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The Romance of Tristan and Iseult (Joseph Bedier)
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Author:  Andrew Amnon Mimetes [ October 24th, 2010, 11:35 pm ]
Post subject:  The Romance of Tristan and Iseult (Joseph Bedier)
Hi everyone,
Someone recommended this book to me and to my surprise it is available online:
Click here for the full book

I haven't read the book yet, so I don't know what's in it (use caution) but I thought those of y'all who appreciate Arthurian literature might enjoy this. If anyone has read it, what do you think of it? Is it any good? (Jaynin? You're the King Arthur person)

eruheran
Author:  Willow Wenial Mimetes [ October 26th, 2010, 6:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Romance of Tristan and Iseult (Joseph Bedier)
What? I wasn't aware that Tristan and Isold were Arthurian! I always thought they were from a Wagnerian opera! *stands corrected* :shock:
Author:  Constable Jaynin Mimetes [ October 27th, 2010, 9:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Romance of Tristan and Iseult (Joseph Bedier)
Willow... oh dear. :shock:

Logengrin is an Authurian Legend too, it's one of the German ones; which are less known. Tristan and Isolde is a french romance, like Lancelot and Guinevere, Gawaine and the Loathly Lady, Gareth and Lynette, etc.

If this is the version I think it is I think I own it. I can't remember what's in it that requires caution, though I think there is some. Tristan and Isolde is an obsession of mine, which is odd, considering no matter how you look at it is chock full of inappropriate themes. :roll:

Maybe I should have looked at the link before I posted...
Author:  Andrew Amnon Mimetes [ October 28th, 2010, 7:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Romance of Tristan and Iseult (Joseph Bedier)
I actually only looked for it online just because I have a friend named Tristan, so the title caught my interest. :D I'll let y'all know what I think of it when I finish it.

eruheran
Author:  Constable Jaynin Mimetes [ October 28th, 2010, 10:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Romance of Tristan and Iseult (Joseph Bedier)
Do that. I looked it over and I still don't remember. :shock: There are sooo many versions of that story...

All I can say is that it's beautifully written and a perfect example of the writing style of the legends. Not too horribly difficult to understand either. When was it written?
Author:  Neil of Erk [ October 30th, 2010, 5:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Romance of Tristan and Iseult (Joseph Bedier)
Vanya Katerina Jaynin wrote:
If this is the version I think it is I think I own it. I can't remember what's in it that requires caution, though I think there is some. Tristan and Isolde is an obsession of mine, which is odd, considering no matter how you look at it is chock full of inappropriate themes. :roll:


I've read a number of versions of this story and none of them are remotely appropriate.
Author:  Willow Wenial Mimetes [ October 30th, 2010, 7:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Romance of Tristan and Iseult (Joseph Bedier)
Well...the whole thing isbased around adultery. :P

I'm not sure how that's really "appropriate"
Author:  Constable Jaynin Mimetes [ October 31st, 2010, 9:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Romance of Tristan and Iseult (Joseph Bedier)
That, unfortunately, is my point. :D

But then, the bible is chock full of adultery too.

However, it does portray it in a favorable light. So I guess what I'm trying to say is that while there's no inappropriate material in the book it does deal with inappropriate themes. See?
Author:  Willow Wenial Mimetes [ October 31st, 2010, 1:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Romance of Tristan and Iseult (Joseph Bedier)
Well, true...there isn't necessarily something wrong with the topic just because it's there, but...yes.:D
Author:  Neil of Erk [ November 1st, 2010, 2:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Romance of Tristan and Iseult (Joseph Bedier)
I'd like to note, though, that in one series I have read, which has the Lancelot/Guinevere plot, and although it wasn't clean, Lancelot ends up as a broken man, repents of his wrong doing, and goes out of his way (and through some horrible physical pain) throughout the book to try to redeem himself.

The same story used Gareth and Lynette, but choose (oddly), for Gareth to fall in love with Lynette's sister (Lynette being a bit too...scrupulous for that sort of thing) and I believe they end up quite dead. (The same goes for Tristan and Isolde, who also show up and end up dead.)

The author liked to portray that sort of thing negatively, but didn't have any qualms about going into detail. (And not Old Testament detail...a bit less frank and a bit more worldly.)
Author:  Willow Wenial Mimetes [ November 1st, 2010, 8:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Romance of Tristan and Iseult (Joseph Bedier)
Neil? What was the name of the Lancelot/Guinevere one that you read?
Author:  Neil of Erk [ November 2nd, 2010, 2:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Romance of Tristan and Iseult (Joseph Bedier)
Willow Wenial wrote:
Neil? What was the name of the Lancelot/Guinevere one that you read?


I have no idea. I don't remember the author, either.
Author:  Constable Jaynin Mimetes [ November 2nd, 2010, 5:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Romance of Tristan and Iseult (Joseph Bedier)
I have never heard of a version of Gareth and Lynette ending up dead... ever... Gareth goes to rescue Lyonesse and she slams the door in his face because she doesn't know who he is. Later she wants to marry him when she finds out he's a king's son but he isn't interested in a girl who only wants him if he ranks high enough so he marries her sister Lynette. Except for in one or two versions where Gareth is as shallow as Lyonesse and marries her. Gaheris, his brother marries the other sister.

Their oldest brother, Gawaine, marries Lady Ragnell in another French Romance, but he doesn't get involved in any of this adultery business and remains a very faithful spouse as far as I know.

The fourth brother, Agravaine has no story that I'm aware of. Sad. :(

Lancelot and Guinevere can be told so many different ways even I loose track... :shock:

But that's a pretty good summing up of Tristan and Isolde. Some versions are worse than other versions, but I think if you read it with the right perspective it's not any worse than, say, Shakespeare. (I'm struggling to find the right words to describe the morality or lack thereof in King Arthur Romances...)
Author:  Andrew Amnon Mimetes [ November 3rd, 2010, 6:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Romance of Tristan and Iseult (Joseph Bedier)
Thanks y'all for the comments. I still haven't gotten to it (lots of schoolwork) but when I will I'll bear them in mind. :)

eruheran
Author:  Willow Wenial Mimetes [ November 3rd, 2010, 6:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Romance of Tristan and Iseult (Joseph Bedier)
Ugh, Katerina. Shakespeare was actually really raunchy! I hadn't realized that till this school year.:P

And I thought that in the traditional tale of Lancelot and Guinevere, Lancelot was killed, and Guinevere was either sent to a convent or had her head mounted on a pike...
Author:  Kiev Shawn [ November 3rd, 2010, 7:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Romance of Tristan and Iseult (Joseph Bedier)
Same here, Willow. Ugh. :P
Author:  Constable Jaynin Mimetes [ November 3rd, 2010, 10:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Romance of Tristan and Iseult (Joseph Bedier)
Arthur dies. Lancelot asks Guinevere to marry him. Guinevere refuses and enters a convent. Lancelot dies a holy hermit living in the woods, at last cleansed of his sins. Except for in the versions when he's mysteriously put to sleep until Arthur's return.

Shakespeare is pretty bad. :D But a lot of the terms are so archaic you don't even realize it. When I first read it I didn't even dream there was anything bad in it... :roll: but yeah, that's not a fair comparison. Except that they're both classics and both need to be taken with some prudence and the right perspective.
Author:  Neil of Erk [ November 4th, 2010, 1:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Romance of Tristan and Iseult (Joseph Bedier)
Vanya Katerina Jaynin wrote:
I have never heard of a version of Gareth and Lynette ending up dead... ever... Gareth goes to rescue Lyonesse and she slams the door in his face because she doesn't know who he is. Later she wants to marry him when she finds out he's a king's son but he isn't interested in a girl who only wants him if he ranks high enough so he marries her sister Lynette. Except for in one or two versions where Gareth is as shallow as Lyonesse and marries her. Gaheris, his brother marries the other sister.


In this version Lynoesse stiffs him while she knows that he's a prince, so he spitefully pursues her rather stupid sister.

Actually, this author kills nearly all the lovers except for Lancelot. He might as well die for all the pain he goes through...and Guinevere either dies, or Aurthur fires her.
Author:  Constable Jaynin Mimetes [ November 4th, 2010, 1:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Romance of Tristan and Iseult (Joseph Bedier)
I really need to know what version this is... I seriously have never heard of it. It's not Howard Pyle, it's not Thomas Malory, it's not Roger Lancelyn Green, and it's not anything random in between that I've read.
Author:  Andrew Amnon Mimetes [ November 6th, 2010, 4:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Romance of Tristan and Iseult (Joseph Bedier)
Quote:
The fourth brother, Agravaine has no story that I'm aware of. Sad. :(


(A little late, sorry :))

I'm sure one can be found. Just wait here. :D

eruheran
Author:  Andrew Amnon Mimetes [ November 6th, 2010, 4:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Romance of Tristan and Iseult (Joseph Bedier)
Apparently he does have a story, I just can't find the book or poem that tells it. :) But this page has some good info:

http://kingarthur.wikia.com/wiki/Agravain

He sounds like an interesting guy, but a bit too much like Mordred for my liking. :)

eruheran
Author:  Willow Wenial Mimetes [ November 6th, 2010, 9:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Romance of Tristan and Iseult (Joseph Bedier)
Agravain sounds aggravating. :D (Pardon me. I couldn't resist! ;) )
Author:  Constable Jaynin Mimetes [ November 6th, 2010, 10:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Romance of Tristan and Iseult (Joseph Bedier)
That's interesting. It seems to focus primarily on the Welsh Agravaine.

All I really know about him is that he and one of Gawaine's other brothers were forced to attend Guinevere's execution and they agreed to go only on the condition that they went unarmed and dressed as monks and Lancelot killed them accidentally when he rescued Guinevere and for that Gawaine convinced Arthur to go to war against him.
Author:  Andrew Amnon Mimetes [ November 7th, 2010, 8:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Romance of Tristan and Iseult (Joseph Bedier)
@WW: LOL!

@Jaynin: You really are a King Arthur expert, aren't you?

eruheran
Author:  Kiev Shawn [ November 7th, 2010, 8:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Romance of Tristan and Iseult (Joseph Bedier)
Eruheran, that's exactly what I was thinking. :)
Author:  Constable Jaynin Mimetes [ November 8th, 2010, 8:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Romance of Tristan and Iseult (Joseph Bedier)
I wouldn't say I'm an expert. But I know a lot of King Arthur. I was incredibly excited the day I managed to trace the Holy Grail from Joseph of Arimathea to Galahad without any missing sections. And man is that a tale. It's one of my favorite subjects. :D
Author:  Andrew Amnon Mimetes [ November 10th, 2010, 7:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Romance of Tristan and Iseult (Joseph Bedier)
Now THAT'S a story I want to hear...let me know when you publish your book. =)

eruheran
Author:  Airianna Valenshia [ November 11th, 2010, 10:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Romance of Tristan and Iseult (Joseph Bedier)
I'll wait to see your thoughts on ITB before I decide to read this or not Eruheran.
Author:  Constable Jaynin Mimetes [ November 11th, 2010, 12:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Romance of Tristan and Iseult (Joseph Bedier)
eruheran wrote:
Now THAT'S a story I want to hear...let me know when you publish your book. =)

eruheran


Hm... which one?

I think the Grail's one of the stories I wanted to write the most, but there are so many different things one can do with King Arthur even I forget. That's why I want to write the Great King Arthur Reference Book. Hmmm... I should start on that...
Author:  Willow Wenial Mimetes [ November 11th, 2010, 12:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Romance of Tristan and Iseult (Joseph Bedier)
Yes, you should. I would buy it and use it as a great help. I never can keep all that stuff straight. :D
Author:  Andrew Amnon Mimetes [ November 12th, 2010, 11:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Romance of Tristan and Iseult (Joseph Bedier)
@Jaynin: Well hurry up already =D

@Airianna: I'll wait to see your thoughts on ITB before I decide to read this or not Eruheran...might be a few weeks or so, I've got another one I'm reading first.

eruheran
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