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| Making history https://archive.holyworlds.org/viewtopic.php?f=244&t=935 |
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| Author: | Elanhil [ August 29th, 2010, 12:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Making history |
Ok, maybe this should go in tips, Helps, and Suggestions for writing, but I have a question about making history. Today I sat down to make history (for my world  ) and I drew a blank. WHERE DO YOU START?!?! Do you start at the beginning of time and write all the way to the present for each country?? Also, how much history do I need? I mean, a complete history would be EVERYTHING that ever happened, which obviously is impossible, so where do I start? History is so sticky. 
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| Author: | Constable Jaynin Mimetes [ August 29th, 2010, 8:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making history |
Hm, tricky question. Me, I write backwards. So I'd just write the story, and then write the history of events that you included in the story. Work your way from the present to the past. That way you don't have to worry about taking a wrong turn on the tree of possibilities and ending up in a different present then where you want to write. |
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| Author: | Andrew Amnon Mimetes [ August 29th, 2010, 10:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making history |
I create a basic hierarchy first. How do your inhabitants measure history? Different cultures will have different defining events in their history. Is history divided into event-independent, time-varying 'ages'. Or is it regulated like 'centuries'? Now, fill in historical events that are mentioned in your story. Include events for all cultures, not just the one you are writing about. Maybe you could create different histories for different cultures, because depending on their culture different people will remember different things (Exhibit A: the gospels). Next, you can just make events up. I use a program called Timeline Generator. I don't copy and paste into my history but I do use the events it generates as a basis for events that happened in my world. I elaborate. Tie countries together. In the real world there is lots of interaction between countries. Have marriages of royal families, creation of empires, invasion of other nations, peace treaties, tribute. Whatever you want. (In my opinion this is the most fun part: the making up  )Continuity is also key. If Country A and Country B signed the Treaty of Big-Landia in the fourth age, why have there been no repercussions throughout other ages? For example, maybe you could cite increased trade between A and B in an event in the following ages. Hopefully that helped. That's just pretty much some of the stuff I go through when I develop my histories. I suppose it's a form of fractalling, but it will really help your history be deeper. eruheran |
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| Author: | Elanhil [ August 29th, 2010, 11:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making history |
Thanks both of you for advice. The problem with writing backwards is that the events that happen in the present are dependent on what's happened before. Like eruheran said, if A and B sign a treaty, increased trade or something will occur. I'll try to link the pasts of all the countries, but they are isolated and are just discovering each other at the present, so that will be an obstacle. I'm still open to tips, if anybody's got ideas.
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| Author: | Lord Kieren Mimetes [ October 25th, 2010, 9:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making history |
You've already written all your history now, but anyway. It really depends on what you want. You can do all your history or you can just make events that a relevant to your story as you go. |
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| Author: | Varon [ October 25th, 2010, 10:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making history |
I suggest making a map if you don't have one, a map of each country or region. As you create the map, certain places will appear that demand something important to happen there. I have a certain mountain pass or gap (I can't tell which) that demands its history be bloody and tearful. Due to that, that pass has been the site of dozens, if not hundreds of massive battles over the span of the world. From those battles, I keep expanding from there. Who was fighting? Why were they fighting? I just keep explaining, and eventually, I have a pretty decent history fleshed out. |
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| Author: | Arias Mimetes [ October 25th, 2010, 2:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making history |
I've just started writing a history for my world, but I started with the creation. Seemed like a good place to start with  Then I can work with how the races spread out, and different conflicts and developments, etc. I know how it needs to end up (well, actually I'm still developing the world...), so I can put it together so it builds up to the "present time".
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| Author: | Rachel Newhouse [ October 25th, 2010, 3:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making history |
There are some helpful suggestions here! I haven't touched the history of my current fantasy-world-in-progress, except to define a bit of recent political history. I may employ some of these tips in taking my history a bit further. I agree - it really depends on what you need. Some stories may not need much history. Some cultures might not put heavy emphasis on studying and preserving history. For some stories, you might have an idea of history in your notes, but most of the information won't actually end up in the narrative. If you know that the countries in your world have been isolated until now, then you already have part of your history worked out. You can ask yourself - why are they isolated? How did they get to be that way? And work backwards from there. I am a work-backwards type of writer myself. If I know where I'm going, I can often figure out how to get there; whereas if I don't know where I'm going, I get stuck because I don't know what comes next. But every writer is different. History is not necessarily something you need to have cemented before you do a first draft. You may try doing a first draft, or at least starting a draft, and see how things flow. You'll probably understand your world better after you start writing it. |
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| Author: | Elanhil [ October 25th, 2010, 8:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making history |
Ok, I'll post here what I did. It's really quite simple. I wrote the current events, then the creation, and then filled in everything in-between, so that it made sense. And I've got a good history, in my opinion. |
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| Author: | RedWing the Purple [ October 29th, 2010, 12:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making history |
History is an interesting thing to deal with. I admit I've never payed a huge amount of attention to the subject, but I know I should. Reading through this thread has given me ideas on to how to develop it more.I do have one question. How much history do you think would be needed? I know this often times depends on the story. I have one story where the plot is very dependent on the history of it's world, especially the ancient history, along with legends, myths, etc. But what about another story, in which the history doesn't play a large part? Do you develop it more? I know it might greatly affect the development of your world's culture if you do. But how much is enough? |
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| Author: | Arias Mimetes [ October 29th, 2010, 12:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making history |
If it's just for a story I don't think you need as much history, unless you just want to write it. If you're developing an entire world I would say go ahead and try to do most of it. |
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| Author: | Airianna Valenshia [ October 29th, 2010, 1:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making history |
I personally do not like a long history run down. I think it bogs down the narrative. This is one of the things that I dislike about Lord of the Rings (yeah I know, you all will pounce on me when you read this, just remember I greatly admire the man and reference him a lot). I think all of Tolkien’s history was good; I just don’t like that he often times gave a history rundown when presenting it. I like to interweave the facts of my world’s history into the narrative. It seems more a part of the story to me rather than a separate entity. Now, I have seen instances where a rundown was appropriate and strengthened the story, but I’ve more often seen where it doesn’t flow well. I think history adds a lot of depth to a story. Not enough history could hurt you in the end, but too much can be just as detrimental. In my opinion you need enough history to round out your world and convince people this world has its own culture and background, but not so much that it reads like a history book. Ground your world in history, don’t drown it. That’s my philosophy anyway, and it has served me well. I’ve also found it helpful for me to write out a lot of my history and then go through and find the essence and highlight points that should be added. |
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| Author: | Lord Kieren Mimetes [ October 30th, 2010, 9:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making history |
So your saying don't include unnecessary history in your story, but you can still keep a list of historical things that happened. |
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| Author: | Rachel Newhouse [ October 30th, 2010, 11:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making history |
I think that would be a wise method for most stories. Have your history planned out in your own personal notes; embed it in your own mind so that when you write, the history comes out in the subtext. Include little details as necessary for the narrative, but don't sit for 3+ pages and talk about the creation unless that is truly essential to your story (and you can do it in an interesting manner). |
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| Author: | Airianna Valenshia [ October 30th, 2010, 11:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making history |
Right! See, the way I look at it is, you have all the history down, but you get to choose what you use. Think of it this way Griffon. When we relate history to a foreigner we wouldn't just give them a big long run down, right? We know all the history, but in our conversation we wouldn't give them every bit of info. Or we might reference the civil war without giving a long description of what the civil war was. This is history as played out in reality. We want our books to represent that. So, you are now able to take your history and insert it where it is needed. You have all the information; you just don't choose to give a big long dissertation on all of it (although sometimes that is necessary to a story). Make sense? |
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| Author: | Elanhil [ October 31st, 2010, 8:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making history |
Thanks for all the tips! This has helped me a ton in deciding about my NaNo novel, and I'll keep it in mind for ones to come. |
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| Author: | Andrew Amnon Mimetes [ November 2nd, 2010, 8:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making history |
Quote: You have all the information; you just don't choose to give a big long dissertation on all of it (although sometimes that is necessary to a story). Make sense? Whoops...that's what mine does.  *rueful grin* Though I do agree, it can be necessary to a story.eruheran |
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| Author: | The Bard [ January 1st, 2011, 11:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making history |
I find it works good to write the history like I was a historian living at the time when my story takes place and things fall in from there. So it has a "history feel" to it, not like it's being told by an all-wise narrator. History is the reason behind what your story is. Dance around history if you dare but don't ever take ahold of it to much. (It bores people.) ~Joe~ (You can write as much as you like; you don't have to include it in the story. Unless you're Tolkien, (which I doubt) |
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| Author: | KathrineROID [ January 2nd, 2011, 12:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making history |
Ironically, while thinking of the history to a world I created, I found a bunch of prequels. I had completely created my world when I started thinking about the history. History really is very flexible (when you're creating it) so I don't think it's possible to create yourself into a corner. I didn't even start out wanting history. I just got curious once I finished creating my world. So I sat back, went into day dream mode (which is how I build my worlds, BTW), and just asked myself, how did it all start? Where did this come from? Who made that? Why why and why? Everything fell into place. Too well, in fact; like I said before, I got several more story lines this way. I've never had a problem with history-making, though, it seems to come naturally, so my advice may not be of use to anyone who needs advice. . . 
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| Author: | Reiyen [ January 2nd, 2011, 8:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making history |
The history of my world just happened to me. I started writing knowing that the Red World was going to be as well developed as Middle-earth by time I was done. I knew not all of it would fall in the first book. My trick was to just throw in a lot of allusions to "history" that wasn't written yet. That's how a story written in that time would be anyway; it would assume that a lot of history was known by the people. From there, I just simply wrote the stories behind the allusions. Kion came into my first book long before I dreamed that he led the dragons in the Second and Third Dragon Wars. For once I have to appreciate school . Anytime I had a creative writing assignment I would just write some more Red World back-history or something.
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| Author: | Neil of Erk [ January 2nd, 2011, 10:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making history |
I "engineer" my history. First, I know the basic culture, etc., of the time my story is set in. Then, I start at the very, very beginning and ask myself, "How can I get from here, to here?" Also remember to include the basic theological story. Creation, corruption, Christ, consummation. This gives you a basic framework to set your questions and answers inside of. |
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| Author: | Elanhil [ January 3rd, 2011, 3:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making history |
Thanks! I think I should look back on my history and recreate the theological road of it. |
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| Author: | Aldara [ October 24th, 2011, 7:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making history |
I don't have much history either. What I'm doing is mixing my actual world-history with the more religious history of the world. Thus, I started with creation, and the fall. That was easiest. I know very little, but I know at one point not long after the fall we have the Halfelven Commission. This is likely just after the wanderlust of the humans cooled down and countries began to form. I basically just make up little events as I go along making the map or fleshing out characters. I discovered the Battle of Kythen's Ruin when I was thinking up a story for a character to tell. I discovered the Rift in Time as I drew the map. I'm still working on it. |
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| Author: | Suiauthon Mimetes [ October 24th, 2011, 11:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making history |
Right now, history is essential to Murel's existence. I'm hoping that by writing history, I will eventually find a storyline to write. I've started with the first two essentials: the creation, and the fall (which I'm still working on). Once I'm done with the fall, I still have planned the splitting of the races, my equivalent of the Flood, and the stories behind the patriarchs of the respective altered races. Ideally, in the end I'll have history from the creation of Murel til the end of time. |
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| Author: | kingjon [ October 25th, 2011, 12:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making history |
Neil of Erk wrote: Also remember to include the basic theological story. Creation, corruption, Christ, consummation. This gives you a basic framework to set your questions and answers inside of. I'd note that not every imagined world's history has to follow that framework. (On which point see the threads about Christianity in a secondary world ...) For example, in mine, I more or less begin with creation, and consummation is at least an order of magnitude farther off than the universe is old by the "present day" and so out of my scope, but the other two are affected by one major point: the world, or at least area of it with which I am concerned, is primarily settled by people who are (or whose ancestors were) from our world. So the only Fall is that of one of the angel-analogues and his followers, which sets limited "corruption" in motion, supplemented by the part of our world's Curse that is on humanity rather than creation. And it's the same gospel as we have believed that saves that world's inhabitants; no additional atonement is needed. |
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| Author: | Andrew Amnon Mimetes [ October 25th, 2011, 5:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making history |
This is true. My world's history covers creation in detail, mentions the fall in two sentences, and hasn't reached Christ yet; we are still in a pre-Christ society in Enderion. Which makes me think...I should write something for the fall. In terms of the OP's question, history will often be written as you come up with people/places/names. Why is that there? How did it come to be there? andcetera. eru |
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| Author: | Airianna Valenshia [ November 21st, 2011, 8:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making history |
Apparently the way I write my history drives other people crazy.
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| Author: | Aragorn [ November 21st, 2011, 9:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making history |
Airianna Valenshia wrote: Apparently the way I write my history drives other people crazy. Why? 
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| Author: | Airianna Valenshia [ November 21st, 2011, 9:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making history |
Cause a few boys always want me to tell them the stuff that I don't feel the need to put into my stories. Like the instructions for how to play Pursue and Conquer. Or they want to know the ballad of Aroogna. I only put in what I need to build my history and my worlds. I don't do any backwork that is needless.
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| Author: | Suiauthon Mimetes [ November 23rd, 2011, 12:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making history |
*groans* The only reason I haven't been pushing is because you're still working on the story and that comes first. ...barely.
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| Author: | Airianna Valenshia [ November 23rd, 2011, 2:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making history |
*will not get on topic about how there is no need for other info no one will ever know about * |
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| Author: | Rachel Newhouse [ November 24th, 2011, 8:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making history |
*prods Airianna to start a separate topic about that* Even if such information doesn't appear in the book, you might consider developing some of it for promotional material.
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| Author: | Aragorn [ November 24th, 2011, 9:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making history |
Aubrey Hansen wrote: *prods Airianna to start a separate topic about that* Good idea. *joins prodding*
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| Author: | Green Mist [ November 24th, 2011, 10:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making history |
Just brainstorm. Write down all of your ideas in a big mess and put them in chronological order afterwards.
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| Author: | Suiauthon Mimetes [ November 24th, 2011, 11:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making history |
Jonathan Garner wrote: Aubrey Hansen wrote: *prods Airianna to start a separate topic about that* Good idea. *joins prodding**noddeth* *joins* |
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| Author: | Airianna Valenshia [ November 25th, 2011, 12:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making history |
We are off topic, and I have ideas. |
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| Author: | Rachel Newhouse [ November 27th, 2011, 11:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making history |
Then go start a thread where you may share your ideas and be on-topic at the same time! Brilliance!
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| Author: | Lord Kieren Mimetes [ December 1st, 2011, 10:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making history |
I really enjoy writing my world's history, so I probably have quite a bit of needless history... But it also comes in handy, sometimes I'll write something that seems needless, but it gets used later where I wouldn't ever have I thought of it at that time.And sometimes it stays needless...
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