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The Supernatural Problems
https://archive.holyworlds.org/viewtopic.php?f=244&t=2643		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Tsahraf ChahsidMimetes [ March 24th, 2011, 3:49 am ]
Post subject:  The Supernatural Problems
Something you have to consider when inventing supernatural things is how to not make them seem easy, or "something from nothing."

I had an idea, what if there were supernatural problems?

Of course there are already some very good examples of this, but it seems that it is only the great writers that give it much thought.

For instance, the silver chair, and the One Ring.

In Iniel, only two tribes of men are able to make images of anything, and only one tribe is able to make realistic images. When others do it they fall sick, and consequently the natural reaction to an image is a creeping fear and anxiety.
Author:  Calista Bethelle [ March 24th, 2011, 4:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Supernatural Problems
That's an idea. Of course, I try to stay away from demons, and other dark supernatural things, so I don't know that I'll use it. But it's a good idea.
Author:  Rachel Newhouse [ March 25th, 2011, 4:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Supernatural Problems
I'm having a little trouble understanding what you mean. Could you clarify? Do you mean troublesome, evil, or otherwise undesirable complications that have supernatural powers? In the case of the One Ring, it was created and possessed supernatural powers, and now it's causing trouble and pain. For the good guys, the One Ring is evil, a nuisance.
Author:  Tsahraf ChahsidMimetes [ March 26th, 2011, 5:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Supernatural Problems
I think I have been misleading: by putting the silver chair and the One Ring next to my idea about images.
Since both the chair and the Ring are demonic problems, it seems that I am talking about demons. Though I am actually talking about any kind of supernatural problem.

The idea I had about the images is an example of a supernatural problem that does not involve demons. In fact, it is not a sickness, or a disorder. It is only when the wrong person tries to make an image that he sickens, and no one does, except on accident. Also, I am using the word "image" for any kind of statue, picture, or "life like" thing.
Author:  Tsahraf ChahsidMimetes [ March 26th, 2011, 6:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Supernatural Problems
Philadelphia wrote:
Do you mean troublesome, evil, or otherwise undesirable complications that have supernatural powers?


It does not need to have power, it can be a mysterious clay plot where seeds rot rather than grow. It can be anything that is a hindrance, explained by the cobha of your Otherworld.

The reason I started this thread was to talk about the whole inconvenient side of cobha, and fictional possibilities. To me it makes the convenient side of it look more "hard earned," and duly paid for.
Author:  Rachel Newhouse [ March 26th, 2011, 9:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Supernatural Problems
* lightbulb goes on * You mean any sort of magic or cobha that is a hindrance, nuisance, or otherwise negative issue. You want to step aside from all the cobha that is good and helpful or desirable (at least when used properly) and investigate problematic cobha. Now am I getting it?

At the moment, one of my current fantasies has a "fading" cobha that causes all objects to turn grayscale as they age. It's undesirable (in a sense) and inevitable, like real aging is, but it's more a facet of life than an annoyance.
Author:  Tsahraf ChahsidMimetes [ March 28th, 2011, 7:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Supernatural Problems
Yes!

And that is an interesting idea. How would it apply to objects? For instance, if you made a new boat out of an old tree, would the boat have color? And then if the boat became old, and you pried off a piece to use as a peg, would the peg have color?
Author:  Airianna Valenshia [ March 28th, 2011, 7:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Supernatural Problems
Wow, that got wonderfully complex, really quick. I've never thought of- *goes off to ponder *
Author:  Rachel Newhouse [ March 28th, 2011, 1:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Supernatural Problems
tsahraf wrote:
Yes!

And that is an interesting idea. How would it apply to objects? For instance, if you made a new boat out of an old tree, would the boat have color? And then if the boat became old, and you pried off a piece to use as a peg, would the peg have color?


Thanks for the thought-provoking questions! Here's the thread I currently have on my premise - viewtopic.php?f=16&t=2596

To answer your questions specifically, "fading" is irreversible. So in the example of wood, the wood itself wouldn't fade when the tree was cut down, because the wood still has usefulness. The wood would fade as it aged, weakened, or got moldy. By the time the wood turned white, it would be structurally unsound and unfit for use elsewhere.
Author:  Whackem [ March 28th, 2011, 1:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Supernatural Problems
I prefer to have ancient artifacts and things that are supernatural. That way they can have any kind of power I want but no one knows their origins. They have them but no one knows them.
Author:  Tsahraf ChahsidMimetes [ March 29th, 2011, 6:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Supernatural Problems
One idea I had was this:

In Iniel there are 38 tribes of men, and none of them can intermarry. In the special cases where they are able to overcome their fundamental incompatibility strange things happen with their children.

There will be a thread in my Otherworld sub-forum about these children, hopefully soon.
Author:  kingjon [ October 18th, 2012, 11:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Supernatural Problems
(Reviving an old thread ...)

Three examples of "magical problems" (or "supernatural problems" to use your term) that I an think of in literature are:
  • The prophecy in about the Witch-King in The Lord of the Rings that "no man may slay him" (and his apparent invulnerability in general)
  • Similarly, Achilles' invulnerability in Greek myth.
  • And the endless supply of enemy troops produced by the Black Cauldron in the Chronicles of Prydain.

And there are many others throughout the corpus of fantasy fiction. :)

What's important, I think, in our writing is that we can have "supernatural problems" or "supernatural solutions," but not both together---in either case both problem and solution have to be well-developed, but if both problem and solution are "supernatural" or "cobhaic" it's hard for the reader to relate, and it can seem, as you say, too easy and a matter of authorial fiat rather than logical development. (Unless the "magical problem" is just one of the complications and dealt with mostly in passing.)

If we set up a "supernatural problem" that has a natural (i.e. non-magical / not "supernatural") solution, we can describe various "magical" and natural attempts to solve it to make clear that it's not "that easy." And if the problem is a "natural" one, we can show that all "natural" solutions that the characters could attempt will fail, leaving the opening for something beyond nature. But if both problem and solution are "magical" or "supernatural," subject to laws that the author invented and usually doesn't reveal in full, this can feel more like a puzzle-style mystery with clues missing.
Author:  Neil of Erk [ October 19th, 2012, 6:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Supernatural Problems
Nobody encounters any supernatural problems in Bonesword, although technically you could say that his Bonesword and the Mark (see my subforum for an explanation) are a problem for his enemies...

However, in the series following Bonesword, the villain Baan uses the Music (again, see my subforum) to fundamentally alter his essence so that he cannot be killed. Technically he is completely mortal, but he alters his essence so that events take place around him that prevent him from being killed. Any number of things, from the subtle (the wind shifts, causing an arrow to drift off target) to the obvious and impossible(though such things rarely happen, once a man took a swing a Baan with a broadsword, and suddenly found himself standing a few feet away from where he was before, causing the man to miss Baan entirely).

This creates an obvious problem of not being able to kill the bad guy. This problem is temporarily solved by banishing Baan into another universe, but eventually he returns, forcing confrontation. Not sure how they end up killing him yet, I'm considering the idea of having something that he does cause his own demise.

It should be noted that cases like Baan's are rare...Baan's skill in the Music is unrivaled and augmented by demonic sorcery. However, the Music can and often does lead to unsolvable situations, including mazes you cannot leave once you have entered, etc. There is sometimes a way to overcome the problem and sometimes not.

Or you can go the Eragon route...

...there is the problem of absolute power (knowing the name of the ancient language), which is not actually solved, rather the villain is simply convinced to kill himself. Other characters also possess the name of absolute power, but do not use it for evil.
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