*chuckles*

Okay, so who of us here have read all 28 of the Elsie series, and the seven on Mildred Keith? What about the Violet Travilla books? What do you think of the newly abridged and edited versions?

Oh, oh *raises hand* I love Elsie!
I got really into the books when I was about eleven and still love them to death (at least the six that I have read )....
I even named my puppy Elsie-May Saphira.
I DO NOT like the new and edited versions of the book. Pretty soon no one is going to be able to read and understand old english writing and I just love it!

I really enjoyed them when I read them (which was also when I was about eleven). Although I'm not especially keen on them now, for various reasons. Don't worry about reading past book 6. In the next one Elsie's husband dies. *sigh* And then her father lives on for the next 21 books... I always thought it ought to have been the other way around.

I actually liked the new and edited Violet series to a degree, but I've not read the new Elsie books. I loved the dolls they brought out for the series, though.

If you like the older style of writing, Charles Dickens is pretty cool.

No, I'm afraid Elsie annoyed me a lot. She was far too perfect and not at all realistic. Certainly not a character one could relate to at all.

Who's Elsie Dinsmore?

I too, did not like Elsie. The story could have been a lot more enjoyable if her "flaws" or "sins" were actually flaws, or sins that need forgiving. (i.e. I don't think cutting a lock of hair off was a sin ) Plus, her endless tears really annoyed me after a while, and I was constantly wishing her some more backbone.

I have a love/hate relationship with Elsie.

Having said that, I have only read what I think are the newer ones. The Life of Faith series? Are those the new ones? I don't really know. But anyway, I liked the first two books. Yea, I do think Elsie needed more backbone. But the first two or three were pretty good.

But then it got into where she got older, and then I found them quite boring. I think I finished them anyway, though.

On the other hand, I LOVE the Millie books. Yes, I read the new ones, but I love and adore then all the same. Unlike Elsie, Millie got into scrapes and had some hair raising adventures, such as the stagecoach and the bear. I think I've read the Millie ones about 5 or 6 times, the entire series.

I think Elsie could have been better, overall.

Elsie Dinsmore is a book character - cries a lot, dramatic, obsessive over little things.

Oh... she almost sounds like my sister.

I used to be into Elsie Dinsmore when I was about twelve, owned all 28 originals, but sold most or all of them in the past year.

Looking back, I really disapprove of quite a bit of the premise. (the whole moral objection to reading a novel on a Sunday.... was odd... and playing it up to such an extent was also odd.) No eight year old is like that or should be like that.

Yeah, I had issues with her "flaws" too.

I liked the books when I first started reading them at age... 10? I always was disturbed with the fact that she wouldn't stand up for herself- I would have tared and feathered Arthur! What little girl lets a boy, or another girl *glares at rotten cousins * treat them like that? It is one thing to be selfless and not seek out revenge. It is another to be a doormat and let people walk all over you.

Also, the whole book on Sunday thing was blown way out of proportion! O.O I'm with Jenni, that doesn't happen. Nor do I think her doing so was appropriate.

I reread the books when I was 16. And my opinion of them was significantly less.

And Elsie is sooo pretty. *tries to be kind * It is one thing to be pretty. It is another thing to be otherworldly pretty and perfect and have it brought up to the reader all the time. I got so sick of hearing everyone say how pretty Elsie was. Or to hear her perfect curls described to me yet again. Or her soft eyes. Or- yeah. It just got old, real fast. And then you had all her children who turned out to be just as beautiful- even her boys were pretty.

I like to feel a character struggle. To identify with them. Elsie is described in the books as an angel. And honestly, she never felt human. The only thing that kept her from being a heavenly being was the fact that she cried all the time. And yet, I never felt her tears. *sighs *

As a kid I liked them. As a teen-adult, I was really disappointed.

::laughs at others' groans:: I read the first one and and the part in the second where Arthur shoves Elsie down a slope and she sprains her ankle, the only exciting part in the series. (How does anyone sprain an ankle rolling down a slope?) My sister read quite a few and got bored with the history stories and Zoe losing her temper again.
In other words, I was not impressed. I actually know a family who were not allowed to read them because she was so perfect.

Oh dear , I feel as if I must defend Elsie.
But I will not try, because yes I agree she is overly perfect! and I wish at times she had a backbone. But considering that I did overall enjoy her story.
I was not very close to my Dad at the point in my life when I read them, and it really helped me appreciate my Dad and made me want to be closer to him. For that reason alone I admire the books, I'm sure you understand ....
Ana

You're right, Ana. Though I do agree with Airi there, the fact that she continued to love her father through thick and thin was admirable.

One point I found unsettling about the whole "novel on Sunday" thing, was that at her age, I don't believe it was her place to make the decision whether or not it was suitable for Sunday. She was only, what: ten years old? I do think that disobeying one's father far outweighs reading a book on the sabbath when it comes to the breaking-the-law scale.

*chuckles * Man, Aussie, you and I have some very similar views on this subject.

Oh Ana, I think that is great! The Lord uses all sorts of things to show us truth. Being a big Daddy's girl, I understood Elsie's relationship with her father well, so I agree that her love for her father was very admirable.

*sighs* In my house, my siblings and I call her Elsie Dullsmore and Elsie Dimsmore and Elsie Dumbsmore and pretty much any other horrible name you can come up with. My mom loves the books and is not pleased.

But for all my intense hatred and disgust with those egregious books...I must admit that when I was eight, I thought they were incredible. I read the first twelve unabridged ones, and every single one made me cry at some point or another. They even altered my speech patterns. I started saying things like, "Yes, mother I shall. And "No, I shan't."

And then a few years ago, I went back and re-read them and I was disgusted. Elsie is the epitome of a Mary-Sue. There is nothing wrong with her. She's obviously her author's darling. She never does anything wrong, she speaks in paragraphs, she's breathtakingly gorgeous, and the people around her who are supposed to be "villains" have villainy in them that mainly consists in either being jealous of her or not being quite as angelic, or just hating her for no real reason. Oh and have you noticed how dainty she is? Her traveling "fatigues" her. But then the next morning she's going into a theological lecture at the breakfast table!

That is just lazy writing. There is no good reason to like Elsie. And everyone who doesn't happen to like her is painted as a monster. My favorite character in the books was Lulu, and I felt so bad at her being constantly beaten into submission! Even when she was a brat I felt like cheering for her because she was actually human! Hallelujah!

Oh, and here's another problem. No series should ever go on for 28 books. That's just silly.

*laughs * I never realized that before... it's true, though.

Yeah, the dainty part kinda irked me... It perpetuates the "women are fragile" lie.

Willow, I honestly laughed out loud then when I read your post! That was brilliant, and perfectly put!

*pokes * Willow, Elanor.

Oh dear! Sorry, Willow! *Edits*

I have all twenty-eight books. There is a lot of good in them, and I appreciate some good effects they had on me.

However, I have objections to them (mostly those that have already been brought up on this thread) which will probably keep me from letting my children read them, at least at young ages.

I haven't read them in ages.

I read the Elsie Dinsmore books (the Life of Faith series, but I've heard they're not actually that different) years ago, and I really enjoyed them. I wanted the Elsie doll really badly at one point. I was maybe about 12 or so.

Now, however...

My opinions echo Willow's, Elanor's, Bushy's, and Airianna's. She was not realistic at all. Very much a Mary-Sue. Her "flaws" also annoy me. And I don't approve of the no-books-on-Sunday, thing, either.

There was also the time, which was very similar, where she refused to play a certain song on piano for her father's guests. She deliberately disobeyed him in that, too, because it was a secular song. He told her to sit on the piano bench until she agreed to play it, so she sat there for hours. And eventually fainted.

Now, after the rant, I will admit, if I were to reread them, I would probably enjoy it, if for no other reason than that it brings back fond childhood memories. (Though I'd probably be rolling my eyes through most of it.) The second book was my favorite, though I don't remember why...

And her constant ability to love her father was admirable, Ana.

I didn't really care for Violet much, but I LOVED Millie. (Like, completely and utterly adored Millie!) I didn't read the last two Millie books, though....I should fix that.

*tries to nod at everyone at once*

The main thing that kept me reading all through the twenty-eight was all the.... *pauses, trying to think of the right word* ... adventures, almost. No. Mishaps. Lulu's brother almost drowned. The KKK attacked. Elsie was almost married off to a horrible man. Et cetera.

Did anyone like Walter? For some reason I really clicked with that character.... such a shame he had to die. (Mind you, this was when I was eleven...) I can't really remember that much about anything now... just vague 'clips', if you will.

The book with the KKK stuff in it was my favorite. One of the few books I could find with at least some information on that!

(And poor Walter. **sniff**)

Willow, that was hilarious. I agree entirely!


Agreed! When an MC is so perfect, I have always found myself rooting for the one who is less so!

Hey, on a slight tangent, has anyone ever done the ACE curriculum of school books? Those are another example of "perfect" children. My siblings and I were always rooting for the Pudge character because he often fell short of the "acceptable" mark.

Walter.

He was mourned.

ACE, my sister started it and she hated it so Dad changed her curriculum. It annoyed her that they were so perfect looking all the time and so on.

I prefer a book character who has flaws as well as good points, that's realistic.

Walter DID become a Christian though...so I didn't feel very bad for him. He got to go to heaven early and get away from Elsie.

WILLOW!

I loved Walter, and was sad when he died. But I was sad that he fought for the wrong side. *sigh* *is a troublemaker*

Yeah, I felt the same about Lulu.

That made me laugh so hard. I might have to say this is the funniest thread on the forums. Maybe you should write a book on how not write a book, using Elsie as an example.

It made me laugh too, Varon.

Poor Elsie.

Poor Walter. *sniffs a little* Walter was such a sweetie.

@Varon, if someone writes that book I'll be sure to buy it!

Hey, I think something came up here that needs a bit of discussion:

I noticed that almost all of us liked or loved the books when we were younger. That's how I was. And then, later, when we read them, we didn't like them (or at least Elsie) anymore.

Why is that, do you think?

As for me, Elsie challenged me to know the Bible and know what I believed, even if others around me were against it. My young brain had not been stimulated in that way before. I had never really thought that a mere child could have strong beliefs and live by them.

Then there was the pity aspect. I felt Elsie's pain every time her father snubbed her, or she was unjustly accused of wrong. Once or twice I felt like crying with her (and I'm not prone to crying at books).

But after the first two books, Elsie did start to get boring.

Well... two suggestions, Aemi.

1) Small children are quicker to see the good in things than the bad... and often the good makes up and overwhelms the bad.

2) The more you write and read the sharper your critiquing senses grow.

I know both are true in my case... and the first not restricted to small childhood . I've a 'goodness' detector, and if the good is strong enough it'll even blot out what's bad for a time if I'm not careful.

There's some things to be admired in Elsie, such as her heart-felt faith and love for others, as well as her devotion to her father (which annoyed me excessively, but... *shrugs*). As far as I can remember, many of Martha Finley's principles were very Biblical (don't quote me on that, it's been five years since I've read the books!) and although there's danger in a perfect character (especially a rich one) to stir dissatisfaction etc., there's no excessive violence, immorality or blasphemy in the books.

And I believe I just spent the last paragraph defending Elsie.

I basically agree with Cassandra... though it's not Elsie's perfection that bothers me now as much as the moral problems I have with the books, which are substantial enough that, as I said, I might not let my children read them at young ages.

I did actually notice that seemed to be a pattern, and was going to mention so, but Aemi beat me to it.

Yup. Elsie Dinsmore is more a children's book, it seems. (However, I have read many a children's book that do not have Mary-Sues, like this does. ) I remember my Mom saying she never really liked it - even though I could never figure out why. It was a mystery to me. Now, I know. Which is why I try to be more forgiving on poor Elsie, despite her lack of backbone, her tendency to whine, her unrealistic beauty, and such. I liked her when I was a kid. I really did. I liked her so much as a kid that I almost feel guilty saying that I don't really care for her now.

But like Ani said, I don't like some of the moral issues.

As children, our minds work best with black and white, symbols, archetypes, etc... At least mine did. And so to have a protagonist who is perfectly perfect in every way was nice because I could root for her completely, and hate everyone else and it was simple, and there was an interesting plot, and the world was good.

But getting older, we notice that things are never that easy. And we don't want things that are perfect, because we've realized things are never that way. We want someone to actually identify with, and someone who yes, is perhaps a better person than we are, but who has real struggles, and overcoming those struggles inspires us.

(Also, Martha Finley is just a bad writer. So once we can tell the difference between good and bad writing that kinda wrecks it anyway. )

Well said, Willow.

Another Millie fan! I love love love love love love love love love love the Millie books! I still read them all the time! And yes, you should fix that. And we should probably start another thread for that Millie Keith.


*Feels like she must defend the author at least a little* Yes, the Elsie books are rather boring. The Violet ones too. But, as I said before, I LOVE the Millie books! And the singular Laylie book was pure awesome too. If you haven't already read those, you must!

Yes, it is. That makes a lot of sense.

I know why they didn't make a movie of the books. They couldn't find anybody perfect enough to play Elsie.

Hah. Nice one, Elly!

This thread really cracks me up!

Do any of you know whether a first edition Martha Finley would be valuable? I picked one up for 25 cents one time, and since I don't really care whether I have a first edition or not, I would love to sell it!

I'm not sure, but probably.

I hope so!

Wow. A first edition?

Yup! 1884, which is when "Mildred at Home" was published. (At least according to Wikipedia... )