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Real-world languages for dwarves?
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Author:  Rachel Newhouse [ March 26th, 2012, 10:53 am ]
Post subject:  Real-world languages for dwarves?
I need help picking a real-world language for one of my cultures in Erde. Most of my races speak a real-world language (although I am inventing one language for the exercise), and I'm not sure what language to give my northern races. I haven't developed this area much yet, but the northern edge of my world is dominated by mountains, which fade into some plains. Not many forests. The climate is cold in the mountains, tending towards more moderate in the plains. The dominant race will be dwarves, I think, but there will probably also be humans. Probably not elves or giants. The races will be hearty and brave - frontiersmen, miners, and hunters.

Any thoughts what real-world language might have a good essence for this culture? I'm already using German for my dominant human race, and French for my elves. I was thinking possibly Russian or Gaelic, maybe something Scandinavian, for my dwarves. Any ideas?
Author:  kingjon [ March 26th, 2012, 11:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Real-world languages for dwarves?
I'd argue for the Scandinavian option; that "feels" to me like the best fit for the setting and culture you've described, and Norse languages feel "traditional" for dwarves. (Though that may just be Tolkien's influence on my thinking shining through.) On the other hand, any of the languages you listed could work fine, so it might be best to go with whichever one you have the best source for.
Author:  Aragorn [ March 26th, 2012, 3:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Real-world languages for dwarves?
I was thinking Scandinavian, too, though I agree with kingjon that the others would work. Of Gaelic and Russian, Russian might be the better of the two for this purpose.
Author:  Sam Starrett [ March 26th, 2012, 8:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Real-world languages for dwarves?
Jonathan Garner wrote:
I was thinking Scandinavian, too, though I agree with kingjon that the others would work. Of Gaelic and Russian, Russian might be the better of the two for this purpose.


Maybe I'm just being contrary, but I favor Gaelic. Why?

"In English-language folklore, the Scottish share many characteristics with fantasy dwarves. Both are tough, dour, canny mountain folk who are good at engineering and hold grudges forever; the similarity even makes sense to a Scot. This is why a Scots accent “feels right” for a dwarf. In the Lord of the Rings movies Peter Jackson gave Gimli a Scottish accent, with reason." --Eric S. Raymond, Battle for Wesnoth Campaign Design How-To
Author:  kingjon [ March 26th, 2012, 10:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Real-world languages for dwarves?
Hmm. I can see your point, but I still feel that Norse languages fit the culture better---if the land were a set of peninsulas rather than just mountains and plains, it would (from Aubrey's description, provided some of the dwarves were somewhat able sailors) probably send many of them "a-viking", just as the Little Ice Age (if I recall correctly) did in our own history. And (unless my memory of Erde itself "fading" and falling apart primarily at the north is incorrect) I think Norse myth provides nice parallels to the dwarves' situation.
Author:  Rachel Newhouse [ March 27th, 2012, 11:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Real-world languages for dwarves?
Thanks for all the great feedback, guys! This is just what I need. :D

I always associated Gaelic with the Irish, actually. I didn't realize the Scots spoke it.

While the only water on Erde are some rivers and a few lakes, yes, "viking" is a good comparison for my dwarves. That's the kind of lifestyle I am envisioning. Would you recommend Scandinavian specifically, then, or another language from that region?

I should study Norse myth when I get into this culture. Thanks for the idea! :D

It's worth nothing that Scandinavia, France, and Germany are all in fairly close proximity in the "real world," so lumping those cultures together on a fantasy planet has an element of realism.
Author:  kingjon [ March 27th, 2012, 11:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Real-world languages for dwarves?
Aubrey Hansen wrote:
While the only water on Erde are some rivers and a few lakes, yes, "viking" is a good comparison for my dwarves. That's the kind of lifestyle I am envisioning.

I'm glad to hear that my thinking was along the same lines as yours. :)
Aubrey Hansen wrote:
Would you recommend Scandinavian specifically, then, or another language from that region?

To the best of my knowledge there isn't a single "Scandinavian language" :); rather, that's a family of related languages, sort of like the Romance languages, only perhaps somewhat less divergent. (If you have a few different groups, you might use different Scandinavian languages for the different groups, perhaps.)

Aubrey Hansen wrote:
I should study Norse myth when I get into this culture. Thanks for the idea! :D

When I was growing up, a couple of books of retellings of the Norse myths were (along with Andrew Lang's books of fairy tales) some of my favorite books, which I read over and over and over. Not much of the detail stuck in my memory (because I read them so fast), but the general sense of the milieu endures.
Author:  Rachel Newhouse [ March 27th, 2012, 2:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Real-world languages for dwarves?
Now you have me wanting to send my dwarves out a-viking. :roll:

That's what I thought, about Scandinavian languages, but it's not a region I've studied, so I wasn't sure. :)
Author:  kingjon [ March 27th, 2012, 3:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Real-world languages for dwarves?
Aubrey Hansen wrote:
Now you have me wanting to send my dwarves out a-viking. :roll:

They can still go out to the surrounding lands and try to raid and/or settle there :). It's just that overland attacks are generally easier to defend against than naval ones (unless you have a navy yourself, which the Vikings' victims did not).
Author:  Rachel Newhouse [ March 28th, 2012, 1:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Real-world languages for dwarves?
*nods* I am pondering it. :D
Author:  Sam Starrett [ March 28th, 2012, 10:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Real-world languages for dwarves?
Aubrey Hansen wrote:
Thanks for all the great feedback, guys! This is just what I need. :D

I always associated Gaelic with the Irish, actually. I didn't realize the Scots spoke it.


Well, you're right to an extent. Gaelic is more a family of languages than a single tongue. The higher, literary form of Gaelic from the 13th to the 18th centuries, used both by Scots and Irish in their literature, was the Early Modern Irish form (also called Classical Gaelic). But the Scots have their own Gaelic language too.

Aubrey Hansen wrote:
While the only water on Erde are some rivers and a few lakes, yes, "viking" is a good comparison for my dwarves. That's the kind of lifestyle I am envisioning. Would you recommend Scandinavian specifically, then, or another language from that region?

I should study Norse myth when I get into this culture. Thanks for the idea! :D

It's worth nothing that Scandinavia, France, and Germany are all in fairly close proximity in the "real world," so lumping those cultures together on a fantasy planet has an element of realism.


Scandinavian languages do make a fair amount of sense. I was mostly arguing against Russian.
Author:  Rachel Newhouse [ March 28th, 2012, 11:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Real-world languages for dwarves?
Thanks for clarifying that, Sam!

Do y'all have a particular Scandinavian tongue you would recommend I start with?
Author:  kingjon [ March 29th, 2012, 12:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Real-world languages for dwarves?
Aubrey Hansen wrote:
Do y'all have a particular Scandinavian tongue you would recommend I start with?

No, sorry; my only experience with Scandinavian literature is in retellings. (Not even just in translation ...)
Author:  Rachel Newhouse [ March 29th, 2012, 12:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Real-world languages for dwarves?
*nods* I'll do some researching and let y'all know what I decide. :D Thanks so much for the suggestions!
Author:  Andrew Amnon Mimetes [ March 30th, 2012, 4:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Real-world languages for dwarves?
I'm willing to vouch for Russian and Norwegian *grins* If you want to go with the Norwegian or Swedish and want a feel for Scandinavian names then the Kalevala is a must-read :D

Andrew
Author:  Rachel Newhouse [ March 30th, 2012, 11:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Real-world languages for dwarves?
Thanks so much for the suggestions, Andrew! :D I am liking the sound of Norwegian (and by that I mean the "essence" of the name...).
Author:  Andrew Amnon Mimetes [ March 30th, 2012, 11:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Real-world languages for dwarves?
*nods* It's a very awesome language :D

Andrew
Author:  Seer of Endor [ May 9th, 2012, 10:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Real-world languages for dwarves?
Andrew, the Kalevala is Finnish, which is in a totally different language family from the Scandinavian tongues.
Aubrey, I would suggest Ancient Icelandic, but mostly because that's the one I play around with the most ;) If you decide to go with it, let me know and I'll shoot you some links to helpful resources :D
Author:  The Bard [ June 1st, 2012, 8:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Real-world languages for dwarves?
How about Anglo Saxon? Or Danish? Or even old Norse.
Author:  Airianna Valenshia [ June 8th, 2012, 9:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Real-world languages for dwarves?
Norse would be cool. Similar essence, I think.
Author:  Seer of Endor [ July 18th, 2012, 11:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Real-world languages for dwarves?
When looking for sources online, Old Norse = Old Icelandic, basically :)
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