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Creating a Magic System
https://archive.holyworlds.org/viewtopic.php?f=244&t=4037		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Donn Quixote [ August 3rd, 2011, 7:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Creating a Magic System
Here's the deal.

I have a world filled with magic, but it's not like the magic you find in Harry Potter and it isn't anything like X-Men where each mutant has a different power.

My characters:
Each are more talented in one side of the spectrum of magic. For instance, a part of the magic that they are better at in controlling. There are no spells required, no wands, broomsticks, or magical words. (Eg: The Elven language.)

But to wield this magic you need a very precise level of concentration. The type of magic you use is also affected by emotions and memories and the mental state of the magician.

The problem is, I'm not exactly how to make this work. I want my characters to have limitations, but, right now, I don't think they do.

I'm trying to create a system of magic that doesn't exactly follow the normal guidelines of magic use. Any questions, thoughts, or suggestions?

God Bless,
-Donn Q.
Author:  Way-chan [ August 3rd, 2011, 9:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Creating a Magic System
I think I understand what you are talking about. I remember reading a book with this sort of magic once. I don't remember the title or premise though.
But, it makes sense. Wands and words and everything, I mean, it is traditional, and that is fine, but sometimes we want to branch out.
I think that it is more of an inner connection, if that makes sense. It is a sense inside them, that they can control (or not in some cases) by great concentration.
As to them being too powerful, you could easily say, that because they need to use great concentration to control their magic, using magic drains them and tires them. After using magic once, they might need several hours, even days, of rest before being able to properly control it once more.
Author:  Suiauthon Mimetes [ August 3rd, 2011, 11:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Creating a Magic System
Way-chan has some good ideas. You could also make it so that certain emotions and memories are destructive to the "magic" or their concentration.
Author:  Whythawye [ August 5th, 2011, 6:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Creating a Magic System
Those are good ideas. :)

If you are trying to shy away from the more mechanical rules and regulations of magic, then I think trying to create arbitrary limits to the power might conflict with that.

I would suggest making it very natural and spontaneous in a sense. Try to tap into the concept of commanding the 'feel' of what they want, without being able to actually precisely control things.
Author:  Way-chan [ August 5th, 2011, 1:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Creating a Magic System
Sir Emeth, did you mean like a power inside of them that they can suggest to do things, but can't completely control?
Author:  Whythawye [ August 6th, 2011, 2:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Creating a Magic System
I mean more like dream control in a lucid dream, but I'm having a hard time describing it. :P
Author:  Donn Quixote [ August 16th, 2011, 9:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Creating a Magic System
I think I see what all of you are getting at....

@Sir Emeth
If it is like a "lucid dream" in controlling it, and "commanding the feel" of what they want, wouldn't that give them too much power?

@Sui
If the memories are destructive, then what basis is their power on? Where does it come from?

There are some things I refrained from saying earlier in my posts.

They each have a gift with this magic and parts of the magic are easier to do, but I need some magic reserved for the King of the Lights. That is what I meant by limitations.

I may not have completely understood what you have been trying to get across. If this is the case, please forgive me.

Any thoughts or suggestions?
God Bless,
Donn Q.
Author:  Whythawye [ August 16th, 2011, 10:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Creating a Magic System
Not really. It takes a lot of practice and focus and skill and even natural talent to control dreams properly.
Author:  Donn Quixote [ August 16th, 2011, 10:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Creating a Magic System
Very true, Sir Emeth. I hadn't looked at it in that light. Thank you.
Author:  Seer of Endor [ September 2nd, 2011, 9:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Creating a Magic System
Donn Quixote wrote:
They each have a gift with this magic and parts of the magic are easier to do, but I need some magic reserved for the King of the Lights. That is what I meant by limitations.
It might help to understand what all the "parts" of your magic are. How is magic divided up in your system?
Author:  Reiyen [ September 3rd, 2011, 9:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Creating a Magic System
I designed, though never used, a system much like this once. I described it in these two posts:
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=2113
and
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=2946

Either, both, (or hopefully not neither) of those may be helpful to you.
Author:  Roundelais [ September 3rd, 2011, 12:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Creating a Magic System
Sounds a wee bit like The Force, though minus those bothersome midi-chlorians. ~_^

If use of ambient magic is intuitive, and strength and ability rely on practice and experience, the limitations could actually be fairly inherent - there are some things that you can't quite pull off (or accomplish reliably), no matter how hard you try or how much you practice.

Compare the magic to mundane abilities. I'm fairly weak when it comes to mathematics, not because I'm incapable of understanding (eventually I get it) but I have a hard time wrapping my head around certain small facets and a great deal of trouble retaining the information unless I'm using it on a regular basis.

Maybe your limitations could be similar - even if they figure out what they want to do that you (as the author) want to limit them in, they have difficulty retaining the knowledge - even though it's something that makes perfect sense to someone else and that they can do easily without much thought. As long as you don't allow a character to develop a very wide variety of talents, this could take care of your problem. Then again, if they DO have a wide variety of talents, you could go the "jack of all trades, master of none" route - if they've spread their dedication and study so thin, they won't be as strong in any one particular area.

I guess what suggests this method to me is a device that Robin McKinley uses in Pegasus, which I've read recently. In Pegaus, humans and pegasi have formed an alliance and have attempted to develop a good working societal relationship that's been hindered by the language barrier. The two main protagonists are special because they can communicate telepathically, and they discover throughout the course of the book that something has been hindering their ability to learn and practice each others' languages - even when humans manage to pick up some pegasi vocabulary, they forget it very, very quickly due to some magical interference. I tied that in with my own problems with retaining certain academic data. My husband's got a different set of skills - he's great at retaining math, but can forget what has happened at the beginning of a book by the time he reaches the end, and while he loves history, he has a very hard time remembering it.
Author:  Aldara [ September 28th, 2011, 10:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Creating a Magic System
Is the magic they're using coming from inside themselves or from an outside force?
They could be limited by how much they're concentrating, and I like the idea of bad memories. A memory that hurt you, or reminds you of failure can break your concentration, and destroy the spell. A good memory could do that as well, if it's a distraction.
Or, perhaps good thought/memories will improve the power of the spell, while bad/sad/angry thoughts or memories will taint the spell, causing it to not work properly.
Hope that helps.
Author:  Donn Quixote [ September 30th, 2011, 7:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Creating a Magic System
Sorry I haven't been around! Been busy! You all have definitely given me some food for thought. I am definitely still developing my magic.

@Seer
What do you mean by all the parts of my magic? At one point, I understood what you were asking but that point has passed and I have no clue what to say or where to go from here.

@Reiyen
Thanks for the thought. Very interesting...I may look at it again at some point. Thanks!

@Roundelais
Interesting theory. If they don't practice, they can't retain it. But how will they practice if it's not spells? I think that's where I'm struggling.

@Aldara
It's partly both. There is an outside force which is The Lights and the King of the Lights (aka the Overseer.) But there is also an inside force. Within themselves there is a gift. If they do not recognize the gift, they cannot do magic. So technically, it comes from the Overseer but cannot be used without recognition. Does that make sense? It's a little of both.

I think I'm struggling with wrapping my head around my own magic system because I'm not sure what it is going to do or be. And it's a little difficult for me to think of something completely new that doesn't follow the traditional spells, wands, or mutants. So I thank you for all your help...now let this continue...and see if it goes anywhere.

Secondly, I keep ranting and raving about limitations. For instance, my character Ace has a high concentration. One of the hardest things in this magic is creating a realistic thing or picture, such. For instance, she tends to draw the picture in her mind, then maybe in the dirt. Then, if in the dirt, she grabs the dirt, opens her hand, and lets say there a 3D image of her deceased mother floating in her palm.
But since she has such a high concentration, I don't want her to be able to concentrate really hard and be able to...say, fly! Or float, as it may be.

I'll use an example from another book I'm working on. I have this telekinesis character, or, in other words, he can move things with his mind: people, rocks, doors. But I don't want him to be able to move a house or even a castle!

So do you guys kind of get what I'm saying about limitations? It's not just ability. Or concentration. There needs to be some sort of limitation, you know?

...But perhaps I'm just overreacting about it. Overthinking it. Am I?

Thanks!
God Bless,
-Donn Q.
Author:  Varon [ September 30th, 2011, 7:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Creating a Magic System
Even with high concentration, I don't think you could move a house or castle. The character would have to keep everything from simply collapsing beneath their own weight plus move it. Not to mention the weight.
Author:  Aldara [ October 23rd, 2011, 9:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Creating a Magic System
Okay. But within themselves is not only a gift but also that part of every human that's evil, yes?
This theory depends on how active other spirits are in your worlds. Do you have an equivalent to demons or to the devil? Because perhaps, if they're so busy concentrating on their gift, they aren't defending the footholds for evil that otherwise wouldn't be there. Perhaps this gives demons power to feed you distractions and break your concentration, or even to twist the gift and make them do things that are going to hinder them. Maybe if she's making a hologram of her mother, then it's twisted, the hologram gets big and tries to kill her.
This all depends on how your world views angels/demons.
Author:  Donn Quixote [ October 27th, 2011, 5:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Creating a Magic System
I'll have to get back to you on that, Aldara. I'm still working on planning out the Hell in my world.

God Bless
-Donn Q.
Author:  Green Mist [ November 22nd, 2011, 10:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Creating a Magic System
How about if their magic depends on their mood? Like, if they're angry, the magic is out of control. If they are sad, the magic is weak. If they are excited the magic is powerful. Stuff like that. :D Hope I helped!
Author:  Abiah Idhrenniel [ December 3rd, 2011, 8:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Creating a Magic System
It could be that the magic and concentration tires them, like for some characters a certain kind of magic could tire them more than another. To limit the ablility, the King of the Lights could have more strength than the other characters so he can accomplish more things without tiring.
Author:  Seer of Endor [ December 5th, 2011, 1:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Creating a Magic System
Donn Quixote wrote:
@Seer
What do you mean by all the parts of my magic? At one point, I understood what you were asking but that point has passed and I have no clue what to say or where to go from here.
I mean this:
Donn Quixote wrote:
Each are more talented in one side of the spectrum of magic. For instance, a part of the magic that they are better at in controlling. There are no spells required, no wands, broomsticks, or magical words. (Eg: The Elven language.)
You mention the "spectrum" of magic and the "part of magic that they are better in controlling". So what exactly is the "spectrum"? What are some of the different areas that people can be gifted in?
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