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Non-verbal languages
https://archive.holyworlds.org/viewtopic.php?f=244&t=2666		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Constable Jaynin Mimetes [ March 26th, 2011, 6:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Non-verbal languages
When we think of making up a language we usually think of words. A spoken language. I'm reading a book now where they have not one, but three non-spoken languages, and I've barely started the book. Two are sign languages, one is written. The first sign language is done with fingers, the second is a tapping pattern. The written language is a system of tying knots in rope to use on messenger birds. The Mayan, I've been told, are believed to have a written language using ropes.

Especially those of you with animal characters, can they talk without words? Has anyone played with this at all? I'm not talking about telepathy either, that's a spoken language. :D But the thought never crossed my mind before that you could develop sign languages in a fantasy novel.
Author:  Elanhil [ March 28th, 2011, 5:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Non-verbal languages
All my races speak to each other, except the Sapramuh. They can understand human speech, but they communicate in the way that they communicate to each-other, except in a less effective way because humans/elves/dwarves don't understand their language. If they want to communicate negatively, they normally would growl or hiss or something. With each-other, the length of the growl, the pitch, and many other factors would help them communicate different things. But that is spoken. :) They also use nods, paw movement, and the like to communicate. So in a sense it is spoken/sign.
Author:  Whythawye [ May 5th, 2011, 5:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Non-verbal languages
I once tried to decode the body language of squirrels (I had made friends with them and conversed with them in a rudimentary fashion). It is possible, very possible, to have an entire language based off of body language (which is what sign languages are), even with animal's bodies.

The robot language in Triterrus is signed (they are not permitted to speak or read). The 3Literati created the grammar and mindset, word structure, and alphabet in a weekend. Of course, we've had practice with making languages, and I know ASL to a degree, so that helped a ton.

In Ithelak, there are many different sign languages. The Naiads were given sign language as their original tongue, and it brought forth many children languages over the centuries afterwards. The Altruscans (the second province of Tskarnor) developed their own sign language based off of some legendary regional dialects of the naiadic/mannish cultures in northern Tescrii, which they had had some few dealings with. They combined it with some of the secret signing systems of the Raschithian underworld (the third province of Tskarnor) to create their own hidden tongue that they used to converse with each other silently and in secret. Those are two notable examples (though only the Altruscan Silent Speech comes into my books very often) from my world.

I have played around with an idea of a language done entirely through body motion, rather than hand motion. Like freerunning and breakdancing with meaning. There are of course many difficulties that would go into creating such a language (such as my being unable to speak it, haha).
Author:  Calista Bethelle [ May 6th, 2011, 8:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Non-verbal languages
Sir Emeth Mimetes wrote:
I once tried to decode the body language of squirrels (I had made friends with them and conversed with them in a rudimentary fashion).

What's this? Could I have some details here? (In a PM) This sounds fascinating!

Sir Emeth Mimetes wrote:
The robot language in Triterrus is signed (they are not permitted to speak or read). The 3Literati created the grammar and mindset, word structure, and alphabet in a weekend. Of course, we've had practice with making languages, and I know ASL to a degree, so that helped a ton.

Ah, okay. This is interesting, because I didn't know this really before. We're learning sign language too, if you should happen to need help. Although we don't know much yet...
Author:  Sienna North [ May 6th, 2011, 8:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Non-verbal languages
Non-verbal languages? Sounds fascinating... I don't have any in my stories at the moment, but it could be a really good tool for some of the animal-types, if ever they are important enough to merit such special treatment ;) . Actually, there's another type of being, shadows, who would work really well to have a nonverbal language, since it'd be pretty difficult for shadows to have vocal organs.

*puts on pondering cap and goes to ponder nonverbal languages*
Author:  Bethany Faith [ May 6th, 2011, 9:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Non-verbal languages
I can't say I've read or written a non-verbal language (I'd imagine it would be difficult and sometimes lengthy to write), but it certainly sounds like an interesting concept.

A few weeks ago I decided to learn sign language (Uhh...working on that.) because I wanted to be able to create more gestures for signaling anything in a battle. Though, it didn't occur to me to create a sort of sign language for my world. It sounds like something fun to try, especially since I've never tried creating a language. :roll:

On a slightly different note: (@Jay) YOU STUDIED SQUIRREL SPEAK?!! COOL! I wanna know what you learned! *jumps up and down* I wanna know! I wanna know! I wanna know! I wanna know!

Bethany Faith
Author:  Sienna North [ May 6th, 2011, 10:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Non-verbal languages
An example of a mostly-nonverbal language is the sign language between humans and pegasi in Robin McKinley's book, Pegasus. Definitely recommended if you're interested in writing signs.

Being a verbally-communicating human, though, I prefer to keep signs to a minimum :) .
Author:  Ciela Rose [ May 10th, 2011, 9:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Non-verbal languages
I've thought of sign languages, but I thought they were very limited in what they could communicate (Am I wrong or what?).

My feline characters speak in a feline tongue, but it's verbal, not a sign language. However, thanks to this thread, I'm considering making a race of creatures non-verbal. I love this idea the more I think about it.

I'm going to keep an eye on this thread. :D
Author:  Whythawye [ May 11th, 2011, 2:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Non-verbal languages
* chuckles * Sign language is actually more expressive than spoken language, generally. And more intuitive and beautiful, as well as easier to learn.
Author:  Ciela Rose [ May 11th, 2011, 11:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Non-verbal languages
Sir Emeth Mimetes wrote:
* chuckles * Sign language is actually more expressive than spoken language, generally. And more intuitive and beautiful, as well as easier to learn.

How can that be? I know that it's highly possible with my limited knowledge of sign language, but would you care to elaborate in any way, shape, or form?

*eagerly waits*
Author:  Whythawye [ May 11th, 2011, 11:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Non-verbal languages
Because it incorporates acting and graphical elements into it. It is pictorial, not just symbolic.
Author:  Neil of Erk [ May 11th, 2011, 11:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Non-verbal languages
Sir Emeth Mimetes wrote:
I once tried to decode the body language of squirrels (I had made friends with them and conversed with them in a rudimentary fashion).


Jay, if I didn't know you well enough to take you seriously, I'd suspect you were insane, or at least, not very intelligent. :dieshappy:

The best example of a non-verbal language (yes, it qualifies) is the Bee-dancing language. Yes, Bees actually dance in order to communicate.

The second best example is sign-language in all forms. The only difficulty is that very few of these developed like natural languages. Not so with the Bees (of course, God gave them the language) who have been speaking Bee-speak for a long time, without any mouths, or vocal chords, at all.

BTW, if you've never developed any other sort of language before, I would strongly suggest that you DON'T start with a non-verbal language. It's far more complicated, and you need to have a good grasp on the theory of language.

P.S. Jay, could we get a video demonstration of Squirrel Speak? ;)
Author:  Whythawye [ May 12th, 2011, 5:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Non-verbal languages
Neil of Erk wrote:
P.S. Jay, could we get a video demonstration of Squirrel Speak? ;)


* laughs * Get any video of a squirrel talking. :P I don't speak it, I listen to it. :)
Author:  Ciela Rose [ May 12th, 2011, 8:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Non-verbal languages
Sir Emeth Mimetes wrote:
Because it incorporates acting and graphical elements into it. It is pictorial, not just symbolic.

Ahhh, I see!

That gives me a great idea . . . :D
Author:  Suiauthon Mimetes [ May 12th, 2011, 11:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Non-verbal languages
*would like to know great idea* :D
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