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Guns In Fantasy?
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Author:  Bethany Faith [ April 3rd, 2011, 8:17 am ]
Post subject:  Guns In Fantasy?
When I say that I'm going to put guns in one of my fantasy books I am not usually talking about the small hand-held, silver-barreled guns we see in crime dramas today (although...those are pretty cool. ;) ) I'm usually referring to the old 1800's and before kind of rifles that were originally invented.

The only downside to using guns in a fantasy novel is that when somebody says fantasy they immediately think of a very medieval time, before guns were invented and when everybody fought with swords and bows. So, in your opinion, do you think using guns take away from the fantasy feel of a book? Why or why not?

Alright, thank you! :D

Bethany Faith
Author:  Celestria [ April 3rd, 2011, 8:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Guns In Fantasy?
I really don't see a problem with having guns in a fantasy. Sticking with a medieval theme has sort of turned the fantasy genre cliche with thoughts of warriors and swords. The idea of a gun or rifle will give your story a twist they wouldn't expect in normal fantasy! I say go for it! :D
Author:  Lady Elanor [ April 3rd, 2011, 10:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Guns In Fantasy?
I also don't see a problem with this! Sounds like an interesting idea and I'd say go for it too! :D
Author:  Whackem [ April 3rd, 2011, 11:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Guns In Fantasy?
I have a gun in my second. It's a very primitive one but it has a glaive blade beneath the barrel and things like a knobbed stock for use in close combat. It's basically a spear with a hidden advantage.
Author:  KathrineROID [ April 3rd, 2011, 12:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Guns In Fantasy?
Fantasy seems to have been pioneered in medieval, modern, and even futuristic time periods, but rarely in other times periods. It's a dare I really wish people would take more often. So many unexplored possibilities and so few leaders to take us there. I don't know about you, but I'd just love to see elves in pioneer dresses and buckskin. :D Ooh, ooh, I know! Troll women in bustles!

Go with it. This is an opportunity to, as someone has said, break free from a stereotype and create an even more unique land. Truly beyond the the map.
Author:  Elanhil [ April 4th, 2011, 11:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Guns In Fantasy?
I used to have guns in my book, but I took them out when they started to take away too much from the fantasy theme and prevented me from being able to explain away certain things.

In my original plot it probably would've worked. But the revised one involves more spying and stealth chases and stuff, and probably would've evolved into a western novel with magic and elves, rather than fantasy with guns.

But that's not to say that you aren't a better author than me and can still keep the right feel. ;)
Author:  The Bard [ April 4th, 2011, 1:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Guns In Fantasy?
I hope people don't mind guns in fantasy since my dwarves use steampunk guns as their main weapons.
Author:  Varon [ April 4th, 2011, 1:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Guns In Fantasy?
It also depends on whether it's high fantasy, comedic fantasy, steampunk fantasy, or urban fantasy. My urban fantasy superhero story is very modern, and so had guns as well as fantasy elements.
Author:  childoffaith [ April 21st, 2011, 9:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Guns In Fantasy?
I don't see any problems with having guns in a fantasy. It might be a bit trickier to work into the story, though. I actually have read a fantasy with guns. It was Starlighter by Bryan Davis. Good read. Anyway, I think it would be truly refreshing to have someone break the stereotype of medieval fantasy. But I do love a good medieval fantasy, myself.
Keep reading! :book:
Author:  Lord Kieren Mimetes [ May 12th, 2011, 9:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Guns In Fantasy?
I would also like to point out the difference between a rifle and a musket. If they are still using swords and bows, they probably don't have rifles yet. Muskets and rifles are basically the same on the outside, but there is a big difference. The barrel of a musket is just smooth on the inside and is loaded with a lead ball, it isn't very accurate. A rifle, on the other hand, is spiraled on the inside and is loaded with what you typically think of as a bullet. Slightly elongated ending in a point. This causes the bullet to spin as it goes through the barrel and comes out, making it more accurate.

In my series, they have invented a form of grenade. Basically gun powder in a metal case with a fuse on top, but haven't thought of cannons or guns yet.
Author:  Sam Starrett [ June 1st, 2011, 8:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Guns In Fantasy?
My book has 19th-century technology, so guns are pretty common. The last vestiges of the sword in combat still remain, though, primarily in the form of the cavalry sabre. I say go for it!
Author:  Elanhil [ June 3rd, 2011, 1:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Guns In Fantasy?
I don't think guns really belong in fantasy. If you have guns in your fantasy world, I would probably group the story into some other genre...
Author:  Sam Starrett [ June 3rd, 2011, 3:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Guns In Fantasy?
Elánhil wrote:
I don't think guns really belong in fantasy. If you have guns in your fantasy world, I would probably group the story into some other genre...


I disagree. Think of it this way. If a fantasy takes place in a world with more or less the same chemicals and chemical laws as our own, someone will probably invent guns eventually. The fantastic elements, however, will remain fully in play. What genre would works set after that time go in if not fantasy?
Author:  Lord Kieren Mimetes [ June 3rd, 2011, 7:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Guns In Fantasy?
But sometimes you can take it too far, and then it becomes sci-fi, which is by no means a bad thing, but it just kind of takes away the fantasy feel. Muskets would be alright, but farther than that it starts to turn farther and farther away.
Author:  Sam Starrett [ June 3rd, 2011, 9:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Guns In Fantasy?
Well, there's something to that, but on the other hand, aren't Harry Potter and Percy Jackson still considered fantasy, along with an entire genre of "urban fantasy", often involving wizards, vampires, and werewolves living in modern cities?
Author:  Elanhil [ June 4th, 2011, 7:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Guns In Fantasy?
Like has come up before, the line between sci-fi and fantasy is REALLY thin... :P I just know that I can't successfully do it in my writing but that's not to say someone else can't.
Author:  Lord Kieren Mimetes [ June 4th, 2011, 8:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Guns In Fantasy?
I haven't read much "urban fantasy," so I can't really say much about it. Unless you included the Circle Trilogy by Ted Dekker.
Author:  Andrew Amnon Mimetes [ June 6th, 2011, 7:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Guns In Fantasy?
@Elanhil: I thought you had guns in your fantasy...you just said you didn't? :?

eru
Author:  Suiauthon Mimetes [ June 9th, 2011, 1:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Guns In Fantasy?
He got rid of them in the major rewrite, Eru. :)
Author:  Andrew Amnon Mimetes [ June 9th, 2011, 7:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Guns In Fantasy?
Oh, I see. :roll: Too bad; I liked them.

eru
Author:  Elanhil [ June 9th, 2011, 9:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Guns In Fantasy?
I know that you knew that, you just thought you knew I didn't know, and you knew you'd get attention if you said you didn't know.
Author:  Lord Kieren Mimetes [ June 9th, 2011, 2:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Guns In Fantasy?
I don't know about you, but that was confusing! :roll: :D
Author:  Andrew Amnon Mimetes [ June 9th, 2011, 5:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Guns In Fantasy?
I'm officially confused as well :)

eru
Author:  Suiauthon Mimetes [ June 10th, 2011, 1:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Guns In Fantasy?
He replaced them with crossbows (crossbows are cooler than guns). I think he should research his crossbows more though. :P
Author:  Elanhil [ June 10th, 2011, 9:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Guns In Fantasy?
Suiauthon wrote:
He replaced them with crossbows (crossbows are cooler than guns). I think he should research his crossbows more though. :P
Yeah... :P They only play that small role though. I *may* have them in late...*returns to topic* To me, guns can't play a major role...it takes away from the fantasy feel.
Author:  Roager the Ogre [ June 14th, 2011, 12:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Guns In Fantasy?
Quote:
So, in your opinion, do you think using guns take away from the fantasy feel of a book? Why or why not?

I see no problem with guns in fantasy. There are many fantasy stories where guns feel no more out of place as swords used in medieval settings. (Although, early versions of firearms were used in europe as early as the 1300's. Even the term "bulletproof" originated from blacksmiths that shot at their armor and used the dents as proof it could withstand bullets.)

In my opinion, the fantasy feel of a book does not hinge on the which weapons are used but rather on the fantastic elements within the story. I don't think it matters if there is a castle or a skyscraper when something magical is taking place. Your story can have a sword that turns people to ice, a shotgun that sounds like thunder when it lobs out lighting bolts, or just a regular musket used in a fantastic setting, if written well it can still have a fantasy feel in my view.
Author:  Elanhil [ June 14th, 2011, 8:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Guns In Fantasy?
But when you have all these modern elements such as skyscrapers and guns, the story becomes urban fantasy. Guns always stick out like a sore thumb in high fantasy.
Author:  Roager the Ogre [ June 14th, 2011, 12:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Guns In Fantasy?
Quote:
But when you have all these modern elements such as skyscrapers and guns, the story becomes urban fantasy.

Urban fantasy is defined by the story taking place an a city with fantastic elements with a focus on character. Granted, many urban fantasy stories are set in modern times, but the time period of the story and weapon technologies are not defining factors on what is urban fantasy. An urban fantasy story can follow a displaced dwarven bounty hunter in a large city trying to make her living by collecting bounties on illegal wizards using just her sword, wit, and a medallion that hums when someone is lying.

Quote:
Guns always stick out like a sore thumb in high fantasy.

I agree that if not done right guns can stick out in fantasy, that can be true with any weapon technology, but I don’t see why you can't have a high fantasy story that uses civil war-esque weaponry.

I think guns can work in a high fantasy setting because what defines a story as high fantasy is not the use of swords and shields. Star Wars has lasers, spaceships and is set a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, but it is still high fantasy. I don’t think anyone felt lightsabers or lasers were out of place in that story. Peter Pan is high fantasy and it had pirates, cannons, and rifles, even the Wizard of Oz had guns. It is how well you present your world, technology, and fantastic elements to the reader that makes your story and weapons believable.
Author:  Varon [ June 14th, 2011, 1:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Guns In Fantasy?
Star Wars is space opera rather than high fantasy, but they're rather similar. *wonders if that could be a blog post*

Personally, I look for fantasy novels outside of the normal vaguely medieval settings, whether it's set now, 6000 years ago in the stone age, or 150 years ago in the Wild West.

There would be a higher chance of me actually enjoying a fantasy if it had guns that were just as normal in the setting as swords are in average fantasy stories.

I suppose it boils down to the opinion that guns add danger, character, and individuality to stories.
Author:  Elanhil [ June 15th, 2011, 8:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Guns In Fantasy?
Star Wars is definitely sci-fi, because the technologies of that world are all futuristic, and it takes place in our universe.

I guess all of your technology needs to make sense. Guns didn't make sense in my story because there weren't even more advanced versions of simpler technologies (such as crossbows) and there wasn't really a need for guns yet, what with all the magic and other more-powerful and better ways to go about doing what guns are normally used to accomplish.
Author:  Lord Kieren Mimetes [ June 17th, 2011, 7:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Guns In Fantasy?
(Seconds Elanhil) Why have guns if there is no need?

Plus, when you have guns, the technology also would seem to nearly have to increase in other areas. You know, like knocking down dominoes. :dieshappy:
Author:  Svensteel Mimetes [ June 17th, 2011, 9:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Guns In Fantasy?
Yeah I think guns kinda take away from the more fantasy-ish feel of fantasy. Though it's not too bad an idea to have them in fantasy books.
Author:  The Bard [ June 25th, 2011, 10:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Guns In Fantasy?
Quote:
Yeah I think guns kinda take away from the more fantasy-ish feel of fantasy.


That's only because everyone is so used to medieval fantasy that we can't think of it as any different.
Author:  Svensteel Mimetes [ June 25th, 2011, 11:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Guns In Fantasy?
The Bard wrote:
Quote:
Yeah I think guns kinda take away from the more fantasy-ish feel of fantasy.


That's only because everyone is so used to medieval fantasy that we can't think of it as any different.


That's true, pretty much all of my books are in the medieval type-feel of fantasy; no guns there. But I was thinking of making one where it isn't so medievaly; might put guns in there.
Author:  Svensteel Mimetes [ June 25th, 2011, 6:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Guns In Fantasy?
Count of Marti Christo, wasn't that kinda a Victorian feel? They had guns and swords?
Author:  Aeleknight [ July 11th, 2011, 12:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Guns In Fantasy?
In the late medieval period they used primitive guns, cannons and other gunpowder based weapons. I say do it unless your hero is running out with a glock or a walther taking down armies with stone tools. As long as it makes sense in your world do it. I have a gun like weapon in my world however it is not like a gun you would think of.
Author:  Emmalina C. Mimetes [ July 15th, 2011, 9:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Guns In Fantasy?
I think it would be unique to have guns in a fantasy world/book.

It is true that when you think of fantasy, you think of bows and swords. :D
Author:  Aragorn [ July 15th, 2011, 9:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Guns In Fantasy?
Bethany Faith wrote:
So, in your opinion, do you think using guns takes away from the fantasy feel of a book?

Fantasy is a genre where almost anything can happen, including guns in the hand of an elf or dwarf. ;)
Author:  Svensteel Mimetes [ July 16th, 2011, 9:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Guns In Fantasy?
Jonathan Garner wrote:
Bethany Faith wrote:
So, in your opinion, do you think using guns takes away from the fantasy feel of a book?

Fantasy is a genre where almost anything can happen, including guns in the hand of an elf or dwarf. ;)


Well 'tis true very true that it can be used in fantasy. If it should be or not is arguable...
Author:  Elanhil [ July 16th, 2011, 10:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Guns In Fantasy?
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. If it's done right, it can be good. HOW it can be done right, I still have no idea.
Author:  Aeleknight [ July 16th, 2011, 10:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Guns In Fantasy?
Elánhil wrote:
HOW it can be done right, I still have no idea.


I can tell you how it is not done right. If you are trying to maintain a believable fantasy feel then your elf scout should not pull out a sniper rifle on a tree and take down combatants from down below, although that is no victory because your goblins pull out their AT4 and shoot a rocket toward your scout. But luckily using his elf like eyesight and reflexes he is able to dash to another tree meanwhile throwing his elvish handgrenade, blowing up his earnest enemies. As long as they are guns that can fit the time I would use them. If your hero pulls out a Colt 45. you may need to rethink the whole gun idea. Just not so advanced, unless of course it is part of your story.
Author:  Varon [ July 16th, 2011, 11:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Guns In Fantasy?
Fantasy Westerns are cool.

I've been playing with LotR in SF, but I can't find a way for it to work. A modern espionage/secret agent style could work, but not as well.

My latest project is titled Operation: Caliburn and is about WW2 commandos who use weapons that harness ley line energy as well as conventional weaponry.It works.
Author:  Neil of Erk [ July 16th, 2011, 3:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Guns In Fantasy?
LoTR in sci-fi doesn't work. However, Star Wars in Middle-Earth does. *cough* Eragon *cough*

On topic:

Guns can be done very well in fantasy. The key is to just make sure your guns DON'T look exactly like real guns and DO work the same way. This avoid to common cliches: 1) copy cat guns, and 2) guns that are guns but aren't guns because they're different, but not, so they're guns, but not.

;)
Author:  Varon [ July 16th, 2011, 6:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Guns In Fantasy?
Yeah, in SF you just jump to light speed, drop it, and jump back.

I suppose it also depends if it's an alternate world or not. Or maybe if magic in Westerns or war novels are equally good questions to ask.
Author:  Varon [ July 17th, 2011, 6:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Guns In Fantasy?
Or World War Two? In that one, guns would be a must.
Author:  Svensteel Mimetes [ July 17th, 2011, 1:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Guns In Fantasy?
It really depends on what the feel of the fantasy book is.
Author:  Airianna Valenshia [ July 18th, 2011, 9:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Guns In Fantasy?
Okay, I want to make you guys maybe look at this a bit different. How many of you would balk at a cannon in fantasy? My guess is not many of you. I've seen it used as a "super" weapon effectively. Isn't a cannon similar to a gun? Why couldn't you make a gun that resembles a cannon?

I mean, I'm sure not going to write about guns in fantasy, but I think it could be possible, if done carefully.
Author:  Suiauthon Mimetes [ July 19th, 2011, 9:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Guns In Fantasy?
Airianna Valenshia wrote:
Okay, I want to make you guys maybe look at this a bit different. How many of you would balk at a cannon in fantasy? My guess is not many of you. I've seen it used as a "super" weapon effectively. Isn't a cannon similar to a gun? Why couldn't you make a gun that resembles a cannon?

I mean, I'm sure not going to write about guns in fantasy, but I think it could be possible, if done carefully.


That's a good idea. :D
Author:  Airianna Valenshia [ July 19th, 2011, 10:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Guns In Fantasy?
Thanks. :) I just think we are looking at this whole gun thing wrong. Who says a gun has to have a stun effect, or shoot a bullet? Muskets are an older gun form; why not make an even older form that would fit easily into fantasy?

I don't like saying you can't, when it comes to Fantasy. I mean, that's part of the genre appeal. Anything goes. You just have to ponder and figure things out, sometimes, if you really want it in there.
Author:  Svensteel Mimetes [ July 20th, 2011, 11:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Guns In Fantasy?
Fantasy can range anywhere really, though it is most often seen in medieval like times. But it all depends on the book.
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