Have you ever used a villain as a protagonist? Or, if not a villain, a character with villainous tendencies? Did this character change throughout the course of the story?

I've tried this. He didn't change much, but I kind of ended it on a bit of a cliffhanger. But it was a fun exercise. Have you tried it?

I haven't tried it yet but I am considering it.

I've never tried it myself, but I have read books and watched movies where the protag is a villain. I do have a supporting character right now with what you could call "villainous tendencies." I do plan for her to change, but not by the end of this current book.

What are your thoughts on having villain protagonists?

I do have a story in mind where the main character has villainous tendencies... But it is still in development and I probably won't write it any time soon.

I think a villain can be a good protagonist, especially if it is a sympathetic one. I was recently thinking about doing a story where I would show how the main character becomes a villain and potentially have it evolve into a redemption story towards the end.

I think it could be an interesting point of view, but I'm not sure what I think of it. I mean, would displaying a villain (or someone with villainous tendencies) as the "good guy," if you will, be the right thing to do? Is the protagonist then modeling a "good" example by being given that role? Just because he/she is a protagonist, would that mean that his/her example would be good one for younger readers. I know I'm still a "younger reader," and I often look up to protagonists which is the grounds for my thoughts.

On the other hand, I think redemption stories are very powerful, particularly when showing the power God has to work in and through a person. Even a broken person. Especially a broken one.

Sorry if I'm going all rabbit-traily. I tend to do such sometimes. Tell me if I should be silent.

I understand what you are saying. You definitely have to be careful when attempting something like this to make sure that you clearly show that the bad things that the character is doing are not something to be emulated. The issue that you can run into there though is how to make sure that your main character is both relatable and likable so that readers will want to continue to stick with them through the end. My thought process on this leans more toward a broken main character who gradually is redeemed throughout the course of the story. I feel like the main idea behind something like this is to create a character that readers are cheering for, someone that readers really want to see do the right thing when they are put to the test in the climax of the story.

Like I said, I'm not sure if I'm actually going to attempt this yet. I find it interesting though because it definitely poses a writing challenge, especially to those of us who wish to convey the Gospel through our writings.

*nods* I thought you meant something different. Yes, broken characters who rise through God's power are the ones we, as readers, can relate to the most. It's very hard to cheer for a perfect, heavenly character. *knows that from experience*

Yes, perfect characters are extremely difficult to relate to. It's hard to establish any sort of connection to them as a reader and invest anything of yourself in them emotionally. I think that when we see a character who is flawed find redemption from those flaws and overcome them it gives us a feeling that perhaps we can do the same. I think it encourages us to not give up the fight and to take heart. We can use that to show people the healing power of the Gospel as well. Christ is the master when it comes to redeeming people caught up in flaws, after all.

Agreed. I love that kind of character.

*applauds previous posts* Like Calista, I have a story in development with a protagonist who, although not exactly a villain, is by no means a heroine. I'm afraid my story will be slightly depressing though, because I want to show the evil in and around her for what it is- temporary pleasure that leads to death. I'm not sure how to do this without showing the misery gives her. While I don't want to shy away from the vileness of sin, I don't want my story to be full of her depression. How have those of you who have written a villain as a protagonist dealt with this? Or how have books presented this?

The first book that comes to mind is The Dark Wolf by JM Christian. Uh, the main character has been in the clutches of Ruval, the "bad guy." I'm not sure how much that would help, though, because he breaks the mental hold Ruval has over him early on in the book. Even so, it portrays the "vileness of sin" as you put it, all the while not being depressing. The character Sabria in the same book also would be a good example. Maybe even a better one.

The Echoes From the Edge Trilogy by Bryan Davis is another good example, if you've heard of that. Kelly would probably be an ideal example, especially in the first book. She's a broken girl...far from being a heroine, and sin is so prominent in her life. Then she meets Christ...and I guess you could figure what happens after that.

Hope that helps.

I have, yes. One thing about that, though, is that even though he is the Main Character, as in the primary character of the book, I never do anything from his POV. * grimaces * The main reason was that it did not work for the way I needed the story to go, especially on an emotional level. But the secondary reason is that it would have been a horrible and miserable book to read if it was done from his perspective.

And I think that is one problem with having a villain as a protagonist... typically, you're going to have to write a lot of the book from his POV. And villains... well, I know some fantasy villains are exceptions, but in my experience with real villains, they are not only evil, they are often also ugly and disgusting and dirty. And they think ugly and disgusting and dirty things. And if you as a writer have to write from inside the head of the ugly, disgusting, dirty villain, and the reader has to read from inside the head of the ugly, disgusting, dirty villain, it's just... ugly. And disgusting. And dirty. * grimace *

And depressing, like you guys have mentioned.

There's another story I have that also has a villain for protagonist, and it doesn't have that problem, because the whole point of the story is that the protagonist doesn't think she's doing any harm (how she could think that has a lot to do with the world she's in). And the point of the story is really about whether she is or not, and how it affects her.

It's tougher when the villain is actually... villainous.

I suppose when discussing a topic like this it's very important to clarify just what is meant by the term villain. I definitely agree that centering your story around someone who does truly vile things and has no remorse for them is both difficult and disturbing. However, to center a story around someone who does bad things but feels very conflicted about it could be interesting. It gives the writer a chance to tell a story that examines the conflict that goes on inside each and every person. Perhaps this is a character who desires to do the right thing but finds himself/herself doing the wrong thing time and time again. Perhaps they think that they are doing the right thing only to discover later that they have been deceived the whole time. I feel there is certainly potential for this type of character (it's been done before, after all) but it is something that has to be treated with care. A character who is unapologetically evil and remains that way will almost certainly be rejected by any reader.

Part of my series has the villain as the protagonist; what he does is 'clean' to his eyes, although not to others.

I agree on this one, writers can use conflict to relate to their readers.

And I agree on this too.

When a character doesn't know or think that what they are doing is wrong you really have the potential to, later on, show the horror of the realization of sin. You have the chance to show a character coming to the understanding that they have been engulfed in deception the whole time and they are in deep need of redemption as well as forgiveness.

If we define "protagonist" as the character the reader views the world through, I personally would not enjoy reading a book with a psychopathic protagonists. I've read books with chapters from that POV, and those chapters were enough! I can perhaps understand the reasoning, if such a section is the only means by which to obtain information critical to the storyline. However, I have a hard time seeing how an entire novel from the POV of someone who views all other people as insects can be glorifying to God. We are to think on what is true, noble, right, pure, lovely, etc... Immersing myself in the thoughts of an irredeemable, conscienceless villain would not help me, either to write or to read.

I really hate to set solid lines, because so much depends on individual liberty and reader discretion, but I just can't seem to find a reason to do this. Perhaps to show the ugliness of sin? But that could easily become an excuse to write anything one wanted, and besides, there are other better, less immersive ways to do it. They perhaps require more skill, but they are nonetheless just as effective.

Can you think of a reason a story might need to be written this way?

Aside from that, if you're going to write an anti-hero (See definition http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antihero) or a villain as your protagonist, I don't think you necessarily have to redeem them. In fact, that can quickly become a highly cliched storyline. But it is important to show the consequences of their actions. In the real world, sins have repercussions. Be careful not to create a fantasy world where they do not.

Any thoughts on this?

I wouldn't encourage it.

Once I attended a sort of lecture where the speaker (pardon the lack of names, it was a while ago and the specifics elude me) spoke about writing. He said there were several types of stories. One type was where the good and the evil are clearly set out and separated, and good triumphs over evil. In another kind, the good and bad are still clearly set out, but bad triumphs instead. The third one I remember he called 'twisted'. This is where the main characters do bad things, but also do good things. He gave Hunger Games as an example.

I think that have a villain as the protagonist would probably fall into the twisted category-unless you wriote him absolute psychopathic and he totally loses in the end, but the readers will still have the villain in their heads as the main character.

If I was to place a villain as one of my main characters, it would be entirely in third person and probably with lots of other characters that would refute the villain's side.

I've never written a story with an outright villain as my protagonist.

However, nearly all of my main characters are what I suppose can be classified as anti-heroes. They do bad things (not necessarily hideous things, such as mass murder and torture; but things that are wrong regardless), but they ultimately have good intentions.

But they struggle. They struggle with vengeance, they struggle with anger, with hate, with sorrow, with guilt, with temptation. They're not perfect. And I like those characters better. Who can relate to a perfect character? No one! (Unless they're tricking themselves into believing they're amazing and never do anything wrong.)

Would I enjoy a story with a villain as the protagonist? Perhaps, unless he or she was the type of villain who commits genocide, tortures people, rapes people, etc. I have no desire to be seeing the world through the eyes of someone like that. If it was a villain who was more subtle; trickery, deceit, quick and calculating... then perhaps.

But I always - always - enjoy a story where the main character does bad things and fails to live up to the stereotype of a 'perfect person' or a 'good character for Christians to emulate'.

Why? Because I'm not perfect. And I know that 'perfect' doesn't exist. I want to read about people like me; who struggle, and fail, and do bad things and - sometimes - don't even feel remorse (until, perhaps, much later on).

That's my two bits. Let me add that I haven't read any of the other posts yet, so I apologise if I seem to be copying someone else's thoughts, or something similar.