It's my conviction and the conviction of my parents that if a girl is going to ride a horse, she should ride sidesaddle. This is because riding a regular saddle spreads the legs and is immodest. So, in the stories I write, the girls ride sidesaddle.
In a whole lot of stories (most especially fantasy and usually written by girls) there is a tendency to kind of turn the nose up at girls being ladylike, and to make it sound as though sidesaddles are somehow more uncomfortable than regular saddles.
When I was twelve, we had a neighbor who owned several horses. He found out that we girls couldn't ride unless we had a sidesaddle, so he bought one off of Ebay and fixed it up, and we were able to ride. I've never ridden the other way, except when I was very, very small (like, two years old), so I have no idea whether it's more comfortable or not. However, aside from being achy the day after riding the first time, it was extremely easy to ride. I was even able to jump a few hurdles that our neighbor had, as well as staying on when the horse bucked pretty hard once.
So, the point of all that was wondering what ya'll think about sidesaddles, or if you've ever thought of them before. It used to be that women rode sidesaddle all the time. And as Christian authors, we shouldn't give place to feminism by allowing the women in our stories to be immodest and do everything like a man (besides the fact that most girls have probably never even seen the sidesaddles they so much despise).
I'd love to hear your thoughts!

I horseback ride and I have never ridden sidesaddle, mainly because I am way too scared to try it. I put all my trust in how tightly I can grip the horse when I am riding. That said; I do not particularly despise sidesaddle...I just don't think I have the ability to - confidently - ride that way.

If I were writing, though, I would probably make the girl ride sidesaddle. Mainly for authenticity, but I don't usually have my girls typically ride horses in the first place so it is a problem I have not encountered yet.

Of course, I do wonder if one can ride sidesaddle if somebody else is on the front of the horse and you are on the back... That would not be an area I am very fluent in.

Bethany Faith

Great thoughts..... hm....

I've ridden horses English-style {dressage}, and when I rode I did it normally, not sidesaddle. It was difficult enough, certainly, and I could get pretty sore after a morning of hard riding. I think I'd agree with Bethany that I'd feel safer being able to grip the horse fully. Still, as long as the horse was pretty gentle, I don't think I'd be in actual danger riding sidesaddle!

As to the immodesty of riding astride... I think it depends on your family's convictions. If your family {and especially your father} has problems with ladies riding astride or wearing jeans/pants, then definitely try sidesaddle. But I don't think it's a "sin" to ride astride if your family, parents, and father allow. My two cents.

Everyone should follow their own convictions, especially if you are younger and this is what your parents want you to do!

I ride and my sister wants a career in riding. I have never ridden side saddle, and personally I do not find it immodest to ride astride. Men riding astride could be as stumbling for a woman as a woman riding astride could be stumbling for a man. If you jump large jumps, like my sister, I am not sure if you could do that with side saddle. However, of course you can add it into your books! It is a way of riding. I write historical fiction and the ladies ride side saddle; this is not something that should be laughed at. It is a way of riding and if you feel more comfortable writing about side saddle riding etc., then go ahead and follow your convictions, no matter what you think some people may think of it.

Well, immodesty isn't relative. And if you're wearing pants, then your legs are still spread apart, and it still isn't modest. As for being in control of the horse or not, it's not that much different than riding astride (I was actually trying to remember that word, but couldn't, so I just used the word regular). I rode a pretty spirited horse (the one that bucked) and never had a problem with staying on. Of course, you can't grip with your legs, but unless the horse is just insane, it shouldn't be too much of a problem.
And I don't think it's immodest for a man to ride astride, Lady Elanor.
I think it's all in how society views women nowadays. Back then, modesty was important. Now, with feminism being a huge driving force even among most Christians, it's more important to be able to do everything that a man does like a man does it.

I don't think it is immodest either, Elizabeth. It was just an example idea I was putting out there. Personally I don't find either immodest, but I think it is important to follow your convictions and I certainly think you should add it into your writings no matter how other people may view it.

*Agrees with Elanor*

Well, I definitely wouldn't expect myself able to convince you In fact, I don't know of any other Christians (even the ultra-conservative like Vision Forum) who would think that it's wrong for a girl to ride astride. But it is my deeply held conviction.

And I definitely completely respect that conviction, Laura! Even if you don't "convince" everyone else, you've still done well by faithfully adhering to your convictions, even when literally everyone else doesn't think the same thing.

I ride horses sometimes and I have never ridden a sidesaddle. I ride Western style with jeans. You have to keep in mind safety. Is it safe if a longer skirt could be caught in the sidesaddle or cause the horse to stumble? Or do you wear pants when riding? (Forgive me if I confused anything.)

I think that large jumping with side saddles could be dangerous, actually.

Hmm. The majority of my female characters wear skirts (even the ones who could beat you up with their eyes closed) so I'll probably have sidesaddles when it makes sense. On the other hand, some of them wear split skirts and would probably ride astride, and there may be occasions where a sidesaddle just isn't available. Riding isn't something that's shown up much, so I really haven't thought about it much.

To be truthful, I've never thought of using sidesaddles in my writing, though it's a great idea! This might stem from that fact I only ride western and have never run across a western style sidesaddle (O.o). I wonder how my cultures would feel about side saddles... *leaves to do some thinking*

Personally, I never ride side-saddle....

for obvious reasons

Plus, there are not a lot of horses or cavalry in my stories, and even fewer women to ride them. I'd probably not mention how they ride, because it wouldn't really affect the plot unless they were heading into battle, which generally doesn't happen to my females.
*exits still wondering exactly how one rides side-saddle*

I always wondered how it would be to ride sidesaddle. I've hooked my leg over the pommel of a western saddle and rode like that, but that's about it (it didn't work, just confused the horse).

I certainly respect your stand on sidesaddles, Laura! Not many people think like that, and I'm glad you're open about your stance on modesty and riding.

Personally, I'd feel unsafe in a sidesaddle. Besides, the only horses I've ever ridden were Western trained, and they're controlled by the rider's legs just as much as by the reins . . . Although if I have female characters riding horses, I'll definitely make a note for them to ride sidesaddle (I'm not quite sure how that'd work on a dragon, though)

I don't ride very often, but I wish I could. I wouldn't ride side-saddle though, because I really, really prefer riding bareback. I used to ride my cows when I brought them in and out of milking.

Now on the other hand, I ride in a skirt without any trouble. I always wear skirts, and I always wear really full skirts and I can do anything in a skirt. All this fuss about skirts getting in the way is laughable to me. As long as it's a reasonable length (ankle length skirts do get in the way! ) it doesn't keep me from doing anything, even riding astride.

Fascinating conversation, by the way.

Okay, as to having side-saddle in your writing, go for it. Absolutely nothing wrong with girls in books riding side-saddle, especially if it fits the setting.

And in real life...
Vanya makes a good point. You don't have to wear pants to ride astride, and I think a girl in a full, lovely skirt riding astride a horse is just as feminine and modest as a girl in a sidesaddle.
And about the sidesaddles...I've never tried one. I don't think I've ever even touched one.
But Vanya made me think of something else with her bareback comment. When mankind first tried to ride a horse, what way was the most obvious to do it? Astride, gripping with the legs. It was the only way to stay on. Saddles were only invented to make that position easier and more comfortable.
But, with a sidesaddle, it is the saddle that is holding you on, not your own body contact with the horse. It just isn't the natural way to ride anything.

(Does anyone know anything about the origin of sidesaddles? Why they were invented?)
And I don't have to insist that un-natural is necessarily bad. I likely won't convince everyone with a "natural is good" argument.

I also hope we won't be shut down here, for turning this into a debate.

Well, not to be too argumentative, but actually, I believe it is. The standards for what constitutes modesty for a woman in the Pacific Islands and what constituted modesty for a woman in Victorian England are vastly different. It's not at all the same thing as chastity, which is universal. If you were to take the other side, you'd have to hold that there is a universal standard dictating precisely what is and isn't modest that isn't dependent on personal conscience and cultural norms. My response would be to ask you what that standard is and how you know.

As for the rest of it, two points:

1. Regarding yourself, I believe you should absolutely follow your convictions and those of your parents. The Romans 14 principle applies here IMO, and it would be sin on my part to try to get you to go against your conscience in this matter.

2. Regarding your characters, I think it's a great idea. It'll add flavor and authenticity. I love it when an author puts in some detail like that that flies in the face of the modern zeitgeist but fits the setting perfectly.

Oh, yes...Laura Elizabeth, I will never try to make you go against your conscience. I don't want to be who Matthew 18:6 refers to.

Let me start out by saying I think this is an interesting thought, as I have never considered my women riding side saddle, nor would I probably include a mention of the type of riding, because it is not necessary for my story. I still like the fact that it was brought to my attention though.

I also have no intention of changing your convictions, Laura. I’m big on adhering to your convictions, come what may, because a conviction is what the Lord has instructed you to do, not setting a rule up for others, therefore, I think you cannot nor should argue someone out of a true conviction, which is vastly different than what you believe about theology and so forth.

I will say I am very confused by how riding astride is immodest, though. If you are skirts only, then you can still be perfectly modest. Also, I can’t see how the gender makes a difference, in this particular situation. It’s okay for a guy to ride astride and be in that position, but not a girl. But then, I think you can scripturally argue that a man most certainly can ride astride, and is not immodest. *shrugs * After all, there is reference to the armies of the lord on horseback. They girded their “robes” (glorified dresses) and climbed up behind the horse. So if men could do that, why not fully covered women? You don’t have to answer those; I’m just throwing out my thoughts.

In addition, I think Katie makes a good point, and I do know a lot of other girls who would agree on the skirts side of this, including our very own Duschess Daisy. Skirts are not limiting, in any way. However, I do think they cannot be safe at times, and this is certainly not one of them, I feel.

I have no opposition to side saddle riding, at all. However, I think a serious rider (as in professional riding and war times riding) would not be safe side saddling.

Also, historically most women would side saddle ride, so some people may need to consider that for authenticity. I can’t see where someone would have an issue with it, or how they could justify the issue, although many people could certainly have a preference.

@Elly: Dear Elly, this is not a debate. This is a discussion. The thread will remain open, so long as members are respectful towards one another. Disagreement does not equal debating.

*taps on Airi's shoulder* Did you mean to say that to Aemi, Miss Airianna? (the statement about this not being a debate)

*smack self * Yes. You people get me so confused sometimes. Keep yourselves straight! *grins *

When I saw that, I was . . . 'til I realize it was a who's-who mistake. We need a book of who's-who on HW.

No, I just need to pay better attention.

Haha, I think we all get confused as who's who sometimes...I get Leandra and Milly mixed up when they are on at the same time.

As for sidesaddles: I kind of want to try riding sidesaddle now...I've always wanted to try, but I've never gotten the opportunity.

The only horse I ride is my cousin's, Jasper.

He communicates by the reins and mostly by leg signals. If you jar him with your foot or leg, he goes faster. 'Course, he also communicates sometimes when you pull the reins to make him go into a tight circle, sit back in the saddle, and say, "Whoa, Jasper." He is a very well behaved horse most of the time except when there's grass, hay, or something to nibble on!

Regarding why it might be acceptable for a man to ride astride and not a woman, despite the essentially identical pose:

This is a hard subject to discuss, as each of us belongs to only one sex, and can thus have no firsthand knowledge of how the other sex would mentally react to any particular stimulus. I certainly would not claim to speak for women on this point, so women, feel free to correct me regarding your own psychology. However, it has been my impression from reading and listening to those who have more knowledge of this subject than I have that women do not react to men's bodies in the same way that men do to women's bodies.

Quoth C.S. Lewis:

"Lascivious men think about women's bodies. Lascivious women think about their own."

Generally, in other words, women are exhibitionists rather than voyeurs, and the reverse is true of men. Men wish to see, while women wish to be seen. This is probably why the Biblical admonitions toward modesty are primarily directed(possibly exclusively directed, I'm not sure) towards women.

Disclaimer: I can't claim any authority for this information; I am simply relaying what those I consider to be reliable sources have said. Those with contrary experience are encouraged to correct my opinion if I be in error.

EDIT: Note to moderators/editors: I don't know if "Quote C.S. Lewis" above was a typo or a change by one of you. Probably the former, as none of you marked my post edited. Nevertheless, "Quoth" is correct. Please don't change it.

*chuckles * Well, I understand the male mind a lot better than most men want me to. My Daddy has always felt it part of his duty to teach me how to understand men in general, my brothers, father, and future husband in particular.

While I understand this concern, I also know I know that this is not an issue for the men that I specifically asked, before posting my above post. I wasn't sure, so I went to find out. My teenage brothers and my Daddy were not the only men I asked.

However, that aside, I don't see how a modest young lady could be held responsible for that, anymore than she could be responsible for a man's response to her in general public. She is modest, and not being sensual.

Least that is the discussion we all had on the subject.

Well, don't get me wrong: I don't think it's wrong for a woman to ride astride. I was just explaining the reasoning that might be behind it, and why I don't agree with the 'if a man can do it, a woman can do it' argument. Nor do I think a woman is automatically responsible for a man's response to her if she dresses reasonably modestly.

On the other hand, the definition of modesty for a woman generally revolves around what is and is not likely to provoke the wrong kind of male reaction. All I was really saying was that, by and large, as far as I know, subject to possible correction, modesty and immodesty are much bigger concerns as relates to the way women dress than men, because women have the tendency to show off, and men to look, rather than the other way around, and thus if we did concede that a woman must ride sidesaddle, that would not necessarily imply that the same is true for a man.

I actually hold a lot of the same standards of modesty for men. *shrugs * But that is another subject, and I won't get off topic on that one.

However, I agree. I think the saying "anything a man can do, a woman can do", is a feministic response. Can women? Sure. Should they? No, they should not.

Cultural relativity.... principles of modesty... (even skirts)... all very interesting topics for the interested. They're great reading material, and they really help bring out some of the deeply held convictions all the dedicated posters have. I'd like to ask that the participants stick to talking about side-saddle riding and writing and the relationship between the two.
HW's rules ask that all posters refrain from debating, however friendly they may be able to do so. You're free to express your convictions and explain why you think so, but we ask you stop at that.

Fine with me
Did I break the rule at all?

You did not, Laura.

This is a great topic! I don't ride, at all - *sniff* - so it never occurred to me to study the different styles of riding. It's one of those areas that I should research more to make sure my writing is realistic.

In Faded, I'm not sure we ever see a girl on a horse, so it probably doesn't matter. In Alaidia, however, there is a lot of riding. I'm using a Colonial-era culture in a fantasy world (I guess that makes it a Colonial fantasy?), so I should research what style of riding was standard in that era.

I'd heard that it was possible to ride astride with a full skirt, but obviously have never tried it myself, so I'm glad to hear that confirmed.

As far as difficulty goes, remember that it's all what you're used to. If you've been trained to ride sidesaddle, you and the horse will be used to the method and won't have any difficulty with it.

This was a great thread to read through. I've never thought on some of these points, so this was very intriguing. I respect your convictions, Laura! It's a wonderful thing to have God show you something and for you to stick by it, and I respect you for that.

Speaking from my own experiences, I've never ridden sidesaddle. However I have done a lot of bareback riding and a lot of saddle riding astride. For practical reasons, I doubt I will ever try riding sidesaddle. I was born with dislocated hips, and although they are perfectly fine now, I think riding sidesaddle would probably cause me some problems.

Also, I believe it comes down to two things: personal conviction and reasoning. If one has been convicted to ride solely sidesaddle, by all means, that is wonderful! I admire people with the ability to ride sidesaddle and keep in control of their horse, as it is something I doubt I could ever do. Reasoning, being what reasons one would have to ride astride. Mine for example, is the inability to ride sidesaddle, and also the comfort and control I have of my horse. I also ride in trousers. I admire those who can ride wearing skirts, as I would find that difficult. Is my reason for riding in trousers astride to be immodest or a stumbling block to others? No, of course not! It is for my own practicality.

There is probably a lot of refutable things in what I have just written, however in short, Laura I think it is a wonderful idea to include sidesaddle riding in your novel. It would bring a real authenticity to your writing.

I would be happy to discuss it with you by PM, if you'd like

Sure, Laura. I'd like to if you would.

I know this is kind of a girl thread... but.
Who says people in your books (assuming they are fictoral) will find out how to ride the normal or sidesaddle way? What is stopping them from sitting on it backwards? It all seems logical to sit on it like we do. It also seems logical to wash your hands before eating, but a while ago no one washed their hands. Not even doctors. But one day one rather intelligent doctor decided to wash his hands and spread the news, the death rates went down a ton!
Anyway...started to ramble.
Basically what I am trying to say is not always the thing that looks right or is right is what people do. Same with the way they sit on horses!

This is true, Michael!

Do you mean, moral relativism? How come all the cultures in our world have always ridden the horse facing forward? How would you guide the horse sitting backwards? If you think about it, that's a pretty silly thing to say.

Perhaps a better way to say "riding a horse backwards" is that, in the other world, they may never have even thought of riding it astride, and everyone rides sidesaddle. Maybe over there they have decided that sitting on the horse's head is the best or most normal way... perhaps astride and side-saddle are both foreign.

The essential idea is that, depending on your writing style, our world and your characters' may have nothing in common. They may never have even considered side-saddle or astride, and have some other totally different way that is native to them.

Precisely; there is no right way to ride a horse.
If all the cultures in our world have ridden the horse forwards... why do we have sidesaddle?
That 'twas only an example. I didn't mean for someone to actually write a book where everyone would sit backwards in their saddles and hold their swords upside down! I simply was just speaking of the possibility of other peoples who think differently would do different things.

I didn't read the whole thread, but I have an opinion.

I saw - and sat on - a sidesaddle yesterday. In my opinion, it wasn't overly comfortable, and had it been on a horse I wouldn't have felt safe. I don't have much of problem with saddles in my stories yet, but I always ride astride. I understand what you're saying about them being immodest, especially in a dress, and depending on the style of dress, it certainly makes sense for your characters to ride sidesaddle if the clothing requires it. However, there are ways to make clothing that enables a woman to ride astride and still dress femininely, a long cloak that you would see in processions being one of them. I believe at the end of Prince Caspian, you'll see the kind I'm thinking of.

However, I'm not an expert. I ride rarely, and I ride Western, which is different to riding English or riding sidesaddle. I think mainly of practicality, and thus I would probably either have my characters dress for riding, either in pants or in a more suitable dress. However, don't go aginst your belief for the sake of practicality. If you are conviced that sidesaddles are more appropriate, by all means go for it. This is just my opinion.

Out of curiosity, has anyone seen pictures of the women who used to rope cattle on the family ranches way back when? They ride astride, and are completely covered. I really can't see the immodesty factor when you are talking about medieval dresses. The more and more I think about this, the more I am convinced that riding astride is very possible for a castle times woman.

Every time I think of sidesaddles, I'm reminded of an excerpt from one of my favourite books, "A Little Bush Maid" by Mary Grant Bruce (yes I know ).

Never thought about it. I am really, really, not a fan of horseback riding. I guess it carries over to my stories so that very few of my characters ride horseback.

In an emergency they might ride, but they generally walk for economic and stealth purposes.

There would probably be women who ride astride, and others who ride side-saddle. Quite a few probably would have to ride bareback; and there aren't women in the cavalry.

Dear Laura,

First I commend your parents for taking good care of you! And commend your convictions. Yes, hold onto these because they're crucial.

My stories are historical fantasy. My damsels ride in covered wagons and carriages; ride horseback sidesaddle (usually just as a means of transport, and not for fun); walk, snowshoe, and climb (the last two when necessary).

In the Middle Ages and after, the privileged women who rode, rode sidesaddle. And if they rode behind a man, for example in a hunt, they rode 'pillion', that is, seated sideways behind him. I learned these things from Medieval art. 'Pillion' sounds perilous, but they must have mostly gotten the hang of it; though as in all riding, there was risk no matter how you rode. I'm convinced personally that their riding habits (puny pun!) were as much a matter of 'seemliness', that is, modesty, as it was of the kind of clothes they wore.

At the time I wrote about my heroine traveling part of her journey by horse I only knew about sidesaddle riding, not 'pillion'. When she rode behind 'her hero' she rode astride, for safety I felt. OOPS!

I also made a big snaffoo and had her take turns with her faithful servant riding through the wilds. I forgot that her saddle was a sidesaddle with a horn to secure the leg closest to the horse. Hope it was comfortable for him!

Anyway, my goof! Bring your convictions into your writing, research details to fit with your world and its time period, etc. This was a fun topic with a serious side. Thank you, all!

By the way I haven't ridden much, but I have been thrown!

You did do your research, Lady P. A lot of people do not know all of that info. Thank you for taking the time to share that with us.

A question for people with more riding knowledge than I possess...

Is it possible to ride sidesaddle when riding bareback? What if you used very little tack when you rode - sometimes none at all? I ask because one of my fantasy cultures is going to use horses extensively, but they use minimal or no tack. What tack they do use is metal-free. (I have to research this, but that's probably where I'm going.)

To that end, I need to decide how women ride. When riding sidesaddle behind someone, do you need a special saddle for that? If you're riding sidesaddle, is it easier to ride in front of or behind the other rider, or does it not make a difference?

Thanks for the help!

Having never ridden sidesaddle, I'm really just guessing, but when you ride bareback you grip with your legs. So... Riding side saddle would take away that grip...and you'd fall off the moment the horse moved. At least, I think. I'm not sure...

Consequently, I've never ridden bareback either.

It is possible to ride "sidesaddle" bareback, however technically it isn't really sidesaddle, because all you're doing is simply sitting sideways on the horse. Actually, it's not as hard to stay on as one might think, Bethy. No guarantees you wouldn't fall off at a trot or canter, but you can stay on if you have good balance. (I've tried it, just so you know. )

I've doubled plenty of times bareback on a horse with my siblings, but I've never tried doubling sidesaddle whilst my sibling was astride. I think it would work best to sit in front of the astride rider since that person would be more capable of keeping you on the horse than if you were on the back. On the back, you would find it easier to slide off, and consequently dragging the other person off with you. However if seated in front, the rider astride would better be able to hold you on the horse since their arms would be around you to hold the reins. (assuming there are any)

Hope that was helpful in some way!