Lady Kitra Skene wrote:
Fascinating. I like the way you've essentially adapted elemental powers but over senses rather than elements.
Thanks!

I'm thinking of splitting somatic illusion powers into two kinds of power, though - maybe one over external touch sensations (like pressure, texture, &c) and another over internal touch sensations (like pain, sense of where your body parts are, &c).
Lady Kitra Skene wrote:
Isn't there a lot of crossover between gustatorists and olfactorists, since those two senses are closely linked?
There is a lot of crossover, and so I imagine that gustatorists and olfactorists would often work together when creating illusions of flavor. However, olfactorists are much rarer than gustatorists, so you can't always hire both. Cheaper restaurants, for example, would only hire gustatorists. So maybe they'd tend to serve distinctive foods whose flavor relies more on your taste buds than your nose...or they would only use spices that would affect the smell, and rely on gustatorists to provide the other elements of flavor...
I personally have never noticed food tasting strange when I can't smell properly, so I do have trouble sometimes respecting the science that says smell is a large part of flavor.

Lady Kitra Skene wrote:
Can somaticists give people phantom pains or itches?
Yup!
Lady Kitra Skene wrote:
Can they just numb someone's sense instead of casting an illusion?
They would project an illusion of there being no information coming from that sense. So an illusion of silence or numbness, for instance. This is pretty difficult to do, though, since the more sensory information you're changing with your illusion, the more concentration it requires to sustain it.
Lady Kitra Skene wrote:
I bet the ones who work in food and entertainment get a lot of great working vacations...
Oh yes.

I envy the visualist theater worker who gets to look at pretty pictures of scenery all day to prepare the set for a new illusionist play...
Lady Kitra Skene wrote:
Would the picture ever have something in it at all? Because the camera doesn't know something is being projected, so wouldn't the illusionist have to project an image onto the paper/camera screen and the floor?
Illusionists project onto somebody's brain, and then the brain interprets the signals as it would any other sensory information from the eyes, nose, &c. Thus illusionists can make somebody's mind
think that a picture has something in it, but there's no way that they can affect the actual picture. So basically, illusionists just affect people's minds - they never actually change reality.
Lady Kitra Skene wrote:
Are illusions easier to detect if you have glasses or hearing aids so that the image or sound is sharper than it ought to be as though it's photoshopped? I bet tinted glasses would really help with that... Or black and white settings on cameras, if the illusion was impressed on the floor and the screen...
Yes! Great idea! You could check if something is a visual illusion by covertly looking at it through tinted glasses, so the illusionist isn't aware that you're using glasses. If the image doesn't change as it should, then you know it's an illusion. Or maybe if you were looking for auditory illusions, you could wear tiny hearing-aid-like devices that somehow affect all the sounds coming through it...so then if you hear a sound that hasn't been affected by the device, you know that it's an auditory illusion.
Lady Kitra Skene wrote:
Why aren't there more illusionists among the rich? Wouldn't they still be rich if they had those skills?
Well, let me rephrase that. I think there would still be plenty of illusionists among the rich, but not that many
professional illusionists. See, most illusionist jobs are middle-class - they involve skilled mental labor and pay pretty well. They're attractive to people from the low or middle class. But someone from the high class wouldn't want to lower themselves to a job like that. People from the rich high classes would typically have leadership and management sorts of jobs, not jobs involving what they consider "labor", even if it is mental and skilled. The high class might find higher-level illusionist jobs, like certain secret work for the government, higher-level teaching, &c more satisfactory, but they wouldn't have a great chance of getting those jobs.
An analogy: Imagine that you were born with a talent for composition, so that you love creating music and are pretty good at it. But you really don't want to just be your average or even your above-average composer who isn't that well known. You'll only be satisfied as a professional composer if you can be really famous. But there isn't a big chance of your becoming that famous. So you decide to instead pursue some other job that you have a lower standard of success for and just compose for fun on the side. I think this is how rich illusionists would usually act. Most illusionist jobs are below them; they have a very small chance of getting a job that fits their station in society. So they'd probably pursue something else and perhaps just learn how to use their powers for fun.
Karthmin wrote:
Okay! I finally read it.
Nice! I like this magic system, and how you've integrated it into the world so thoroughly. I think that's pretty awesome.
Thanks!

Karthmin wrote:
Where does the government get its power? I mean, have there always been illusionists? Or did illusionists show up and then the government acted to make them tools of the government?
Thanks for bringing this up! I have thought about this some (though probably not as much as I should!), and here's the answer. It goes back to my thoughts on how this world initially came to be.
So, in the universe that this world and that Sheesania are both in, there's a race of very intelligent, advanced beings called Sheesans who have various settlements and projects going on all over the universe. Sheesans originally brought humans to Sheesania, from Earth, as part of an experiment. Some time later on (maybe 2000 BC, or 800 BC? not sure), they brought humans to the illusionist world as part of another experiment. These humans just woke up one day in the illusionist world having no memory of ever getting there, but with all their other memories intact. The only new thing they knew was a language that the Sheesans developed and gave to them so everyone could communicate, as the people they chose for the experiment were from all different races, groups, &c as well as from different parts of society.
These people had nothing except the clothes they were wearing and the natural resources around them, so people who knew how to use those natural resources became the most valuable and powerful in the resulting new society. Farmers, hunters, &c were on top, because they controlled the food and they were also the only ones who could make good weapons from the supplies they had at hand - there were skilled workers like blacksmiths among the settlers, but they didn't have the resources like iron ore needed for their crafts. Now a lot of these farmers and hunters had been oppressed by the upper classes in their old societies, so in retaliation many of them treated those weak in the new society badly, since they were the same people who had once oppressed them. So basically you ended up with a farming upper-class and a lower-class skilled in various crafts that are only useful in a more advanced society.
Once this new society was just barely stable, the Sheesans gave about half of the population illusionist powers. This had been the whole point of their experiment all along - to see how people would use illusionist powers.
The lower-class noticed their new powers first, and were quick to use them to try to get more food and other resources. The upper-class soon realized what was going on, though, and began to retaliate. Eventually the situation became a full war. Visualists and somaticists are incredibly dangerous in combat, so at first hundreds of people were killed by these kinds of illusionists. Once people realized what they were facing, many of them fled and tried to live on their own, but they often couldn't survive or just got into deadly conflicts of their own. Others joined powerful visualists and somaticists in hopes of being protected...but then said visualists and somaticists began to focus their energies on killing each other to take more power, which often involved slaughtering the illusionist's followers. In short, there was chaos. People were dying, valuable resources like food were being destroyed, and society was falling apart.
One of the most powerful visualists who had gained a following was a man who I'm going to call Eteroos for now; the name's subject to change, though. He was one of the original settlers and had been the son of an important nobleman back in his old society on Earth, so he had experience with leadership and power. For a while Eteroos used his powers to try to militarily defeat the other illusionists, hoping to stop the fighting and re-establish society...but soon he became convinced that it would be a long time before he could defeat everyone else, and that if the fighting didn't stop soon, it would be extremely difficult for anyone left to survive because so much had been destroyed. (Even natural resources were getting ruined - forests burned, streams poisoned, &c.) So he stopped fighting, gathered as many people as he could, and retreated to the top of a large hill where he could easily spot anyone that was coming. There he used his illusionist powers to hide the people staying there.
Eteroos told his followers that he believed they would all die if they did not let him control them and place restrictions on how illusionists could use their powers. Most of the people were non-illusionists or weak illusionists and so they were happy to oblige, but a few were more powerful and weren't quite as willing to submit to Eteroos's will. However, they soon discovered that he would personally kill any insubordinate illusionists. Non-illusionists who didn't obey him might get mercy, but illusionists would be killed without pity, simply because their powers made them so potentially dangerous. So soon all his followers that were left were willing to obey him as long as he continued protecting them.
Eteroos then trained squads of his followers to infiltrate other groups, kill their leaders and other dangerous illusionists, and tell their followers about Eteroos's safe haven on the top of the hill. He allowed people to join him, but only in small groups. Then his followers could watch them carefully for a while to make sure that none of them were dangerous illusionists who would cause problems.
Eventually all the other groups had joined Eteroos, been killed, or gotten small enough that they weren't a threat, and so Eteroos and his followers left their hill and began to establish a new society with Eteroos as king. It was at this point that he finally began to openly teach a new religion that had been slowly developing during the time on the hill. He taught that humans and their old world had been made by the (good) Gods of Order, but then some humans had been taken by the (evil) Gods of Chaos to this new world. Because they were still children of Order, though, they soon began to form a stable society (that was the society with the farmers and hunters on top, though really it was hardly stable). This angered the Gods of Chaos, who then cursed them with illusionist powers, so that now humans had elements of both Order and Chaos. But if they controlled their illusionist powers and used them to build a stable civilization, Eteroos said, they would be returning to their original good state of Order, resisting the evils of Chaos. His system was basically dualistic - by doing good things, you helped the good Gods of Order; by doing bad things, especially bad things using illusionist powers, you helped the evil Gods of Chaos.
In this system, Eteroos had himself as the chief representative of the Gods of Order to humankind, and thus he had the authority to be king and control how illusionist powers were used. Nobody wanted to defy him because 1) he was so personally powerful, and 2) he was so popular for having saved them and ended the war. So Eteroos established a system of law that punished crimes committed using illusionist powers especially harshly, and he continued to pound his religious ideas into the minds of his followers. He wanted everyone to think that illusionist powers, if not controlled (by him, of course), were
evil. It was evil to murder someone, yes, but if you murdered someone using your visualist powers, that was like murdering someone and sacrificing them to Satan: you were actively, knowingly supporting the evil Gods of Chaos as well as doing something bad.
Eteroos had killed so many illusionists in his rise to power that now only about 8% of the population even had illusionist powers. He kept a careful watch on all these people. Through his religion he tried to make the rest of society suspicious of them, but still willing to accept them if they didn't use their powers...or, even better, used them for good. And the only way to use them for good was to control them as the Gods of Order would have you control them...and Eteroos was the messenger of the Gods of Order. So he became the source for all illusionist training and jobs. At first he just personally trained a very few illusionists and then had them work closely with him. But over time, as his hold on society became more established, he felt comfortable training more illusionists and also having others under him doing training.
It's been thousands of years in the illusionist world since Eteroos established his society, but much of what he did still lingers. Other countries with different attitudes towards illusionists have split off from Eteroos's country, and even Eteroos's country has gotten more lax. The religious climate has also changed - there have been all sorts of new religions and new offshoots of Eteroos's ideas developed. But in many countries, using illusions for crime still has an air to it of evil. In this world there might be stories about cute street urchins picking pockets, but they would never use illusions to do so. The one using illusions would be the evil abusive crime boss. So basically, in this world most people - both illusionists and non-illusionists - have a sense that illusionist powers are something tainted, maybe even evil, and that they need to be controlled...and that the body best able to control them is the government, ordained by the Gods of Order. So in the end
the government gets their power over illusionists from a religious idea, from something deeply ingrained in culture, from people's fear of chaos.I imagine the society I talked about in my first post as the descendant of Eteroos's kingdom, the one that has most closely kept with his governmental structure and ideas. But there are plenty of other countries in this world that treat illusionist powers differently.
Karthmin wrote:
To me, it would make more sense in-world to have illusionists as integral parts of the government, because they have the power, rather than being exclusively used by the government, which is the picture I picked up from what you wrote.
Hmm, I'm not sure if I made myself clear, or maybe I'm misunderstanding you.

Even though they are used by the government, illusionists are also integral parts of it; they're just not necessarily the top leaders. Illusionists form significant segments of the army, police force, spy network, &c and thus are much of the backbone of the government's power. But the top leaders in the government aren't necessarily illusionists themselves. Think about the US government. Some parts of it have a sort of raw power: the army, the police force. But the leaders controlling the raw power - Congress, the President - have other sorts of power: popularity with the people, connections, knowledge, personal charisma and strength of will. It's similar in this illusionist society. Good illusionists have a sort of raw power that would allow them to take control if they wanted - just like the army could probably take over the US government if it wanted. But people with more subtle powers still rule over the illusionists, just as politicians with more subtle powers still control the army.
The fact that illusionist powers are associated with Chaos and the government with Order gives a certain balancing tension to this relationship. The illusionists have a raw power over the government - if they wanted they could use their powers to take over. But the government is the representative of Order and, thus, good. So if the illusionists DID try to take over, most of society would see them as the bad guys. So in the end, the government is going to try to keep the illusionists happy, but the illusionists are also going to try to keep the government happy, because both could ruin each other in different ways - the illusionists could ruin the government physically; the government could ruin the illusionists in the realm of public support.
Okay, I hope I've understood and answered your question thoroughly, even though I'm sick and I think that answer was a bit rambling.

Thanks again!