Gen 6:1-4 KJV And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, (2) That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. (3) And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. (4) There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

In a modern translation:

Gen 6:1-4 ESV When man began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them, (2) the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose. (3) Then the LORD said, "My Spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years." (4) The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.

Or in the often enlighting (and more often confusing) Young's Literal Translation:

Gen 6:1-5 YLT And it cometh to pass that mankind have begun to multiply on the face of the ground, and daughters have been born to them, (2) and sons of God see the daughters of men that they are fair, and they take to themselves women of all whom they have chosen.
(3) And Jehovah saith, `My Spirit doth not strive in man--to the age; in their erring they are flesh:' and his days have been an hundred and twenty years.
(4) The fallen ones were in the earth in those days, and even afterwards when sons of God come in unto daughters of men, and they have borne to them--they are the heroes, who, from of old, are the men of name. (5) And Jehovah seeth that abundant is the wickedness of man in the earth, and every imagination of the thoughts of his heart only evil all the day;

What are they? Do you use them in your novel? How are they portrayed?

And think beyond the generic "demon-spawn" thing. If that is how you view them, are they redeemable? Or were the nephilim really just mighty men?

Remember, we may not all agree on this subject (we certainly didn't on vampires), but the purpose of this discussion is that those of us who use the nephilim can portray them in an educated and well-thought-out manner. This is about quality, not proving we are right.

In that light, I suggest that those who are interested in posting do either one or both of two things:

A. Post about how you portray the nephilim in your novel;

B. Post any information/explanation/interesting-tidbits about the nephilim that you have come across. This way we are simply presenting information on the subject.

Not that you can't discuss it, of course, if you want to. Feel free to disagree. But let's try to keep debate to a minimum.

(I will be posting my own interesting tidbits later on.)

I've never used them in my stories before. I've always thought they were fallen angels, but I don't know much about them. I'll be watching this with interest.

I know they've been used to questionable effect in Madeleine L'Engle's book Many Waters. I thought her portrayal of nephilim was rather far-fetched, but in a fantasy/science fiction/semi-historical-fiction it felt right.

Another place that uses the concept of nephilim is Brian Davis' Raising Dragons/Oracles of Fire series. He had a rather complicated, and again rather far-fetched, explanation for what exactly they were (something to do with giants and blood, but I don't remember exactly).

Anyway, all that to say nephilim are rarities in literature and when they're found, they seem to work best in a fantastic work rather than a historical work, especially because of the variety of opinions on the subject.

Mike Duran never says it, but I think he has a (far fetched) possible explanation in his book "The Telling". Basically there is an opening from hell to earth in Endurance and the demons come out, take over the body of a human and you can hardly tell the difference at first, and then they "evolve" to become barely able to tell the difference. I suppose it could be possible, but I don't know.

*is confused*

That is slightly repetitive, could you clarify?

Sorry, Flavia. It was confusing when I read it too . They kill the human, but take on the human's personality, thoughts, voice, etc. Near the beginning of the book, the other characters can usually tell if they are "different", "possessed", or whatever you want to call it. Towards the end of the book the demons have evolved to the point that it is nearly impossible to tell if the human is truly a human or if he is really a demon in human form. Does that make more sense?

Perfectly Thank you, Lady K!

No problem, Flavia. I should have read it more thoroughly after typing it.

My pleasure

[/topic derailment]

Henry Morris puts forth the theory that after the fall, demons changed into the form of humans (as angels are able to change into form by the gift of God in order to minister us) having retained that ability from when they were angels of light, and slept with women whose heart were like those of Cain. He then maintains that the offspring of such a union were unusually mighty and fierce and terrible, either through the unnatural union itself or genetic engineering on the part of the demon enabled by the bodily subjection of the woman. These offspring were the nephilim.

Primarily Mr. Morris works off the premise that 'sons of God' were used to describe not only men and Christ, but angels, only I can't recall his explanation for having the term refer to demons as well. He also pointed out the strange discrepency of having 'sons of God' but 'daughters of men' and states that if they had been ordinary men and women, the men with pure hearts and the women with vile, there is still no reason for the physical attributes of the nephilim to spring from such a natural union. Thus his theory of the demons.

I am not currently tackling the issue head on in my Noah stories. I have introduced a giant (fully human) but also in that particular story I included a "Mighty man". In short, I am seperating the Nephilim and the men of renown into two distinct groups. This is what the commentary in my Bible indicates, and I decided to stick with it for the most part. I have really not gone into whether there is or is not demonic activity, because that is really not essential to the plot as of now.
I'm trying for a more grounded approach because my story is not fantasy style at all, unlike most set before the flood it seems.

Hello,

As I just signed into this forum, I'm a bit late to this party. But I wanted to throw some thoughts out there. It has been a while since I have done any serious study on the nephilim but there is a considerable amount of back story located within the Book of Enoch (post-exillic Apocrypha). There, a caste of Angels referred to as "The Watchers" (gk Grigori) are the ones who slept with the human women. (this was a refresher from wikipedia).

In my works, none finished, I tend to depict nephilim as humans with a little more in their favor. Super strength, super intelligence, longer life spans. In reality, I hold to the view that scripture was referring to godly men and ungodly men mixing with the result of children who did not know the true God but were still renowned. I think its more of a commentary on how one doesn't have to know God in order to be under common grace. And to show how the world's population became as it was in Noah's day.

I do cheat though and have the nephilim evolve from mere humans to deformed, leathery winged creatures of the night- almost vampyric in nature. But there is nothing to support that, just the writer in me throwing stuff together.

As a side note, if that happened back then, why could it still not happen now? Or why doesn't it? This is why I think its referring to merely humans and not fallen angels and humans.

I don't know if young kid's books are beneath you accomplished writers, but you should check out "The Tombs of Anak", by Frank Peretti. The antagonist in the story is a six-fingered giant, which Peretti explains as an Anakaim, which I believe is the race of Goliath.

Hope that helps.

---
A newbie.

I love Frank Peretti's books, including the "kid's" books. I had forgotten about that one. Thanks for suggesting it!

Ah, a post that could have us arguing forever...

Note that the Bible says Nephilim were in the world after the flood as well, so I believe, and have been taught, that Goliath was a Nephilim - he certainly fits the 'giant' description. I also understand that it was angels, not demons/fallen angels, who mated with human females. The result was giant humans, eg Goliath, not half angel/half human offspring. (And as I recall, the Bible says these errant angels were thrown into the abyss already, unlike the demons who still away their judgment.)

I have a Nephilim in my novel, 'A Knight from Dein' and he is a giant, very similar to Goliath. I won't say anymore than that about him...

Regards
Peter

The people from my hometown tend to be pretty large. Many of them come from farming families that have all stayed right here over the years, and have mixed largely with each other. It wouldn't have to be supernatural tampering to create giants. I don't know about the extra fingers and toes, but some people are born with those today, albeit incompleted.

Yes, and back then there was more genetic diversity, which could help explain the giants such as the Anakim and Goliath.