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A Thought on Goblins
https://archive.holyworlds.org/viewtopic.php?f=244&t=7627		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Kelcin [ March 8th, 2013, 9:43 am ]
Post subject:  A Thought on Goblins
So I was thinking. We all know the way Dwaves in Snow White have a specific personality based on one emotional/condition: Sneezy, Sleepy, Grumpy, Killer, etc.
What if Goblins worked the same way, but their one condition is a sin. So you get a trio of Goblins, Glutton, Hate, and Lazy. Lazy will be a lazy goblin, Hate will be a hateful Goblin, and Glutton is worried about eating.
Of course, they don't have to have the sin as their name, just as their defining bit.
Author:  Seer of Endor [ March 8th, 2013, 1:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A Thought on Goblins
Well, other than the fact that it perpetuates the evil-goblin stereotype, I think it's an intriguing idea. :)
Author:  Andorin [ March 12th, 2013, 11:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A Thought on Goblins
Mimetes the Seer wrote:
Well, other than the fact that it perpetuates the evil-goblin stereotype, I think it's an intriguing idea. :)


Do you think Goblins should not fit this stereotype? I would be interested to meet a friendly Goblin, and I could honestly say I doubt I would trust them. Is there such a thing as a redeemed Goblin?

I would also be interested to see the sin-name idea played out. Would their names eventually become part of their demise? Perhaps they could influence other characters in their particular specialty, claiming that it is the best route on whatever road the prorogation is on. The Goblin called Hate would want the protagonist to use him as a means to the end the protagonist is seeking, while Lie would try and convince the protagonist that he is the more clever and effective way.
Author:  Airianna Valenshia [ March 12th, 2013, 12:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A Thought on Goblins
Goblins freaked me out as a child. O.O Although, the goblins in Princess and the Goblins were both terrifying and fascinating to me as a child. :D
Author:  Aletheia [ March 12th, 2013, 2:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A Thought on Goblins
Could a race of non-evil goblins work? My "goblins" are a short, green-skinned, foul-mouthed merchant race, and they have the potential for good or bad. But I'm not sure whether I should call them goblins, since the name is traditionally monstrous and all.
Author:  Aratrea [ March 12th, 2013, 3:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A Thought on Goblins
Aletheia wrote:
Could a race of non-evil goblins work? My "goblins" are a short, green-skinned, foul-mouthed merchant race, and they have the potential for good or bad. But I'm not sure whether I should call them goblins, since the name is traditionally monstrous and all.


I don't have a traditionally monstrous view of goblins... of course that may be that my perception of goblins is more heavily influenced through board games I've played with goblins in them than of books I've read about them...
Author:  Seer of Endor [ March 13th, 2013, 1:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A Thought on Goblins
Aletheia wrote:
But I'm not sure whether I should call them goblins, since the name is traditionally monstrous and all.
Well that's just the thing. The monstrous connotations of the word "goblin" are a relatively modern contrivance, in origins, they were more akin in nature to brownies or other household fairies, but with a more mischievous (and sometimes malevolent) nature. Over time they acquired more and more of an ominous reputation until they eventually became equated with demons or other impish monstrosities.

So no, goblins don't necessarily be evil. I remember one book that really awakened this perception: The Goblin Wood by Hilari Bell. Her whole take on Goblins was fairly original in terms of fantasy authors and I loved the book. Not that that's a recommendation for the book overall, but I did like how she reinvented goblins.

Also I just finished Shadow Prowler by Alexey Pehov, which also has goblins as a non-evil race. Of course, it's a Russian book translated into English, so it's not a total surprise that it doesn't look exactly like every other American fantasy novel ;)

But I didn't mean for my comment about the evil-goblin stereotype to totally hijack Kelcin's thread, so I'll just summarize that no, goblins as a race don't necessarily have to be evil anymore than elves have to be good. Sorry about the hijacking, Kelcin. :blush:
Author:  kingjon [ March 15th, 2013, 9:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A Thought on Goblins
Mimetes the Seer wrote:
Well that's just the thing. The monstrous connotations of the word "goblin" are a relatively modern contrivance, in origins, they were more akin in nature to brownies or other household fairies, but with a more mischievous (and sometimes malevolent) nature. Over time they acquired more and more of an ominous reputation until they eventually became equated with demons or other impish monstrosities.

Mimetes the Seer wrote:
so I'll just summarize that no, goblins as a race don't necessarily have to be evil anymore than elves have to be good.

Before Seer gave his mini-treatise, I was intending to say, myself, that the idea of elves as something other than "mischievous, sometimes malevolent" fairies dates, essentially, to Tolkien ... so there's strong precedent for subverting the common perception like this. :)
Author:  Lyndsey [ March 15th, 2013, 9:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A Thought on Goblins
Goblins are defined in the dictionary:
A grotesque elfin creature of folklore, thought to work mischief or evil.
Like others have noted, some are mischievous. Others evil.
In writing today, I think the original thinker prevails over the standardized.
If you created a goblin family/clan/individual that hungered to be good, it could create a provocative story and open possibilities.
On the other hand, archetypes work because people identify the character quickly and form either a following or enemy status, so I guess it depends on what you want to use it for.
Bottom line: in a fantasy, you are free to make anything your way. You just have to convince the reader to buy into your version of things.
S. Meyers changed vampires. Perhaps you could change goblins. :D
Author:  Suiauthon Mimetes [ March 15th, 2013, 10:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A Thought on Goblins
In regards to Goblin stereotypes, you might be interested in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=6166.
Author:  Roager the Ogre [ March 15th, 2013, 11:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A Thought on Goblins
I say go ahead and do whatever you want with the goblins in your story! They are a fictional race, there are no rules to how fictional creatures should always be, no guidelines to adhere by, so your goblins can be whatever you want them to be. :D
Author:  Suiauthon Mimetes [ March 18th, 2013, 10:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A Thought on Goblins
I would propose one rule: be consistent. However, even that rule can probably be disobeyed every once in a while.
Author:  Turtleman [ April 1st, 2013, 4:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A Thought on Goblins
Mimetes the Seer wrote:
Well, other than the fact that it perpetuates the evil-goblin stereotype, I think it's an intriguing idea. :)


After many long sessions of interacting with goblins in rp's and video games I can tell you without any reservations that stereotypes (At least where goblins are concerned) exist for a reason.
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