surprised by Joy? I wonder how many people know what that means...in C.S. Lewis' book called Surprised By Joy he talked about fleeting moments where he was flooded with desire for something, something that was unfathomably better than anything imaginable, but just out of reach. He couldn't ever figure out what it was before the whole sensation would disappear.
Here is a lengthy quote where he describes the sensation himself (where there are ..... I've omitted something to make it shorter, you can find the whole quote though, if you want it, and you'll have more description):

“I call it Joy....The first is itself the memory of a memory...there suddenly arose in me without warning, and as if from a depth not of years but of centuries, the memory of that earlier morning at the Old House when my brother had brought his toy garden into the nursery. It is difficult to find words strong enough for the sensation which came over me...It was a sensation, of course, of desire; but desire for what?...Before I knew what I desired, the desire itself was gone, the whole glimpse... withdrawn, the world turned commonplace again, or only stirred by a longing for the longing that had just ceased... In a sense the central story of my life is about nothing else... The quality common to the three experiences... is that of an unsatisfied desire which is itself more desirable than any other satisfaction. I call it Joy, which is here a technical term and must be sharply distinguished both from Happiness and Pleasure. Joy (in my sense) has indeed one characteristic, and one only, in common with them; the fact that anyone who has experienced it will want it again... I doubt whether anyone who has tasted it would ever, if both were in his power, exchange it for all the pleasures in the world. But then Joy is never in our power and Pleasure often is.”
― C.S. Lewis, Surprised by Joy

So, I'm not the only one other than Lewis to have this sensation, am I?

YES! It's so weird...

And it seems just out of reach at times... a thousand little wires, spaghetti noodles, charged with electricity, rigid and extended towards you, ready to jump the inch-long gap between them and your finger and just zap you with it.

It's so hard to define, nay impossible. But it's amazing.

Lewis says in another work, that this is what the Bible talks about when it says God has a secret name for us... that He'll be the fulfilling of all these mysterious desires and feelings, our truest identity.

I know! And yet it feels so natural in some way...



Exactly, though my image of it is a little different, that's definitely the same thing! It completely consumes the meaning of "desire" and "so close" and "unreachable"!



Yes, exactly!



I'm not surprised, though I hadn't connected it to our secret name, I had connected it to the fact that we desire much that cannot be fulfilled until the final Consummation of the new covenant - Ooohh, I can't wait!

*is very VERY happy that he isn't the only one that has had the sensation*

I think I've experienced this a few different times. Sometimes I know what I'm reaching for, so it may be slightly different in those cases.



YES. You know it's just out of reach, but so much better, so much more than what you have now...but you can't get there yet, and it's unbearable! I usually end up crying, whether from the happiness or the sadness I don't know.

Yeah, it sounds like you've had the same thing at least sometimes, while having something similar the other times! It's crazy how much you can want something without knowing what exactly it is...sometimes it comes when I'm thinking of huge, vast wildernesses and put myself in the position of a settler with his family...but that's not exactly what it is I want, it just appeals to something and helps awaken the deeper (or deepest? desire...

Exactly!!! It's like the one thing that defines you. When the whiff of it that passes your nose is especially strong, it makes you think of all the other times when you verged on it (Like a dejavu), but never actually reaching it.

Right! It's The Thing, and it's unfathomably good and desirable - so much so that the desire for it itself seems like bliss compared to merely enjoying what we can while here on Earth...it reminds you that you are not at home...yet. =D And dejavu is eerily similar to it....though it's also extremely different...a fleeting sensation that is undecipherable (at least sometimes dejavu is).

Amen. Precisely.

And even now, in this thread, I'm feeling it, and enjoying the search, enjoying the pursuit, unable to even fathom what it would be like to find the unknown object of my pursuit.

Really? Awesome! I think I had a briefer than normal flash of it while I was thinking of posting this thread. (or else when I was thinking about it, and then that led to this thread, or something).
And I'm also enjoying the pursuit, it is sooo awesome to think on these sorts of things!

I think David Crowder touches on this when he sings:
"From wherever spring arrives to heal the ground...from wherever searching comes
(the look itself a trace of what we're looking for).
So be quiet now and wait." Here is Our King - the David Crowder* Band *loves this lyric in a "Joy"ous sense*

Yes... I always get that same chill when I hear "Aslan is on the move".

Yes, I think so, in very brief times (usually three to five seconds). I usually get a slight shiver up my spine, am hit by the beauty of some word or poetic phrase, or look at some beautiful scenery and almost feel tears in my eyes.

Yes...that gives me a chill as well, though I'm not quite sure that it was Joy...Hmmm...maybe it was a part of Joy, hence the chill.



Interesting! Again, I've been deeply affected by words (mostly through David Crowder's singing), and experienced a sort of Joy through it...though it's not quite as powerful as the one I get just from...well, thinking, I guess. But I'm sure people experience it different ways, and I can see how you'd get it from words or, especially, scenery.

I'm just sitting here, nodding to what everyone's saying. I like how we've all experienced it in different ways, with different things connecting us to joy. Very cool

It seems like it's connected to beauty...beautiful thoughts, words, scenery, and whatever else we think of as beautiful, but it's also so much more than beauty. Beauty seems to trigger joy, though.

I wonder if people who aren't Christian experience this joy. We're all saying it's related to knowing that the thing we're reaching for will be attainable sometime, just not yet. I often feel joy when thinking of eternity with God and other Christians. Without that aspect, it would seem empty.

It's like the feeling you get when you save up for something for a long time. Sometimes when we actually get what we want, we're almost disappointed that the feeling of satisfaction isn't as great as the desire we've felt for so long. But I think whatever we're reaching for in moments of joy will be far more than we desire

Very good thoughts, Akembra.



I was noticing that, too, it's really neat to see how others have experienced it, and how it takes shape in people - I think it might even show a bit about the person...that is, what triggers Joy for them...if that makes sense. =P



Exactly, couldn't have said it better myself!
So connecting this with your first thought - it seems like since we appreciate beauty in different ways, we also attain, nay, are bombarded by Joy through different things - though they are all awesome or beautiful in some way.
And you're right...after Joy, the beautiful (whatever it is, insert beautiful item) seems like a shadow of how good and beautiful the mere desire we had for The Thing was.



I was thinking of this too, yesterday! I'm pretty sure that at least some of them have, since they also are humans, and humans were made to glorify God and be in His presence (and I think that this thing we're calling Joy is one of the strongest times that that "primeval" desire takes hold of us). But for those that do not know God and will not know God, that Joy would be a much sadder thing, even depressing, because they will (I think) be able to feel that this Thing that they are desiring is eternally unreachable - completely impossible for them to acquire. It sounds like pure torture.
So yeah, I agree that Joy is empty without the knowledge that we'll spend eternity with God and His people--it would be horrible for someone to experience it and know that they shall never find the Cause of that desire.



That's right! I think that that is the way it goes with desire--->satisfaction in this fallen world...the desire promises more than what the satisfaction can deliver. But since Joy is (in my opinion) one of the closest things we have to a taste of perfection, and (again in my opinion) is a perfect inherent desire planted in us by God, it makes sense that we will actually receive much more satisfaction from fulfilling that desire than we could ever hope to get from our faulty earthly connection to it .

I hope that made sense...awesome thoughts Akembra, you made me think on one of my favorite topics.

Great conversation guys... I just have to nod my head to everything said here. Only on Holy Worlds would this be possible.

Yes, HW is a wonderful place...and this has been an awesome discussion - hopefully more people can join in on it. And thanks all of you that have had input, I've learnt a lot about this sensation from hearing others' experiences with it.

This discussion is really beautiful, guys.

I have experienced joy. But it seems like it's been a long time...miss it.

I agree, I've really enjoyed the discussion here.

I know the feeling. I hope you're able to experience it again. It's so hard to induce it...and the best instances of it aren't induced--they just come.

Yeah, it's really unpredictable. After posting on Friday, I felt this low-level Joy all day, which was a new experience. It was really energizing, but I had nothing to put that energy into, so I just sat for a bit with a slight smile on my face.



*still nodding* I had been thinking not many non-Christians would experience Joy...but then something you said reminded me of another of Lewis' books, Mere Christianity. At the beginning, it talks about an inherent moral law where we all unconsciously recognize there is good and evil. For instance, no matter what beliefs you hold to, we all tend to want the "fair" or "right" thing to happen. If we're guilty of doing something unfair or wrong, we don't argue that there isn't right and wrong, we make excuses (even if a person believes there isn't right or wrong, they can never be wholly consistent in holding to that). Joy seems to be like this moral law; it's inherent, a gift from God. We all want Joy and know it's possible to experience it; it just seems more complete as a Christian.

I started thinking of a scale, with happiness on one end and joy on the other. Most people just know they want to be happy, but they want it to last. That's why people acquire so much - wealth, things, etc. ... except that's the exact opposite of how you reach Joy! The world tries to reach happiness (the lowest level of the scale) by fulfilling desire, but Joy comes from having the desire unfulfilled (at least right now). The world always rejects God's perfect plan for us...thankfully He left a Guidebook

Right, I also think it's at least more or less inherent in people as a whole. Yeah, a gift, and the ironic part of it is that our twisted world has made that gift something that can bring depression to those that do not have Hope, which seems to be the backbone of functioning when you "lose" the sensation of Joy.

Whoa...I hadn't thought of it from that angle...You've hit the nail on the head again. When you say this, it reminds me that it is almost always a image of simplicity that brings the sensation of Joy around, such as scenery and the idea of living as God had intended us to in His creation - it's (well, I realize that other people have different things that trigger Joy, so this likely applies in some way to those things as well) way down in our roots spiritually, and, as children of God, it is also in our future!!! *is extremely excited for the future to "arrive"*

Yeah...so sad for those who don't have hope. I've also noticed that all of the fruits of the Spirit are connected in to Joy. Someone told me that the fruits of the Spirit are like different facets of the same jewel. Hope isn't one, but maybe included in faith? (Faith is being sure of what we hope for, and certain of what we do not see = Hebrews 11:1)...and I feel so loved, and so peaceful when experiencing Joy, and we have to exercise patience and faith in waiting to fulfill the desire.



*nods* I'm so excited too...we need a trampoline or bouncy house in here! *pulls out a giant trampoline*

Yeah, it's a stark reminder of just how bad off we are without God's grace and mercy.
That is an interesting thought...I can see how some of them are connected, maybe Joy (the sensation) is somehow connected with them! I can see how patience, for example, is necessary to not get too upset when Joy disappears from our (overloaded!) sensory boards. And love for God is necessary to have the hope... *ponders*
Yeah, I think hope is sort of a by-product of faith and vicie versie (something like that anyway), at any rate, they go closely together. Yes, I feel loved when I experience it too! Exactly, I sorta unknowingly reiterated what you said about patience, but I like the way you put it better.



Yes! *jumps really high on trampoline*

By the way...*hops back off for a minute* I learned recently of a similar (but very different) sensation called (by a poet-guy whose name I disremember) "spots of time", basically they are times that you remember from childhood (or maybe just long ago) that include the memory of some awe that you experienced from something that you wouldn't necessarily be so excited about anymore...it sort of momentarily rejuvenates your awe for that thing.
I have at least one experience of this, I remember the drive past fields and forest to my Grandparents' house used to be so exciting to look at, it's as if the colors were brighter back then or something (but I think it's just how I saw things when I was four or whatever!).
The difference between these "spots of time" and Joy is that those spots point backward to something awesome that you can identify and you try to hold onto the memory lest you stop re-experiencing it; Joy, on the other hand, points forward to something awesome that you can't identify and you really should try to forget about the sensation if you want it to come back.

Have you remembered any "spots of time" like that in addition to experiencing Joy? If so, can you see these differences between the experiences?

I was going to post about something like this the other day!! I couldn't define how it was different from Joy, exactly...but your post explains it really well! I couldn't have said it better! We keep thinking the EXACT same things... It's creepy but awesome at the same time!

We used to go to Florida every other summer or so when I was younger, which included visiting Disney World. Later, after we couldn't do that as often, I'd get dreams as if I was a little kid and getting super excited to go to Disney again. I'd wake up and feel disappointed that thinking about going again wasn't quite as magical as it used to be. The same thing happened with Christmas...anticipating opening presents and seeing family...I still enjoy the holiday very much, but it was better when I was younger.

I know! It's creepy in a non-scary way.
I'll admit that I probably at least paraphrased the lecture I heard on Lewis that touched on Joy and "spots of time", but thank you! I'm glad I was able to word it clearly.

Yes, that sounds just like it, it's like importing emotions from your past (only you seem to have done it in a real dream, while it happened to me in a day dream )!

Oooh! All so true! I've so experienced that...

Yes, in a non-scary way!

Another good way to phrase it - "importing emotions from your past" - only it intensifies them, or exaggerates them, as well.

In my youth group today, we did "sharing and caring", where you share about how God is moving in your life. The conversation slowly shifted towards Joy, and I dislike public speaking at any level, but I shared a bit of what we've been discussing here. I love it when different areas of my life connect like that

That is a good point...though I don't know for sure that they are exaggerated or intensified, I imagine that you're right and they are...maybe sort of magnified so we can "see" them better?



Oh, that's awesome! I'm glad you were able to share about it, I've not had the opportunity to really talk about it much in person with anyone, but I have an idea of how cool it'd be. And I know just what you mean about different parts of your life connecting.

Yeah, something like that. It usually feels more exciting, etc. in the dreaming/remembering than I really experienced.



I don't know that I was very coherent about it, haha, but I got parts of it across, like CS Lewis' definition of Joy, and the scale of happiness to Joy, and how it doesn't really seem sensible but it's true. Yeah, sometimes everything just comes together like a puzzle. God is working all the time, even in the little things.

Yeah, that's interesting!



I can see myself doing a horrible job of trying to explain it, so I think it sounds like you did good!
Yes, it's amazing how God has made us and the rest of his creation to fit together so well--even when it's whacked like it is now. :awe:

Thanks
*nods* especially when it's messed up like it is now. If we can still tell that God's plan hasn't been completely perverted, in the midst of the world trying its hardest to do the exact opposite of His will, then how much clearer and better will it be when we are all working towards fulfilling God's purposes? :excited:

Exactly! The very thought has come close to inducing Joy several times before. :alsoexcited:

Yes! I was feeling that, but I didn't know how to express it...we should have a new smiley called Joy.

Yeah, I know the feeling.
Yes we should! Except by definition it would be insufficient.

Heh, true. I didn't think of that.
I keep forgetting to pick up a copy of Surprised by Joy at the library! This discussion made me want to read it. *puts on to-do list*

Yeah. But hey, if it could be, its amazingness would be greatly diminished, so it's good that it can't be described.
Ohh you need to, yes! You might try getting an audio version, if you like audio books (that's how I ingested it).

comes close, though. Or a mixture of , , , , and .

Yeah, and don't forget:

Yeah, I thought was pretty close, if I had to pick only one. Sometimes it does include or since we haven't found whatever we're reaching for yet... but overall it ends like It's such a complex feeling/experience.

Yes... 's code also alludes to how death comes before our true happiness.

Exactly; but we can be happy in death knowing we'll finally reach Joy's source (if we're Christians).

Yes.

I'M BACK!! For a day The computer's been occupied, and now I have a week of camp.
BUT! I have finally gotten a copy of Surprised by Joy and have started it. It's good so far (I've only read the first few chapters); I find it interesting that CS Lewis remembers Joy (or similar) moments from his earliest childhood. I was older than he was when I first experienced Joy.

At least you were back for a day--looking forward to your return!

Yes! It's an awesome book. Yeah it is interesting-and it shows just how big an impact it was on him for him to remember it for so long and so clearly.