Thread for expanding on the discussion begun in Portraying the Bible

I don't deny that what we say is important - it certainly is. But our words do not have the same power as the word of God. That simply cannot be supported from Scripture.

Should this be in here or in Theology?
God bless,
Crushmaster.

Ok, here is where I semi-agree with both of you. Crush, you're right. The Word of God is powerful, and in real life, yes: it can do miraculous things. However, I agree completely with Sui when he says that our words are also powerful. This is a belief I hold to very strongly. (though I will by no means be forceful about it)

The Bible tells us time and again how important it is to guard our words.

"Death and life [are] in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof." Prov. 18:21

"I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live." Deut. 30:19

Also, God made us in His own image, and how did He make us? By His words. If we are made in the image of God, surely, the words we say have importance.

Though I do believe God's Word is all powerful, I believe that God has also given us power through our own words.

(Theology discussions usually pertain to how theology should be used in writing. Are we discussing the power of words from a writerly point of view, or from one that pertains to our lives as well? I thought more the latter, so I put it here. What do you think?)

That's the thing, though - I don't deny our words have power; what we say is extremely important. I just deny that they have the same power.

As for where this topic should belong: I agree.
God bless,
Crushmaster.

Ahhh, I see what you mean. *ponders* No, our words can't have the same power because we are human, and He is God. You're right.

*switches back to writing* However in a writing sense, if we use God's Word in our fictitious writing merely for the sake of using His Word and not having it as a major plot device, this detracts from God's true meaning, and I think it can have an opposite effect. I think if we are to use the Bible in writing, one should use extreme care, else we could misconstrue the original message and drown the meaning with our own words. (powerful as our own words are, they pale up against God's. )

I'm going to ask my Dad about that scripture, Bushy; only because we have talked about this topic lots. but I can never remember what he says about it!

I don't believe we have power in our words in the sense that if I said, 'Goodness, I'm so tired I could die' I wouldn't die. Or if I said I'm going to die laughing, I wouldn't you know?

I believe that there can still be miracles, so I believe that if we proclaim something through Jesus' name then it can happen, for instance healing etc. However that would be a gift from Jesus, I don't believe we can ever claim power of ourselves. Neither do I believe we can hold onto a gift forever, God gives the gifts severally as he wills: 1Co 12:11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. So basically, I'm saying I believe that there are gifts that we can use if God gives them to us though Jesus, however I don't believe we can just randomly proclaim things and they will happen. Am I making sense?

P.S I get so excited when I see a topic like this on HW, because I see so many scriptures backing their thoughts up, and people discussing not debating.

*grins* This thread proves to be interesting

I think that as y'all stand I'm inclined to agree with Crush. I mean, we have records of God himself coming down from heaven to speak with Moses, literally giving him the words that later became Leviticus/Numbers. He did that for forty days - sort of an intense NaNo! See below:



This verse says that God literally wrote what Moses later copied down. Paul says the same thing, basically:



So I agree with Crush in that Scripture is absolutely infallible, and that there can be no additions to it.

One thing that's worth mentioning is that doesn't mean God doesn't still speak to us today. Far from it, in fact. God can still speak to us, I believe, even through visions as he did to Paul/Peter. I also believe God can tell us very specific things. But this is not God-breathed canon.

But I also agree with Sui God has and will use many great men to pursue his plan. When we look at books like R.C. Sproul or Jonathan Edwards, or John Piper, it is clear that God was with them when they wrote this. But God didn't physically write their books; this is not inspired truth that I know is true.

It reminds me of the verse in which Paul commends the Bereans for checking everything against scripture to see if it is true. Ultimately, I can't test my beliefs against Jonathan Edwards; only the Bible.

To direct this rambly post to writing I think, in our writing, we can definitely be used by God, just as God used Billy Graham in evangelism. We can't deny that God guides and directs our writing, and will use it in his plan for the kingdom, some way, and also in our own walk. But the distinction must be clear that this writing is not God-breathed.

So...I think I just echoed Crush there Anyways.

eru

Great posts, Elanor and Eru! I am not in full command of my wits right now, as it's late, but as this thread is looking like it will have more posts on it by morning, I want to say a few things real quick.


I actually believe that speaking like this is opening the door for Satan, Elanor. My family has become acutely aware of the way we speak during the past few years, and we have obliterated all kind of talk that includes bodily harm, or events happening that we don't desire. By speaking words aloud, we give life to them. We have become so enlightened by this, that when we heard a friend's mother joking about her son's parachute jump, saying "So where do I pick your body up from?" we were flabbergasted. If God places such high value on the things we say, I don't believe we should use them in such a blase way.


Love this, very true! The Bible is our one true source of truth, and if we continue to measure everything we hear against it, we will come to know exactly what is true and what isn't.

I hope to expand on a few things tomorrow, but that's all for now.

@Bush: That is a very interesting point and well worth pursuing - thanks for bringing that up

eru

Something I would like you all to think about is that us incorporating the Bible into our story does not hold the same power as the actual Bible. Yes, God's word is more powerful than ours, but we are the tool used to deliver that word, giving us an important place.

However, when you are talking from a fantasy sense, your creation of a Bible like figure is not the same, at all. Therefore, I do not see it being more powerful to have a Bible like figure in your writing, than to not have one. When writing fantasy, we are witnessing through words, examples, and characters. Even if you take verses from the Bible and implement them into your fantasy world, they do not hold the same power.

I think you guys are sort of missing each other's point. I don't think anyone would argue that God's word is not more powerful than our words. But I think the real argument here is that our stories do not need a Bible depicted in order to have power. A book with the Bible depicted can actually be weaker than one without that depiction, if it does not have other elements that display Christianity.

Also, I do not believe that just giving someone a Bible is more effective than talking with them about Christ. While our words are not the same, our witness is very powerful. Most people are saved through Christ in us, as opposed to just reading a Bible. God brings people to him through us, the Bible is our tool to grow us, not the tool of the unsaved.

That was really ill put together.... Oh well, you get the basic point.

Good discussion on this thread... *will have to think on this a lot*

I agree with a lot of what Airianna has said as well as Bushmaid.

Like Bushmaid said, our words will obviously not hold the same power as God's, because He's God. And as Airianna said, our human words do have some power, or influence, I should say.

There's that quote, "The pen is mightier than the sword." Sometimes words have more power than action itself.

Words, both spoken and written, are incredibly important either way because those are the way we learn. One of the gifts we received as human beings from God.

Think of all the Bible studies out there and the Theologians such as C.S. Lewis, William Barclay, Max Lucado, Lee Strobel, and many others. Their words have a significant impact on people and their beliefs.

We all know how words can change our lives, hurt our feelings, make us feel good, ect.

For story example, when I went to public school on the bus as a first grader, one of the of the older boys bullied me about my longish nose. It made me feel so miserable that I wanted surgery done on it even at such young age. Over the years kids would make passing comments about it not knowing it hurt my feelings. To this day it still hurts my feelings (and it's embarrassing to admit), but I've come to terms that this is how God made me and I can't imagine being any different. Then a couple years ago, a girl was staring at me during a Christmas play rehearsal, I stared back, and she looked away. The normal reaction when the starer is stared at. A few minutes later she came up to me and said, "I'm sorry for staring, but I just wanted to let you know I love your nose. I love the shape and I think it's really beautiful." She was a complete stranger to me, yet her words built me up and I felt so elated and blessed that I teared up gave her a hug. I don't think I'll ever forget her and the words she told me.

Words can be good and bad. A blessing and a curse. It all depends on what you use them for. ^^

(Sorry for the giant roundabout post....)

~Calen

*has realized what he was confused about and posted in the Portraying the Bible thread*

Amen.

Watching this topic...

Might I revive this thread with a question: Do you believe the words we speak have power literally, or figuratively?

Bushy, I did a Bible study on this but I never posted what I thought. I am having a busy, busy, busy week so I might not have time to post it, however in the next couple of weeks I will type it up so it makes sense (hopefully ) and post it here.

Figuratively, I think.

Interesting question, Bush. *will post when has thought and has time*


*echoes*

Oh dear! I said a couple of weeks a long, long time ago!

Anyhow, here it is! I did a Bible study with my family and this is what we discovered from looking at different scriptures and Greek meanings. I haven’t shared it for a long time, and for that I apologise! I hope you enjoy it, you don’t have to agree of course! And I’m more than willing for you to point out if you think we’re wrong somewhere, I’ll go and study it some more. It's...quite long! I just had a lot of notes, and I've written it all into what seems to be understandable!


------------------------------------------------------



When my Mother was a little girl her Mother hated her; she loved her sister but hated my Mother, and whenever she introduced them to anyone she would say ‘this is my rose,’ about Mother’s sister and then would point to Mother and say ‘that's my weed.’ She said this all Mother’s life and never changed her words. She died not wanting to see Mother. This has had a long term effect on my Mother, she is very insecure in friendships and always pulls herself down and can never believe that people, even her close family sometimes, would love her. That is what I believe that verse means. Nana repeated those words over and over, acted on them and treated my Mother like she was hated, her words carried into her actions and that caused the affect.



If I decide that I am going to build up my brothers and sisters in the Lord, and I encourage, build up, and pray for them, am I not bringing life to them? If I decide to go and preach the gospel to the lost, am I not bringing life to them? And if I decide to go to people and speak hateful words, be spiteful about people, tear down, am I not bringing death? The word life in the greek (I used e-sword which is a Greek online bible as a reference) can mean a lot of things in this instance: it can mean live, restore, revive, quicken, nourish up, preserve. Death can mean destroy, kill, pestilence and ruin. So, if I went to my Mother and told her I hated her, that I never wanted to see or speak to her again, I would destroy something in her, she’d be hurt and torn down. Something in her would surely die. If I told her I loved her, and cared for her surely I would be building her up.



If the Bible says that an ‘undeserved curse shall not come to rest’ I believe that we should not fear words that someone might randomly come out with. He said an undeserved curse won’t come to rest.

I do believe that we shouldn’t give place to the devil. I think there is a spiritual warfare on yes.



For instance if, as a Christian, I begin to take be taken in a certain sin, I am letting the devil have a foot hold in my life. I am leaving myself open to temptation. Not through someones words though, through my sinful actions.

However, I do not believe there is creative power in our words, so if I demanded something come about with my words, I do not believe that would happen. There can be a false premise come about sometimes I think, where people say ‘we shall be as gods’ and they believe they can demand money and prosperity and they will just be given it, (I am not at all saying anyone here is like that!) but I believe only God can have the power in His words. I believe in the spiritual gifts, so I think that someone can be given a gift from God, but the Bible says He gives severally and as He wills,(1 Corinth 12:11) so that does not mean you will have that same gift all your life. You might only be given it once, and it would be His power used through you. I don’t believe we can have power in anything, but through God. So if someone said to me “I hope you die tomorrow,” or “You might break your arm” I would not be fearful. Greater is He that is in me, than He that is in the world!

If people chose to go around sowing death in their words, tearing down, spreading lies, then I believe that the scripture in Proverbs means that they will reap what they are sowing. Same as if someone builds up, encourages, nourishes, pastors and quickens, they will reap what they are sowing, which is life!

I agree. A very good post.

*Is glad Jon agrees* Thank you!

I agree, too, Elanor. Thanks for taking the time to write all that out; it's a great post.

Thanks for reading it, Abbie!

That was an awesome post, Elanor! Thankyou so much for taking the time to write it down for us! I shall gather my own thoughts and come back with a reply post sometime this week.

We shall be waiting.

Thank you, Bush Maid! I shall look forward to it.

* raises eyebrows *

We're still waiting, BushMaid.

Thankyou for the poking guys. I forgot all about this thread, mostly because the root question that I posed overflows into so many various aspects of living that I was finding it difficult to put it all down without going off on tangents. But I will do my best.

I want to say firstly that I entirely agree with your post, Elanor. It was very well said, and all the points about speaking death or life into a person by the words we say, I absolutely agree with. So what I am about to say can be taken as additional, not contrary to what you shared.



I especially agree with you here. Just thought I'd note that.

To begin, I believe the words we speak have power in themselves. In most cases though, a careless word does not have any force behind it because the speaker lacks conviction. (i.e. a sarcastic comment)



But I don’t think that if one simply believes in what they are saying they will get it. What you said about demanding things like prosperity or money and expecting to get it, I don’t believe in to a certain extent. I believe in order for you to gain from the words you speak, they must be in line with God’s Word. (So for example, if someone is poor and needs money, going around saying “I’m wealthy! I’m wealthy!” won’t get them anywhere, but confessing the Word that says God desires they prosper, and that He supplies all their needs I do believe will reap results. I believe this applies to any aspect of need in a Christian life, but I know many disagree with me there. [PM me if you want more details, because this tangent could go on forever].)

I liked and understood where you were coming from with the verse that says “an undeserving curse will not alight”, and I agree with it. Typically, I don’t fear words that wish evil upon me, because if it is an undeserving curse, the protection of God will keep me from it. If someone came up to me and wished me ill, in my case, I wouldn’t be afraid because I recognize its evil and know it cannot affect me. However I do believe our words hold a physical power if we continue to use and abuse the gift of speech towards our fellow man. In saying so, I quote this verse:


If we break this down, see what can be understood from it: “A man shall eat well by the fruit of his mouth.” This assumes very strongly that something physical is gained by what you say, and by choosing the right words, you eat well of it. In guarding your mouth, you preserve your life. Not just by guarding your mouth from saying something that would offend another and put your life in jeopardy due to their wrath, but protects your life from the effects of careless words you might inflict upon yourself.


Reckless and hasty words bring bad things to life. The same power that they have when they escape your lips, and you see the horror of them on the face of someone you have offended; the same way you cannot possibly ever retract something spoken; this is something I often think Satan takes advantage of.

A family mourning their son’s death in a car accident might bewail, “Why did this happen?” And yet not think of the times they may have said “You’ll kill yourself if you keep driving that way.” I know of many personal experiences where the words we have spoken have come back to bite us just the way we said they would in the beginning.

There are so many Bible references that state how important keeping our tongue on a leash is. I will quote a few here:



There are many warnings in the Bible to guard our tongue, and to watch our words. You could read them in such a way that it applies both to spiritual/ emotional death, and also physical death if you so choose. However way you read it, the most important point of all is that God places high value on the things that we say. He doesn’t want us to spend our words recklessly or hastily, or in a manner that we believe “doesn’t matter”. The things we should be speaking are indicated by verses such as:


I’ll be first to say I fail at these instructions daily, hourly, and ofttimes even minutely. But by God’s grace, I hope to someday be able to speak in any situation and have what comes out of my mouth be Godly and edifying. (I could overflow into the subject of sarcasm here, but I’ve no idea where I stand on that matter, only that often it can be taken too far. I’m the last to speak about it anyway, because y’all know how radiant an example I am of snarky sarcasm. )

So in conclusion: do our words have the power to kill spiritually and emotionally? Yes, I believe so. Do they also have the power to kill us physically? I believe so, though I don’t believe it always happens. Satan is always looking for an opportunity to smite us and I believe our subconscious can often be a tool in his hand. The latter may or may not be true. But based on what I know, and what the Bible says about the words we speak, is it worth the risk?

Personally, I don’t think so. Hencewise: I endeavour never to say anything negative, but speak positive words of Scripture to the best of my ability. Those are my lengthy, scattered thoughts on the subject. Please ask me questions! I may have missed clarification somewhere…

Yes. I don't think words can bring death in and of themselves, but they are powerful. If they are combined with other bad things, such as insults combining with someone's depression, they could help bring death. Meanwhile, encouraging words could help the person overcome depression, and bring life.


That should be the goal of every Christian.