Elves: Genre convention or cliche?

Elanhil · **Posted:** April 11th, 2011, 9:40 am

Well, that's about the size of it. Submit your vote and thoughts then carry on.

Leandra Falconwing · **Posted:** April 11th, 2011, 10:17 am

I'd say genre convention. There may be aspects of elves that have become cliche, but that doesn't mean that elves themselves are.

Elanhil · **Posted:** April 11th, 2011, 12:34 pm

Very true, Leandra. But if an elf isn't the same from book to book, what's to say they are still an elf?

Leandra Falconwing · **Posted:** April 11th, 2011, 12:56 pm

It might depend on how you define an elf. Do all elves have to be immortal, tall, pointy-eared, graceful, wise, powerful, in tune with nature, etc.? What about the elves who are the short, maybe mischievous sort?

In my mind at least, the race of "elf" is a good bit broader than carbon copies of Tolkien's elves.

Yehoshua · **Posted:** April 11th, 2011, 2:00 pm

I think it depends. If by elf we're talking about clones of Tolkien's elves than yes, it's become cliche. However, I think it is possible to do "elves" in a way that is not cliche.

Lady Eruwaedhiel · **Posted:** April 11th, 2011, 7:51 pm

I had to vote for Genre convention, since I have so many.

Calenmiriel · **Joined:** April 19th, 2010, 8:33 pm **Posts:** 2119

I agree with pretty much everyone's comments above about it being a genre convention.

The Bard · **Posted:** April 11th, 2011, 9:42 pm

Can I say both?
To me Elves are like guns in a western: They are really neat and all but you don't have to have them if you don't want to.

Are most elves in fantasy books cliche? Well, yeah, from what I've read Tolkien has taken over elves so much that people can't help but follow him. But there is a fine line between cliche and and not-cliche.

Andrew Amnon Mimetes · **Joined:** May 14th, 2010, 4:43 am **Posts:** 4458

Somewhat echoing everyone else, IMHO Tolkien elves have become a cliche. This includes such elves as those in Eragon...

eru

Lady Eruwaedhiel · **Posted:** April 14th, 2011, 11:13 am

What really annoys me about elves is having them seem little-g godlike. Mine were like that (because when I created my elves, Eragon's elves were all I had experience with) but I've changed them and they're much more vulnerable now. Much to their consternation.

Airianna Valenshia · **Posted:** April 14th, 2011, 6:04 pm

*likes E's elves *

Bethany Faith · **Joined:** January 27th, 2011, 2:13 pm **Posts:** 3226

*echoes everybody*

And...now I want to read about Favorite's elves.

Anyhow, I agree with everyone. Elves in themselves are not cliché, but Tolkiens elves are (they weren't when he wrote LoTR) because everyone has done them. I'd say elves are even expected in fantasy now..if not elves something at least elf-like.
But I, personally, love the race, just not the way it has been done. If I were to put elves in my books I would change them to be different, perhaps I wouldn't even refer to them as elves...Don't know.

Bethany Faith

Andrew Amnon Mimetes · **Joined:** May 14th, 2010, 4:43 am **Posts:** 4458

Does that mean that not having elves is 'breaking the bounds' of Christian fantasy? (I don't have elves)

eru

Bethany Faith · **Joined:** January 27th, 2011, 2:13 pm **Posts:** 3226

eruheran wrote:

Does that mean that not having elves is 'breaking the bounds' of Christian fantasy? (I don't have elves)

Uhhhhhh.....*ponders* hmm....ummm...oooooakkkaaaay....

Yes and no. I think it also depends on your type of world. For example, Middle Earth was a very dark world known for its hidden magic and beauty. Right? Okay, so elves (or at least the Tolkien kind of elves) fit nicely into that world without coming off as boring.
But if you're doing a more... *tries to think of a well known book* Umm...Lost Book Series by Ted Dekker kind of world. It's not known for its beauty or magic. So elves (or at least the Tolkien elves) would not fit into that world...so he created Leadhan.

So...yeah, it kind of is and no it kind of isn't, it really depends on the kind of world you're creating.

I'm going to stop mindlessly rambling now.

Bethany Faith

K. C. Gaunt · **Joined:** October 29th, 2010, 1:15 pm **Posts:** 159

eruheran wrote:

Does that mean that not having elves is 'breaking the bounds' of Christian fantasy? (I don't have elves)

eru

My story doesn't either. Of course it's now sci-fi, so it wouldn't anyway. But it didn't when it was fantasy.

Narnia didn't have elves, either.

- Terra

Arien · **Joined:** February 9th, 2011, 1:08 pm **Posts:** 531

Well, I think I'd have to say elves are about as cliche as humans...

Lady Eruwaedhiel · **Posted:** April 18th, 2011, 1:21 pm

Bethy! *gasps* You haven't read about my elves? Shame shame!

(Have you read any of what I posted in the Fireside? *raised eyebrow*)

Bethany Faith · **Joined:** January 27th, 2011, 2:13 pm **Posts:** 3226

Lady Eruwaedhiel wrote:

Bethy! *gasps* You haven't read about my elves? Shame shame!

(Have you read any of what I posted in the Fireside? *raised eyebrow*)

*innocent girly smile* Noooooo...... *is doubly shamed*

Fireside?...umm.... Okay, see, I have an excuse there...I cannot keep up with the fireside even when I try! But...now that I know you have something posted there... *goes to find Favorite's posts*

Lady Eruwaedhiel · **Posted:** April 18th, 2011, 4:58 pm

viewtopic.php?p=52114#p52114

So, to stay on topic....

"The American screenwriting teacher Robert McKee defines genre conventions as the "specific settings, roles, events, and values that define individual genres and their subgenres." These conventions, always fluid, are usually implicit, but sometimes are made into explicit requirements by publishers of fiction as a guide to authors seeking publication." ~Wikipedia

Suiauthon Mimetes · **Posted:** April 29th, 2011, 2:36 am

Right now I have Tolkein elves but I'm seriously considering replacing them with a type of human that has some elvish qualities.

Elves: Genre convention or cliche?

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