I know from talking with **Ciela Rose** on Facebook that she and I are both big fans of the Redwall Series by Brian Jacques, and wanted to know what the other Holy Worlders thought about it.

**EDIT - corrected an error in identity

Well, my most prominent thought is that most books in the Redwall series are "cheats". They rip each other off.

Each book has two components. Always. Period. A quest, and Redwall being attracted. Sometimes they're tied together, sometimes they're separate.

My other thought is that Redwall is vaguely New Age, or at least influenced by it. Some beliefs held by the Redwallers are even downright superstitious. And, of course, there is the whole problem of Martian's ghost.

On other item, as well. I'm still waiting for a mole who wields Martin's sword. I've waited and waited! It's got to happen eventually.

ick. my biggest problem with Redwall (aside from similar storylines in every book) is that they have turned into a franchise. (Seven Sleepers, anyone?) There are 22 books, and I find that to be waaaaaaay too many. Why can he not wrap the series up in...say eight at the most?

Ouch, guys. That hurt.

I like Redwall because there are intriguing characters, neat villains, reoccuring themes of friendship and loyalty, and there is no immorality and little profanity.

Even though Redwall has repeating storylines, they are woven in different ways, so that it makes for an interesting read each time. And some books are better with the story twists then others. And personally, I like how there are lots of books in the series, and each has new characters, and new personalities (ok maybe not, but new characters, nonetheless).

Granted, maybe Redwall has a New Agey philosophy (honestly, I didn't even notice until Neil mentioned it), but personally, I don't think Redwall is much farther off than Eragon. If judging from what I've heard (forgive me if I'm wrong), it's a whole lot more wholesome then the other.

Plus, Redwall has influenced my writing about animals, so you might say that Ilaria (my world) was inspired by Mossflower. So I guess I get a little touchy about it. :P Kind of feel like my characters have no chance if no one really approves of Redwall.

Anyway, those are my thoughts on the matter.

Ugh, Jordan, where'd you get the idea that I was a fan of Redwall? I...uh...how to say this delicately...
I can see your point Ciela, but the same plot line over and over is a little much. I stopped on book 3. It was good writing, but a little...overdone. Glad it's influenced your writing...looks like you've picked up the good points. To be honest I like Ilaria (much) better than Mossflower.
I don't have time right now to go into a rant about the series...but I warn you Jordan not to jump to conclusions in the future.

Joke, of course...though please be careful.

WHOOOPS!!! My bad. I was thinking of the facebook discussions I had with Ciela, but because I had replied to your message most recently, your name was the one I thought of. And Inesdar thought that chasing comments around was making HIM dizzy. I got dizzy and didn't even know it **sheepishly grins** Sorry, will check my messages before I attach names to them from now on!

There are 4 books that have nothing to do with the Abbey being attacked thank you very much: Martin the Warrior, Legend of Luke, Mossflower and Lord Brocktree. I'm also pretty sure that the abbey isn't endangered in Salamandastron either, but I could be wrong about that one. And I think The Bellmaker takes place away from the abbey as well. Oh and High Rhulain as well...I think.

And as for the books that contain the same two plot elements every time, I read the book in like 3 or 4 days, love the book, forget it 3 or 4 days later, so by the time I read the next one the previous one has already fallen out of my head and it doesn't feel like reading the same old story all over again.
Though I do get yall's point.
Starting to think this thread might not have been such a good idea after all

In Christ,
Jordan

Don't worry, Jordan. I'm standing with you.

I know there is at least another Redwall fan on here . . . Where is he when we need him? :P

Yoohoo! Unknown Redwall fan? Come out come out wherever you are!

Or maybe he wants to stay out of the arguement. Either way, I'm not going to name him, but if any of his charries are any indication, then he at least moderately likes Redwall.

This is becoming a touchy issue. I'm having fun.

Oh, are you talking of me? Sorry, didn't see the thread.

Okay, even though all the books do contain quests, that hardly makes them identical. In fact, I can hardly think of any books that aren't centered around some kind of quest. The attacks on the Abbey help the books because they add extra plot twists and Brian Jacques does a great job of tying it all together.

The longness of the series doesn't really matter. I've read about 20 of them. Besides, how many books did J. R. R. Tolkien, probably the greastest human author of all time, write or plan to write?

J.R.R. Tolkien did not franchise his books! LOL!

Some of them tied together...and he wrote a Trilogy, but I think that is a huge difference.

With Redwall, you get the idea that he is dragging it out to make more money.

The series isn't really connected any more than Tolkien's books, really. They don't even have to be read in any order. It's like the Hardy Boys or Nancy Drew, you could read any one and understand perfectly.

About the the money. I can't claim to know his heart, but did you ever think that maybe he just likes to write?

In Salamandastron you may be right, but in Bellmaker and High Rhulain the abbey is in danger despite being totally uninvolved in the quests.

It does stand worth mentioning that Martin, Legend, Mossflower, and Brocktree happen to be the best books in my opinion...

Brocktree is one of the absolute best books in the whole series. Period. I also really like the new one, Doomwyte, because even though the Abbey is in danger, it's a different kind of danger. For some reason, it's different from all of the other Redwall books.

On the website, Jaques says that he's tried to stop writing Redwall several times, but every time he does, his mailbox is flooded by angry fans. I'm not sure if that's the real answer, but I think it is, and I don't think money is in the back of it.

The basic wholesomeness in Redwall is what I like. Certain types of immorality are virtually nonexistant. I always feel safe reading these books.

The problem with Doomwyte is that it vaguely contradicts other plots:

Since when does the Thief from Mossflower have a gigantic family of descendants? I didn't buy it one little bit. Redwallers haven't noticed valuable treasure disappearing for centuries? Exactly how smart are these animals?!

Yeah. Didn't like it.

What was with the black section?

My personal favorites are Taggerung, Brocktree, and Eulalia.

When the Abbey is in danger, it adds more to the story, even if it is totally unrelated.

I haven't read Doomwyte, so I can't say anything on that.

Taggerung is really good.

Personally, I try to pattern some of my villains after the Redwall bad guys, like Riggu Felis and Gabool the Wild. I know it sounds odd, but it is a whole lot of help, considering I have issues with my evil characters.

Can't wait to read Sable Quean.

I have read a few of them, It was a while ago, but they were good I only have a problem with the way that the series was about different people--but the same city (I like to get attached to one character and stick to them)

I personally like long series, like the House of Winslow books by Gilbert Morris (there are 40 of them)

So I agree with both sides of the battlefield, and also added my '2 cents.'

I'll venture to come into this argument...I'm a newbie on the forum, and I've been a member for a whole two hours, but I'll place my flag in the beleaguered 'likes Redwall' camp since it needs some help.

I've read most of the books, but not the newer ones...I believe I've read nineteen of his books. I agree with some of you guys...the plots do seem to be similar, but they are different.

But it's like what they say in Narnia, in the Last Battle,

"Jill: How come something is always happening in Narnia? Our World isn't quite so interesting.
Tirian: It's not that things are always happening in Narnia, but that you are only called when there is trouble."

That's an off-the-cuff quote from my memory, so feel free to disregard it, but isn't that kind of what Redwall is about? Each book is separated from the others by a couple of hundred years.

My favorite book would have to be Mattimeo...it was the first one I read. Though Salamandastron, The Long Patrol, and Rakkety Tam are all very good as well...I really like the Long Patrol hares...they're cool!

I would say that I've patterned a few of my writings off of Redwall...after all, it was one of the first fantasy series I read, even before LoTR The villains especially have influenced me.

Personally, I find that Redwall is a much better series than Eragon...(Eragon always seems to be a rip-off on Lord of the Rings to me) but there are so many fantasy series now that drag on that I think that's hardly fair to apply to Redwall (Granted...twenty something is a little over the top, but Ranger's Apprentice is in the teen's, and others are high as well)

What I find intriguing about Redwall is how well the author 'removes' all humans from the story. The one, and only part in all of the books where humans are even hinted at is in one of the early books when a gang of rats comes to Redwall on a horse and cart.

Eruheran

P.S. Just thought I'd say this is the perfect forum...readers and writers rolled into one...glad we can 'mix' and not have this be a writing-only forum!

Welcome to the Forum, Eruheran! Glad to have you with us.

And thanks for siding with us. Honestly, maybe I have too much fun with debating, but this Redwall arguement is really entertaining.

You're right. A lot of the fantasy books out there (not including LoTR and Narnia) are very cliched, and it's hard to find a series with an original plot or storyline. Redwall's style is really good, overall.

I've never read Eragon, so I can't necessarily judge on that.

Anyway, that's pretty much my mode of thought, maybe I've been a little repetitive. Thanks for sticking with me.

Hmmm... seems I showed up a little late to the party, but I must say, I have a soft spot in my heart for Redwall. My dad read them to my siblings and I at bedtime when we were kids. He'd do funny voices for the moles and the hares and such, and we loved it. I haven't personally read very many of them on account of having so many other books to read, but I've planned on it for some time. Come to think of it, I haven't got much to read right now... maybe I'll start...

Good to see a few more Redwall supporters coming to the debate...but where did our competition go? I was just getting my long, boring speeches about the merits of Redwall ready.

Yeah, there were no other responses against Redwall after my last post...

I checked out Redwall from the library - going to proofread it for my youngest brother. Guess I'll see if I like it.

I think I liked Redwall and Mattimeo the best as well.

Has any of you ever seen the cartoon Redwall tv show? I saw it when I was 10, so it was a few years ago (might be a bit childish, don't quite remember) but I think the plots of the book and TV show are pretty similar, so they didn't stray from the storyline that much.

P.S. I had the DVD of the series shipped over from U.K.... yes, I was that crazy about Redwall when I was younger plus they all have British accents!

I heard about it, but I never saw any of it.

Oh, wow. I just finished reading "Taggerung" and it was REALLY good. I would love to see it turned into a movie... maybe I could write the script. I'm working on "Mossflower" now (I know, way out of order) and it's good, too. One thing I would have changed about Taggerung, though, would be to make the confrontation between Deyna and Gruven the climax of the book. After that it just seemed to drag on with the Juska "attack" and such... still, overall it was very well done.

It appears our foe has fled.

I love Redwall. It is one of the best series I've ever read.

I may be a little late in on this discussion, but I used to be an avid Redwall fan, reading every book when it came out. However, I noticed that after awhile the newer books weren't as good as the older ones. Now, I don't read the new ones, I just go back and reread the old ones.

The new ones have been pretty good, but they've been different.

I haven't read any of the newer ones. I read like all the books in Fifth and Sixth grade and haven't reread any since then except for Raketty Tam in ninth grade (which remains one of the best I've read). I can't even remember most of the plots any more

eruheran

Rakkety Tam is one of the best. I definitely agree.

Rakkety Tam remains one of my favorites. 
That one, Redwall, and Taggerung.

The newer books are definitely . . . different from the rest of the series.  Doomwyte is a good example.  It was pretty creepy (but it had a great ending!).

Redwall and Mattimeo are still probably some of the best in the entire series. Especially Mattimeo.

Oh, and as long as people comment here, the discussion never ends, old or no.

I wouldn't exactly say creepy.

I haven't read any for two years, last one was Eulalia. Rakkety Tam was probably my second favorite.

I agree with you, Ciela Rose, Mattimeo definitely had one of the most original plots in my opinion. I was actually just talking about these the other day and thought of that one. Definitely one of my favorites...now I should track it down and re-read it. (It was also the first one I read, which is maybe why I like it so much)

eruheran

I read Redwall first. High Rhulain is good too.

The first one I read was Rakkety Tam, and after that was Triss. Then I was completely hooked on the series.

Redwall seems to have a different style than the rest of the books. The way Jacques handles the Abbeymice and the other creatures is distinct from the rest of the series.

I've heard this series is really good, but books can be expensive so I haven't gotten them yet. My birthday will be here soon so I'll buy the first one with grandmother money.

Start with "Redwall." Then just pick any that you like.

Will do, thanks Varon.

You're welcome.

The Two Word Post King strikes again!

That must be an inside joke.

Not really. Two Word Post King was a nickname given to me on the NaNoWriMo YWP website, and I mentioned it on here. It stuck.

You must be a man of few words Varon How in the world did you become a writer?

I use all my words in my writing.

Funny.

I mostly agree, except that I think if you like Redwall you should probably read Mattimeo next since it's a direct sequel. After that, it doesn't really matter.