I'm not sure if this is the right place to start this discussion or not, but I'll give it a try.

I see my literary journey in transition from writing to supporting other writers. You may have seen the contest I posted. Someone from HolyWorlds commented that the stories I chose were a bit too edgy ... worldly ... various different words could be used. I accept that criticism, but I had my reasons for doing what I did.

With that said, what I did doesn't seem to be working very well. So, I'm interested in some discussion on the topic.

Are you asking about whether or not your stories "work," or...? I want to help, but I'm not entirely sure what I'm helping with. (Also I may need to move this thread, but I won't until I'm sure what we're discussing. )

Yeah, I realized my post was probably very vague. Um. Where to begin?

My literary journey has seen its ups and downs, its successes and failures. For a time my attitude was, admittedly, "It's all about me." I hope I've grown. I still want to be involved in literature, but I don't really care about promoting my own writing anymore. I've been financially blessed, and so I've been considering using that to help writers. After all, I support writers by going to the store and buying their books. Is it really any different to give more direct support? And I think I would enjoy it more to be in a conversation with the writers I'm supporting.

The question is, how best do I do that? My idea was what I called the Aristocracy Project. Basically, I planned to run writing contests and pay the winners. But it's proving difficult to get the project off the ground. It's funny in a way, isn't it, that I can't even give away money and make it work?

Additionally, my idea had been that I would award "ranks" based on how well I liked writers, with the idea that the higher ranks would win larger awards.

But one objection I got was that some of the writers I was involving at the entry level (my "knave" level) were a bit profane. My point was that I saw potential in their writing and I want to nurture them, witness to them. I've done it before with some (albeit limited) success.

So, I'm basically looking for an open discussion. What would be the best way to do this? Does that help or am I still being unclear?

Thanks for elaborating!

Two thoughts come immediately to mind--perseverance and creativity.

If hosting contests or organizing your Aristocracy Project is what you have your heart set on, then you'll need to persevere at it. The only way for your project to grow is for you to stick with it. Start with a small contest--don't set your sights too high at first--and see it through. Then do another. And another. Keep promoting and reaching new people. If you keep hosting contests or promoting your project, it will grow, but it won't if you stop after the first run because there wasn't much participation. Promote, promote, promote! And keep it running.

Also, while cash prizes are wonderful, they can sometimes be perceived as a bit hokey--or make you look too desperate. You might actually get more interest if you offered a prize with a cash value (i.e., Amazon Gift Cards--for some reason gift cards are not as hokey as cash) or another object with value to a writer--Scrivener software, writing curriculum, etc. Support two indies at once and pay an indie designer to redo their website. In fact, offering something of value to the writer might enrich their career more than straight cash. You might also find you get more interest if you offer a valuable object instead of cash... I know I would be more interested in a contest that offered the OYAN curriculum as the prize than a contest that offered the same in cash. Even though the value is the same, the perception is different, so you might find that your contest has more traction if you offer something other than straight cash.

Another thing to consider is that many contests offer a publishing opportunity in addition to their cash/item prize. Being published on a blog or in a magazine, having your work critiqued by a professional, etc. These things are good incentives and lend credibility to a contest--as opposed to a contest run by some unknown guy who apparently just wants to read your stuff. No offense to you, but that's how it's going to appear to the writers you're trying to attract. If you want to see your contest or project grow, you may consider looking for a publishing opportunity you can offer. You can organize anthologies and fund the publication of them; you could contract with a high-traffic blog and have them publish the entries, if you don't want to build a blog audience yourself. You could offer to pay for the cover design and formatting of a novel to be self-published. You could ask professional writers to donate a critique. And so on. Just something to consider.

Which brings me to another point... What are your credentials? No offense to you, but as I was reading about your Aristocracy Project, the first thought that came to my mind, as a writer, was "What right does he have to be critiquing my work and mentoring me?" The fact of the matter is, when you set yourself up with a contest or a program that invites writers to come to you and invest time working with your system, you need to give them a reason to value your time, even if your system is free. Do you have a degree? Publishing credits? Years of experience are not enough. You need to offer the writers something of value if you want them to come to you, and if they do not perceive your critique as having any value over their peers', then they have no reason to put themselves through your system. They also need a reason to trust you if you are to mentor them. Why should they trust a random writer with no credentials to mentor them in their writing?

That doesn't mean you need credentials to mentor writers--far from it! There are still days I feel like I have no right to be mentoring anybody, despite the fact that I have a credential list a quarter-mile long. I still don't feel I have enough credentials to set myself up as a service and ask people to come to me. But I still mentor--I just do it as a friend, for free, as God brings opportunities.

I think the thing to remember is that you don't need to host contests or run a complicated project to mentor writers; in fact, that's not necessarily even the best way to mentor them. The best way is to simply join the community. Make friends with writers, hang where they are, and be there for them.

I have a beloved screenwriting mentor, a professional filmmaker in L.A. who has donated countless hours of his time to work with me. But the interesting--and wonderful--thing about our relationship is that we came together by chance of God's, simply because we crossed paths on a screenwriting forum. This same man spends a lot of time sharing his expertise on the forums for all to benefit; after I'd worked with him on the forums a few times, he made me a casual offer to give me more "homework" exercises via email, and it developed from there. In a very large way I owe my career to him, and I've been calling him my mentor for some time, but it was never an "official" relationship. There was no system, no contracts, no payments. Just a professional offering to help a writer who had happened to cross his path.

You're on Holy Worlds, one of the greatest mission fields for this kind of work. Holy Worlds is teeming with young writers who are in desperate need of encouragement and support, both of their spirit and of their craft. Go comment on some of their world-building. Maybe even pick a world subforum or two to "adopt"; comment on every post and poke the writer when they don't post anything new for awhile. Go into the Fireside and critique some excerpts. Offer to proofread some manuscripts for free; remember that your financial stability means you can give of your time without asking payment in return, which is in many cases more valuable than giving money. Maybe you can even befriend some writers and become PM buddies, keeping tabs on their progress and and encouraging them daily. You could always take on a project or contest here, on the forums. The opportunities for mentoring writers in a place like this are endless.

If you still want to give money, remember that you can donate to or invest in resources that writers will benefit from, instead of giving cash prizes. Pardon the shameless plug, but if you were to donate to place like Holy Worlds, you would be benefiting hundreds of writers. You could also keep an eye out for indie writers and filmmakers who are doing fundraising campaigns, and so on. Keep your eyes open--be creative. There are many opportunities for you to invest your time and resources into writers. Just keep looking.

Thanks for your comments. You have some excellent ideas.



I thought I was starting small.

Of course there is no science to this, but I had hoped that if I could get 100 people to look at the contest, 10 would participate. I don't remember the count, but it's pushing 200 hits and only 2 have accepted. So, I guess the odds are worse than I figured for getting it started ... more on credentials later.



That's a great idea.



That's a perfectly reasonable question, and one I tried to answer by posting my CV. Publishing, as with many businesses, is a "what have you done for me lately?" industry. Depressing but true.

I've been published in fiction and nonfiction, print and online. In the fiction market I reached the point where I was being paid semi-pro rates, and in the non-fiction market I was getting requests to travel and speak. But I burned out and took a few years off - maybe a mistake and my burden to bear - but it seems few people know me anymore.

In the speculative world I was part of the editorial team for the DoubleEdge community (MindFlights, Haruah, Raygun). Sadly, they're all gone now. My colleagues in that community also seem to have burned out. I'm glad to see Bewildering Stories & EveryDay Fiction are still going strong - the other places I used to hang out ... and I'm in the process of reconnecting there as well.

So, I'm not Tolkien ... not even Theodore Beale, but I'm not a novice either.

With that said, I find your question an interesting one. When I was first trying to break into writing I was willing to do anything and everything for free (within certain moral limits of course). Even if the most obscure, non-paying e-zine was willing to publish me I jumped at the chance. Exposure is worth gold in this industry. That's why the reaction somewhat surprised me. Almost 200 hits saw my offer to pay, and there are almost no takers. Hmm.

When I started out I did some research. How many writers are there? Millions. What percentage ever get paid to write? About 20%. What percentage manage to eek out a living? About 5%. What percentage get a book with a big house? About 1%. How many become a name like Tolkien or Rowling? About 0.001% That's off the top of my head. I didn't actually pull out my old research, so I may be a bit off. But you get the point. The numbers are depressing. Depending on what your goals are, you need to seize the opportunities when they come.

Anyway, I realize it will take time to re-establish myself. Still, it produces several sighs from me.



I'll send the question back to you. What are your credentials? I hadn't heard of HolyWorlds until recently. What publishing successes have your members had?



You don't have to apologize. It's part of the business. I'd be willing to consider it, but now you get to learn about the pitfalls of patrons.
Money means control. Honestly, that's why I started off solo. If money is involved, I need to be comfortable with how it's used, but it would make me feel bad to get in someone else's business. You have your vision of what Holyworlds should be, and you don't want me messing with that vision.

Still, as I said, I'm willing to talk.

FYI, one thing that provides a level of comfort is to establish a "school of thought". I am what is known as a "Confessional Lutheran", and I am involved with the arts community at Concordia University in Chicago - yes, I actually donate money to them - simply because I know we share a common "school of thought". I'm comfortable that they will spend my money in a way consistent with my beliefs, and so I don't have to play watchdog over everything they do. I've started talking to them about getting more involved, and maybe that will be enough for me ... or maybe I need to be satisfied with whatever that becomes.

I'm very glad my thoughts were of some use to you.

If you're asking about Holy Worlds' credentials, you're asking the wrong question. Holy Worlds is a community and at the moment isn't anything truly significant by itself, but in my mind that's not the issue. What's important is the writers who currently congregate here. If you want to invest in writers' lives, this is one (of many!) great place to find them and connect with them. Some of our writers are established and some are not, so I suppose it depends on what level of writer you wish to invest in. Personally I believe investing in young, unpublished writers and helping them grow to the point of publication is a wonderful ministry, but if you are looking for more established writers, you may find some here. If not, keep looking. Try another writing forum, perhaps NaNoWriMo. All I'm saying is--if you want to invest in writers, don't overlook the community of them that's right under your feet.

As for investing in Holy Worlds itself, I absolutely understand the element of control and theological concern. I would have two recommendations for you. One is to simply become involved in the community. If you become a part of our family and like what we're doing, you may wish to donate. However, there is also no reason you need to "blind donate" the money for generic use; instead you may prefer to donate to a specific project or contest. In the near future I will have some tech work projects for which I need to pay a designer, and I would be able to tell you exactly what the money would be used for. Also, we often host contests to try and encourage our writers, but finding unique and affordable prizes can be difficult. If you enjoy contests, you may enjoy helping with prizes.

This may be an idiotic question, but did you share a link to your contest here on HW? Another thing to consider is the terms of your contest. Was it too difficult or obscure for the audience you promoted it to?

That's fine. I'm having fun here, so I'll just keep poking around. I actually have offered to work with a few people here already - not in terms where I'm going to teach them, but just as someone to bounce ideas off of. I'm not overloaded, so at the moment I'm still open to bouncing ideas about with people.



I didn't post a link because it would have felt like I was using you ... "Hi, this is my first post and I want you to all join my contest."

But, if you're open to hosting some of my contest ideas here, we can talk. PM me.

Oops. Sorry. I was posting in a rush and forgot to add that I'd also be willing to consider the design project you mentioned. So, we can discuss that in a PM.

*laughs* By all means, share a link to your contest! You can post one in this thread as well as in Quests and/or Writing Discussion. Maybe you can get some HWers to join that way.

I will absolutely PM you, although I will wait to discuss the redesign project until I have numbers. Our designer is running some tests, so in the near future I should have concrete project details.

Thanks so much--and I'm delighted to hear that you're here to stay!