How about... Blue Seas of Hope or Heart of Hope?

hm... It's just... On the Wings of Hope sounds cliche. Or at least to me. Let's think here... what is the story like? Is there a word like hope, but better? Oh! Reverie sounds awesome! It's definition is 'day dream'. Could that make a more original title?

Okay, it doesn't have to be original at all, just saying. Mine is anything but original. It's called Peacekeeper's Essence, and we all know that 'keeper' has been used for sooo long, it's not funny. So feel free to use this or just brush it off (but yea, I like On the Wings of Hope out of the other options).

And it might sound good as just On Wings of Hope.

So here's my thoughts, and they're only my opinions, and feel free to ignore them. XD

Andun's Victim doesn't make sense. I mean, of course it does when you know what Andun is, but you won't from reading the title. The first idea is that it's a person, not a country. (it is a country, right?) Also, to me, it just sounds like a second-rate novel, a beginner's work. Maybe you are a beginner still, in the long scheme of things, but I happen to like your novel - or Iri - too much to let you say that, so there. XD

I really like Carseld Chronicles. I'm not sure what about it I love, I just love it. I can imagine the most epic cover art for it. XD But if, as you're saying, the other books aren't in Carseld then they'd have to be named the same way to make that clear, IMO. But then, maybe not, dunno. Anyhow, that's my favorite of the three for sure.

I agree with Sea... On the Wings of Hope does sound sort of cliche. It's also pretty long. On Wings of Hope doesn't seem to fit the epic scale of the story IMO. Wings of Hope is an awesome name, but that would mean your story would have to be about wings, or have someone/something with wings, whatever. Which I don't think it is/has, although it'd be awesome if it did because I love wings....

Soo... those are my thoughts on the names you have listed there. As for more names... hmmm. I'm having trouble thinking of many... I don't know your story very well. Or, not as well as I'd like. XD (I also have a song running through my head. "Out of death, life; out of night, day; out of fire, air..." it's getting irritating.)

Hmmm... "Out of Death"? "Elven Traitor". "War of Two". "Friends&Enemies." "Hope of Traitors". Okay, that last one's downright cheesy... XD

*shrug* I hope that helped you some.

I chose Upon the Wings of Hope, it's definitely my favourite. It has that ring to it that immediately pulls me in.

* so happy E was thinking about her epic book *

"Andun's Victim" is a bit confusing for me, because I think of a person, not a country.

I really like "Carseld Chronicles", but I can see why it could be confusing if they aren't all set in Carseld. It has this ring to it, though... Like parchment, and sword fights. ^^

I do like "Upon the Wings of Hope." It is a bit long, though...

The first other ideas that came to mind was "Traitor's Bait" (not sure where that came from...) and "Changed Tides."

Hope that helped, E.

I really don't know much about your book, so I couldn't tell you exactly. But then again, the title definitely effects the first impression that a reader has of your book.

"Andun's Victim" reminds me of the Anne of Green Gables movie for some reason. What was her story called? "Avril's Revenge" or something like that?

"Upon the Wings of Hope" sounds nice, but it immediately makes me think of an Inspirational or a Historical book, instead of fantasy. Not sure why. But a snazzy book cover could fix that impression.

I think Carseld Chronicles is my favorite. But like I said, without knowing about your book, I'm not sure how well it would fit. But I still like it.

Andun's Victim sounds a bit generic, which would be fine for later in a series, where fans would know the significance of "Andun," but probably not ideal for the first book in the series.

Carseld Chronicles sounds like a series name, but Carseld is an intriguing word and could work well as part of the title, though perhaps not if Carseld Chronicles was the series title.

I agree with Laura that Upon the Wings of Hope sounds inspirational or historical.

As I said before, Carseld is a good word to use in a title, and since hope is important to the book, perhaps Carseld's Hope?

Do you have a series title settled on? That might help with a title, so that you can rule out (or possibly make use of) the words in the series title.

I like "Wings of Hope and Shadow." Even more so if you and your Mama have a cover idea...

*comes in here after having been poked * I know you didn't ask me to come here because I "B. appear to have a lot of knowledge about titles and such", despite the fact that I somehow hit on a good suggestion for Bethy, so I'm guessing I was brought here for reason A.


Okay, to be honest, I like Shadowed Hope....

My reasons? Well, I think the book has a central theme of hope, but it is always clouded and shadowed much of the time. I mean, it is confusing. The characters sometimes feel like losing hope. They question and ask why just like any other human would in rough times (or other races ). Life’s not simple, and it’s not simple in Carseld. They have to hold onto hope. They have to keep the flame burning within them, and the shadows constantly want to snuff that hope out.

That is my thought, anyways. I think it captures the essence, and has a nice contrast, but as I said, I’m not great a picking titles.

* nods * I like Shadowed Hope...

Now, I haven't actually read your book (publish it and we'll fix that ), but like what I've heard and I'm a little opinionated on titles... I assume, since you invited me over here, you want me to share my opinionated thoughts.

First, I don't think "Andun's Victim" is cheesy at all. It's simple but effective. "Andun," being a made-up name, designates it as fantasy without being too hard to read (unpronounceable names in a title really turn me off ), while "Victim" has built-in tension. It's interesting with enough flavor and tension to make me curious about the book.

"Carseld Chronicles" makes a good series title, but not really a book title, so I think you're right to forgo that one.

"Upon the Wings of Hope" and "Wings of Hope and Shadow" are both very poetic. They're pretty, but they're flowery... and long. It doesn't speak "fantasy adventure novel with some darkness and blood" to me. It's fluffy, and almost a bit too hopeful to be tense. It sounds more like historical fiction or drama.

You might be able to use the "wings" concept if you're pushing the dragonrider element of your book, but otherwise I'm not sure I'd use that "Wings of" phrase in a title. It's poetic fluff, which is great for a poem or song but not necessarily effective for a book title. I'm a fan of short titles in general, so I'm a little biased, but I don't think you should use words in a title that do not add power. Your title will be used tons of places - cover, descriptions, promotional material, etc. The longer it is, the more space it will take up. Any word you have in there that's not necessary is just clutter.

"Hope and Shadow" might work, although it's a bit generic. It has the essence right, though - hope (light) and shadow (tension and darkness).

Them's my writerly assessment.

Wings of Hope and Shadow. Definitely. Just try saying it... it sings. And yes, it's a snapshot of essence; not plot, but with a fantasy cover I think it will do the trick nicely. The wings part has a double meaning which is also very cool.

Absolutely, the cover makes a huge difference in your marketing. But you still want to be sure that the title - meaning and tone - fit the essence of your novel.

Of the "Wings" titles, "Wings of Hope and Shadow" flows best. Flow is very important, also - it needs to roll off the tongue. "Wings of Hope and Shadow" does that - it had a very nice feel. Very rhythmic. I like the sound of it - I just wanted to point out that it didn't feel tense and adventurous enough to match the essence I've been getting from your excerpts and such. But I haven't read it in full, so ignore me!

Ultimately, the title needs to speak to you. It needs to represent the heart of the story as you see it. When you say the title, it needs to encapsulate the entire book for you. In your mind. Do any of these titles resonate with you? Why or why not? Have you tried doing some exercises to tap into the essence of the book? Like doing an essence map. Another idea I've heard is to grab a piece of paper and write down a flat list of all the words that represent the book (objects, names, themes, whatever) and mix and match.

But it's always been Andun's Victim! It can't just change, can it?
(apparently yes)

Well, I have a thing for Wings being in there, simply because all the MCs are dragon riders, right?

Hope and shadow together sound amazing, but I like it better when I can say a book title in a breath (So Wings of Hope and Shadow is out).

Shadows of Hope?

Out of everyone's suggestions, I like Wings of Shadowed Hope, personally.

As in shadows created by wings? * grins *

Not quite what I meant, but that'll work too.

Okay, before I say anything I have to say I agree with Ciela on several points.

1. It's always been Andun's Victim! How can you just... change it? (But then again, this is coming from a girl who is constantly switching titles to different books in different series or creating a whole series based on a title just because she didn't want to get rid of such a sweet name. )

2. I can also understand why you want the wings in there. It has a nice ring to it!

3. Yes, for a dark fantasy, it’d probably be best to have a title you can say in one breath.

I, however, disagree about “Wings of Hope and Shadow”. I think it’s a nice title! Intriguing enough for a dark fantasy? *shrugs* Depends on the cover. That was one of the reasons I really grew attached to Andun’s Victim. If I saw that title on a bookshelf under fantasy, I’d be snatching it up to look at the cover. It just seems to promise danger and adventure and intense action scenes (especially if it’s in one of those really snazzy fonts! )

But… you don’t seem happy with the title.

Of the other titles mentioned, I’d have to say I like “Shadowed Hope” the best. It has the same short catchy title as Andun’s victim with a hint of subtle danger.

Nothing is coming to me right now, but I’ll be thinking on this and if I can come up with any other suggestions I’ll let you know. With a book as epic as yours the title has to be equally epic … or perhaps that’s just my opinion coming to the surface.

The one thing I’d urge you to keep in mind is your audience. For example, a title like “Wings of Hope and Shadow” might peak a girl’s interest when she see it, but would it have the same effect for a guy? (Keep in mind, as I already said, I like this title! I'm just using it as an example.) Be sure and ask the question “If I were a guy, would this title catch my attention?” Or better yet, drag some more guys into this conversation to see what they think.

The only reason, I wanted to emphasis this is because of what I learned from the Christian Writer’s Guild. If the title catches the reader’s eye, he’ll pick it up and look at the cover. If he likes the cover, he turn to the blurb on the back. And if he like what he reads… Sold! (Unless of course I'm the reader. Then who cares about titles, covers, or blurbs! E's book would be published! )

From what little I know about your book, E... I liked Shadowed Hope best.

I can say Wings of Hope and Shadow in one breath without any trouble. It hardly qualify as a long title.

Wings of Hope and Shadow does sound a bit... sensationalist. But one of my all-time favorite books is On the Wings of the Falcon, which is way too long for a book title in my opinion, and I'm always trying to shorten it, and then I can't remember what it is, precisely... "On Wings of Falcons? On the Wings of Falcons? On Wings of the Falcons?" But the title is absolutely perfect for the book, and captures an essence that is never directly stated. I think Wings of Hope and Shadow is the same way, and at the same time it flows much better.

Now that I've whispered and said the title to myself several times (you wouldn't imagine the weird looks I got), I'm thinking it . . . doesn't sound like a fantasy novel. Wings of Hope and Shadow is now carrying to me the essence of a Beverly Lewis (Amish romance) book, and I'm really not sure why. Maybe it's the length and mention of hope and wings in the same sentence. It's just kind of an airy title.

I'm putting my vote in for Shadowed Hope. Or something with dragon in it.

Dragon's Shadow? Hope of Shadows? Shattered Shadows? Dragon's Hope? Hope's Wings?

Just some more brainstorming . . .

E, can you put my nomination in the poll? It seems several people are voting for it.

*grimace* Please, please, please don't be offended, but Wings of Hope and Shadow sounds like a really cheesy, sentimental pulp romance of some kind.

You could always modify Carseld Chronicles to "The Carseld Chronicle" if you absolutely want to, but Chronicles doesn't mean there's more than one book. It just means it chronicles something, keeps a history. In the Jewish Bible there's only one book of Chronicles, but it still works!

You can guess what I voted for.

(Incidentally the book is actually called "The Wings of a Falcon.")

Airi, if she edits the poll all current votes will be lost. It might be easier to just count how many people have specified yours as their "other" or to create a new poll...

Wow...had no idea there actually was a book like that, but...yeah. You see my point.

Ah, forgot about the lost information that comes with a new poll. Well that won't work, then.

*tip-toes in* Of all the names suggested, I like Carseld's Hope best. I find titles with original names in them stick in my head a lot easier than a generic title. That's my 2 cents. *tip-toes back out*

Have you decided on a title yet, E?

I'm likin' it, especially "Wings of War," for whatever reason.

Ooh I love it, E! It sounds good with all of them!

I really like the titles, but you may want to consider that Amazon has book results listed with the titles 'Wings of Hope' and 'Wings of Shadow'. Neither of them are in the same genre as yours, so it may not really matter, but I thought I'd mention it.

~ZA

I love that idea! I remember when I had a trilogy I was using, I used colors as a basis. I.E:

Leaves of Silver
Black Skies
On White Wings

I always love trilogies that have some sort of word or concept carrying through to each book. So yes, I love those names you chose!