I know there are several Dekker fans here. So I'm curious if any of you have read the Paradise Trilogy - Showdown, Saint and Sinner. I must admit, I disagree with a lot of Ted Dekker's theology but I absolutely love his writing style and it really shines in this series.

It was actually the Paradise Trilogy that got me hooked on Dekker. Yes, I'm a member of a rare breed of people who actually read the Paradise books before the Circle Series. It might be because I'm a political dork. It was also this series along with Joel C. Rosenberg's books that have served as the primary inspiration for the story I'm working on now.

From a storyteller's point of view, I love the idea of books that change history. I'm also very keen on the concept of a fantasy story that takes place in our world. It's neat to see how the introduction of the supernatural effects the real world. Saint shows how it effects the military. Sinner shows how it effects politics. And Showdown shows the effects the supernatural have on everyday folks.

So, anyone else out there read this series? Any thoughts?

I completely, absolutely adore Ted Dekker.

I agree, that he has some graphic content, and that the implications of some of his work are wrong if taken too far. And I also agree that a lot of people would find his work far too dark.

But I think he has done an amazing job developing the Christian thriller. I have read Blink of an Eye, Thr3e, Black, Red, White, Saint, Showdown, Sinner, Kiss, the Martyr's Song...lol. And I think a few more that I can't think of right now.

The only book of his that hasn't been beneficial to me has been House. And I think that was Peretti's fault. (sorry Peretti fans!):D

In my opinion, Dekker's Martyr's Song and his Circle Trilogy (or...series, whichever you consider them) are his crowning glories.

Oh, I absolutely love Ted Dekker! And the Paradise novels are some of my favorite ones. Saint is by far my favorite out of the set. I read these out of order the first time I read them, and I liked them better for it. If you read Saint first, you have no idea who Saint is. If you read Showdown first, you have a guess and it isn't nearly as fun to read Saint second. Sinner was really good.

Has anyone else noticed that his newer books don't have the same, like, meaning? I mean, some times, in his newer books, I can't find the point to the book. Just wondering if anyone else felt that way to.

Saint was my favorite too.

I've also noticed that about Dekker's newer books. He seems to be getting more shallow as he goes on. For example, Bride Collector seemed all about self-esteem and feeling good about yourself.

Anyone else excited about Forbidden? I'm hoping Tosca Lee, who is more of a spiritual mindset, will be able to add that spiritual depth back into his work.

I read one of Tedd Dekker's books, but can't remember the name. It was about being 2 or 3 miles from paradise, and the kids were in the cellar writing in empty books or something..........?

I think that would be Showdown.

And actually...I think the Bride Collector was one of his earliest books, but it hasn't been published till now...

so...yeah.

That was it! I really enjoyed reading it, but I thought it was really weird.

I like Dekker well enough, but I honestly did not care much for the Paradise novels. I liked Saint, and thought Showdown was a bit much; but the end of Sinner was too much for me. After Sinner I read Boneman's Daughters, that's enough to give anyone nightmares. I'll never think of the word "pop" the same after reading that book. It seems that his more recent books are getting darker and darker, like he's trying to see just how far into the mind of evil he can delve and still be believable.

I would argue that he needs to put darkness into his books...People today (and indeed throughout history) do. not. realize. how disgusting and horrible our sin is.

Showdown, Saint, and Sinner do an amazing job of showing that.

Also...White shows up the best next to black. I think that's part of the reason he depicts such blatant evil in some of his books. It's necessary. I have never read a Ted Dekker book that had gratuitous evil in it.

There's darkness for a point, and then there's throwing the reader into the middle of insanity with little guidance. What I didn't like about Showdown was that I never really felt like I was in the world, it left me feeling off-balance (which was probably intentional), and I'm off-balance enough in my life without an author contributing to the problem. And my main problem with the ending of Showdown is that it just seemed like all-of-a-sudden Dekker decided what he wanted to do with the book and just sprung it on us with little warning. It just didn't flow well in my opinion.
And like I said, you want to read uber-dark, read Boneman's Daughters *Shudders* There isn't a sane viewpoint in the whole book and by the end you're not feeling so sane yourself (please, no insanity jokes. I know it's our favorite running gag, but this time I'm being relatively serious). I'm not saying it wasn't well written, it was brilliantly written! And therein lies the problem. And I'm all for portraying the filth of sin, but his writing still worries me that he's drifting towards the Dark Side.
In Christ,
Jordan
P.S. - my first ever and all-time-favorite Dekker novel was Blink (rewritten as In The Blink of An Eye).

Well...people do have levels as to how much intensity they can handle.

But...it's my opinion that his books SHOULD disturb us! Satan, and human depravity aren't light issues, and they can't be dealt with as such. Showdown is supposed to make you squirm.

And I'm afraid I haven't read the Bride Collector yet. But as soon as I have I'll tell you what I think of it.

I'm new here, so I might as well start with something that I know.

Ted Dekker is one of my favorite writers. I also disapprove of a lot of his content.

While he perceptively presents issues in compelling ways that speak to our generation, he also has one belief flaw that taints the rest of his work. The cloistered, repressed child reoccurs in his work, almost to the point where I think that he is against any sheltering of children. Perhaps he writes like that because of his experiences as a missionary child growing up in the mission school.

Regardless of why he returns to the subject, his books evidence a growing embrace of evil on his part. Perhaps not in his daily life, but in the way his brain works. He may have been sheltered as a child, but he displays no evidence of being any longer sheltered. I differ from him when he believes that he is drawn to evil more because he has been deprived of it. I believe that anyone is drawn to evil because of what is in his heart. If he has not disciplined his heart, possibly through parental discipline and guidance, he will find himself drawn to evil.

I don't want to say that Ted Dekker lacks discipline, but the character flaw that he keeps bringing up seems to be a problem with an undisciplined will—not with a will that has seen too much discipline.

That being said, his Circle Trilogy is by far his masterpiece. My favorite book of his is Blink (I own the copy before he lengthened the title).

Although I haven't read the Paradise series (they looked a little dark), I have read a lot of other books Dekker has written. The more I read, the more I'm becoming disillusioned with his writing style and plots. You have to admit, they are all a little similar! Every man is handsome, every woman beautiful, they all have green eyes...
I read the new YA series - Elyon, Lunatic, Chosen - and was disturbed by all the violence in there. A lot of it was un-necessary. I began to wonder if he's beginning to ghostwrite - especially with the fast pace he's churning these books out.
I also don't get the message he's trying to convey (if there is one!). When a character feels called to "love" their enemies, it's usually physically (as in the case of the YA series). Um... yeah. There's a LOT more to loving your enemy than hugging them.
And in Blink, which is the Dekker book I've read most recently, the last scene? When the car chase has ended and they're in the shack, and Seth suddenly realizes he's supposed to be loving the bad guy? Then the chapter ends on that "light bulb turning on" and the end of the book showdown goes on as usual.
Okay, I'll stop ranting.
Really I do like Dekker - just not all of his books. Blessed Child and the Circle Trilogy will always be on my favorites list.

I'm about halfway through Showdown, and I've read Saint and Sinner.
I don't like these near as well as the Circle series. These seem kind of dry... not as interesting.
Not to mention I don't exactly get what spiritual message he's trying to teach or whatever, but there's stuff I don't exactly agree with. I don't remember what specifically, at the moment, but there's been a couple times I've just thought "Um... okay? That's a bit weird."

The darkness of the books doesn't bother me in the least... that's what sin is like. We need to open our eyes up to that. And really, they don't even seem all that dark to me.

I don't want to start a debate and send this thread hurtling off topic (I've never read the Paradise Novels) but I just had a question to ask you all. The only Ted Dekker novel I've ever read is The Martyr's Song. And here's my question:

What good is there showing all this darkness if you aren't going to show Jesus afterwards? And what's the worth of reading something that is just portraying pure sin? We have enough of that in the world itself!

In the Martyr's Song, the priest goes to heaven, he's killed by tyrannical soldiers, he sees the girl that was killed only just before him, yet nowhere in the book is Jesus even mentioned. And a heaven without Jesus is no heaven at all! That's from the Bible that I get that stuff, not my head. And that's what left me with a very low impression of The Martyr's Song, and, more generally Ted Dekker.

So. Like I said, I haven't read any of his other books. I don't know what they're like. But I encourage all of y'all to think about the questions I asked. Mainly, they're the reason why I decided not to read any more Dekker after The Martyr's Song.

eruheran

eruheran, I know what you mean. I think that there wasn't so much "explicit" Jesus in the Martyr's Song (and in some of his other books) because it's a book that is written FOR Christians.

If you read some of his other books though, (The Circle Trilogy which imo is his crowning glory) Christ is a lot more present.

I don't want to start a flaming debate, but even if we're Christians, do we ever move on from the amazing beauty and mystery of the cross? Just because we understand it doesn't mean that we can forget about it. For me, at least, reading Christian books are one of the ways that I grow in my faith. This one was lacking the single most crucial element of the gospel, and written for Christians or not, I don't want a gospel that doesn't have Jesus in it. But, not reading Dekker is a personal decision, and I can't speak for any of his other books, because I haven't read them, so please don't think I'm trying to judge you for reading his books. It's just a personal decision, and I can see your reasons for reading them.

eruheran

I was pretty sure you would say something like that. And I agree with you. I'm just stating why he doesn't go as explicitly Christian in some books. Because he assumes we already know it.

I'm not trying to say that we don't need to be reminded, and centered on Christ throughout our lives. We DEFINITELY do.

OK, well I was pretty sure you would say that. I guess we're in agreement, but our application just extends to different books.

I'll let y'all get back on topic now.

eruheran