Mods, feel free to move this, if you need. I was conflicted about where to put it, and it didn't seem like it fit in writing discussions.

Fairytales were not sweet bedtime stories you told your children. Once upon a time, in an age not so far away, they were dark tales that made little attempt to avoid frightening their listeners. They contained witches who ate children, wolves that prowled dark forests and got hacked up by little girls, goblins, trolls, and of course, evil stepmothers bent on making their step children’s lives miserable.

Fast forward a bit, and we see the tales collected by the Brothers Grimm take on a new persona, largely due to the Disney company. Now the stories were “safer” for children, and much more palatable for the adult audience who went with their children to either watch the films, or read the stories to them.

But once more culture is reversing the tales of fairy land. Movies like Snow White and the Huntsmen, Jack the Giant Killer (still in the works), Hansel and Gretel (still in the works), Red Riding Hood, and so forth, return us to the days of dark fairy tales.

I have been doing stewing on all of this for quite some time, having researched many of the upcoming films being scheduled in the fairy tale realm. In a discussion not too long ago, a friend and I discussed some of my thoughts on the subject. The conversation was very interesting, and that got me thinking, ‘What do my fantasy loving HWers think on this subject?’ ‘Have they even noticed the trend?’.

So, what is everyone’s thoughts on this? Are you in favor of the reversal, or do you think the movies are going even darker than the old tales with their creative license? I mean, the old tales were not about a werewolf killing his mother and trying to turn his daughter into a werewolf like himself. The books were not about a grown up brother and sister duo trying to rid the world of witches so that no other child would experience the trauma they themselves did.

And why the sudden fascination? Is it in part due to our culture’s renewed interest in the world of vamps and werewolves? Perhaps it is because we, as a culture, are reveling in dark tales more and more, so it is natural that we take some of our favorite old tales and place them on steroids.

*awaits the interesting conversations and thoughts she hopes to have flood this thread *

I think to some extent it's deeper and spiritual. But let me first address some of your points and questions as best I can...

I am in favor of going and sticking with most traditions in a culture. Not all but most. So I am in favor of it because mainly a nice happy fairy tale is fine but its innocence is a false reality. And I think that the Brothers Grimm etc. taught us lessons about ourselves as people and our capabilities as people. Notice also there is a different reversal:
Fairy tales going dark and vampires going from Count Dracula/demonic to Edward/nice things. I think a prof at Calvin College rightly said this about the vampire trend, "It's a search for salvation in the blood of someone other than Christ." And for the fairy tales there is a sense I think that it's positive and negative, more on this later.



Why the sudden fascination? Because we are a cynical people. We see the world as a screwed up place, no matter what Oprah says to the contrary or what Christian apologists say about people's view of man's nature. We see the world as filled with problems - the debt crisis (which my generation will probably not see the end of), genocides in other countries, a president that is hated on, a slew of recent stories on kidnapping and murders in the US - we are cynical and Hollywood/publishing industry focuses on this. To some extent it's fine to show the werewolves that we as people are, the Jekyll and Hyde complex we have, but on the other hand the fixation on it without a redeeming quality, without Christ becomes tragic and stupid.. So why the sudden fascination? I would say that we have trivialized evil and thus trivialize it some more in these films. We have decided to some extent to meditate on our other half. But the main reason is that we lack Joy. We have become so cynical and lacking in any hope that we manifest it in culture.
Now, caveats: this is not a tirade for weird, happy-laughy movies and books.

So, in conclusion of this long and rather winded and probably confusing rant: I am in favor of the twist because to some extent it portrays a reality, in an imagined world, as it's screwed up. But on the other hand most Hollywood films are too cynical and lack Joy.

At this point, I'm not sure whether the "dark fairy tale" trend is anything more than people trying to cash in on the Twilight craze. The old tales were just as dark, though perhaps less graphic in some ways. The darkness itself is not necessarily a problem, unless it has a bad message, rather than using darkness to point to the light.

^ this.


Though I'd argue Twilight is simply a happier version of the vampire mythos, which is a truly beautiful mythos indeed.

Let me rephrase here. My question has nothing to do with the Brothers Grimm. I am a lover of fairy tales, so the darkness portrayed in their tales is not an issue for me.

My question is more about the darkness we are seeing now. The twists to the story of Red Riding Hood. The twists to Hansel and Gretel- we aren't talking about Grimm anymore. The fairy tale stories we see now have little similarity to the Grimm fairy tales.

And, as a side note, I haven't given my opinion yet. I like hearing other people's thoughts before I bring my own to the table. So, since it's my thread I feel like I can do that.

I agree, Jonathan, on the "cash in on Twilight" idea. Everyone is trying to pull money from the Twilight following.

Cashing in on Twilight is smart business in my mind, or a smart idea.

Ahh I see. I know you were not referring to them specifically I was just using them as an example. But the far-removal may not be as far removed. For the culture in which the originals were written it is possible that they were seen as being as extreme as these recent ones.
But in light of the rephrasing, I still think it's good to some extent but not a totally good thing. I must think some more on this so I am a bit more coherent, just wanted my initial thought out there since when I write them down they become more crisp.

I'm not too fond of the new trend. There has been a sort of progression with every revision of the stories.

If you look at the stories as told by Grimm, they avoid certain issues but still have a fear factor more than Disney (i. e. the folk story of Rapunzel had the witch noticing Rapunzel was pregnant rather than noticing something she said).
With the Disney style, they take away much of the darkness but still give the character a virtuous demeanor so the story can keep its meaning.
The new, darkened style does have more of the original fear factor, but it loses the truth of character. Snow White lacks the fair virtue that made her 'the fairest'. Red isn't trying to save her grandmother, she just wants to be with her boyfriend. I don't know where they're going with Jack's story, but they've already done a bad guy twist for that story.
Our world is darker than Disney told us, but this style isn't giving us anything to do about it. The original stories were of normal people in abnormal circumstances who prevailed because they were willing to do what was right. Not because they were ninjas, or because they were in love. I agree with Jon. It seems like Hollywood is just following the Twilight theme of story where the MC wins simply because they're the MC.

*nods * They were, actually. The Grimm Brothers actually toned some things down when they went to publish, due to the culture in which they lived.

So in comparison its an equivalent sense of extreme. And at the same time its extreme as compared to the originals but for the cultures they are fairly equivalent?

And already we are off to a good start with the three people who have posted.

Jazz, I really like what you said here. I think you have a strong point about how the characters then and now are being portrayed to us.

Sidenote: There is also a movie coming out from the point of the witch in Sleeping Beauty. It's called Maleficent.


I prefer dark movies to cheery happy ones. Sure, fluff is nice, but the world isn't fluffy at all, and I don't want to waste my time with saccharine, feel-good twaddle. The way Disney had mauled the faerie tales was just atrocious, and as cutesy as it all is, it's kind of a waste of time. Entertainment should NEVER be mindless.


I like my entertainment to grapple with difficult issues, timeless themes, and a good storyline. Lord of the Rings comes to mind. Sure there's a happy ending, and that's great, I'm not against happy endings. But there's a whole lot of darkness, and struggle, and pain and loss to be endured first before there IS a peace, and even then, it is never perfect.

Another movie, even darker than Lord of the Rings is The Dark Knight. And it's pretty gritty, but the questions it raises are worthy ones, and instead of walking away with nothing to show for it as a Christian, you walk away pondering in your heart, and hopefully discussing things later with others.

Some people will say things like, "But it's nice just to chill, recharge you know?" and yes, that's true, but do you really want to do that with something absolutely BANAL? Or worse something that SEEMS banal but has sneaky Hollywood agenda injected below the surface that sneaks into your character because, well...the little princess is just so cute!

Here's an idea. Instead of totally zoning out and sacrificing your mind to a glowing tube to "chillax", go read the Psalms. Go sing. Go sing hymns! Go spend time playing frisbee with your family.

Entertainment should help shape us and prepare us for God's kingdom. At the very least it should stimulate our minds and encourage us to turn to God's Word for the answers to difficult questions.

I think the Dark Fantasy trends, and movies like the Hunger Games and The Dark Knight Rises have great potential for that.

So yes. I am excited for this turn of events, and look forward to movies that are not sleep-inducing but thought-provoking.

Hollywood loves that sort of thing.


I doubt that Hollywood will do much of substance with this trend, but one can always hope.

The Hunger Games got close. The Dark Knight was awesome. There are a few treasures in the slush pile of films they spew out every year.

I don't do dark. In reading, writing, movies, music, I don't go for dark in any aspect of entertainment. So personally I'm not in favour of how dark fairytales are going these days.

I understand that a lot of people prefer a dark story over something fluffy and seemingly meaningless, but I don't believe a movie or book needs to be dark to be substantial. For me, being "called out of darkness into His glorious light" makes me want to seek things that point to the Light, rather than being entertained by the darkness. This limits my reading/viewing material, but I find a dark story to be depressing if there is no light at the end of the tunnel somewhere. I'm not drawn to see the new Snow White, new Red Riding Hood, or any of the new fairytales they are bringing out for this purpose.

Disney is often ridiculed for "fluffying up" original fairytales, but having just been watching Disney's "Beauty and the Beast", I really don't think it could be called all that "light". They capture the darkness within the beast superbly, and his world, but it teaches good morals throughout the storyline and ends with hope and light. (I know this is only one example, but I thought I'd throw it in.)

I guess it could come down to personality as well. But for me, I think there are plenty of movies and books out there full of conflict, evil, and yet goodness and light without delving into dark, unbidden places. One can still gain something from entertainment that is not dark. One needn't see the evil in full manifestation on the screen or the pages of the book to know it exists. One needn't have a graphic scene imprinted on their brain to make them aware this stuff is out there and needs dealing with.

Those are my rambly incoherent thoughts.

To a large extent I agree with you, Bushmaid.

My point wasn't that everything has to be irredeemable and hopeless to be worthwhile. That's twisted. But often movies with more darkness in them have a greater contrast when the light DOES come. And then it's more meaningful. Also, there IS much to be learned from what seems irredeemable and hopeless, but you're right in that it's not a good idea to dwell on that constantly.

Good thoughts, all around. I hadn't heard about Maleficent yet. *goes to research *

In addition to Maleficent, there will also be a dark Pinocchio coming out (rumored, at this point), and a new Oz is scheduled for next year.

Oooh. (I'm excited to see Snow White and the Huntsman and Jack the Giant Killer...and these new ones sound like they might be pretty cool as well.)

I also seem to recall hearing about a dark Hansel and Gretel and an R-rated Humpty Dumpty.

Yeah, the Hansel and Gretel one is 15 years after their experience with the witch. They are now witch hunters, ridding the world of witches so that no other child will ever be traumatized as they were. I'm very interested to see how that one progresses, as well as Maleficent....