimum number of players needed? Yes and no. Most "modules" are designed for parties of at least 3 or 4 player characters, and while it's possible to get through with fewer players than that, it'd be quite difficult for a beginner. But there is precedent for one-on-one sessions with a DM (the 3rd edition Dungeon Master's Guide talks briefly about that, giving the example of a quest for a paladin to get the special mount he gets as a class feature at about 4th level), and I think Pathfinder may even have a version for "solo play" (one player without a DM).