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 Post subject: Creating a Phonetic System
PostPosted: April 13th, 2011, 5:50 am 
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Hello all ye merry tongue-makers!

I am guessing, from previous experience, that most of you have no idea what a phonetic system is, and yet you are positively sure that it is something confusing, complex, and not for you. But probably kinda cool, once you figure out what it is.

Well, not that you would believe me anyway, but, it isn't. ;)

It is cool, but it isn't confusing or complex, and it is definitely just for you.

See, a phonetic system is what makes it so that you don't have to make a full language for your story, and still get all the benefits of one.

In fact, want me to tell you a secret?

I don't have any full languages. None. Zero. I have dozens of histories of languages (maybe hundreds), a couple dozen phonetic systems, a few structured languages, and no languages that are actually complete in any sense of the word. :shock:

So obviously very few of us actually are able to make a full language. Most of us would, however, love to have some sort of language in our story. So how do we go about this?

We create an illusion. * waves hands dramatically *

Some people call this a naming language, but I don't, because I call something else a naming language, and this is different. Haha. This is much simpler than even a naming language.

See, basically all we want to do is be able to randomly make words that look like they belong to a language. What all is needed for that?

Consistency.

That's it! Honest! Of course, you can do more and make it cooler with extra stuff. Like you can make it into a full fledged art form and create essence maps to help you out and all that, which I do, but you don't have to. It isn't that hard, but it isn't necessary.

All you need to do is make these random words recognizable as belonging to your particular language.

You can do that simply by setting up a simple set of rules about how you make your words in that language. You do it based off of what sounds go into the words and where.

For example. Let's say you have an elvish language.

And you list off all the sounds that are allowed in it. Start with the English sounds, and take some off and add some on (there are more, trust me, but you don't have to add more if you want). Fiddle with it until you have a list that has a nice feel to it that you like.

Then pick which sounds can start a word (or exclude some from starting a word). Do the same for ends of words.

And... you are done. :) That really is all that is needed.

You can continue if you want, by deciding what syllable structures to use, for example.

Like, you can say your language only allows CV, CVC, and V syllables (C standing for consonant, and V standing for vowel). English allows: V, CV, CCV, CCCV, CCCVC, CCCVCC, CCCVCCC, CCVCCC, CVCCC, and more. It is very versatile. Some languages only allow CV. It is up to you. This right here is very simple to implement, and will make your 'language' a ton more believable and recognizable.

You can also make common sequences for specific kinds of words. Like you can make all city names end in 'ia' or all mountains start with 'kru.'

And on and on. You can have tons of fun with this, and never have to create a bit of grammar or vocabulary.


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 Post subject: Re: Creating a Phonetic System
PostPosted: April 13th, 2011, 12:48 pm 
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Haha, this is pretty neat Jay! It sounds simple enough to do and not too complicated at all!

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 Post subject: Re: Creating a Phonetic System
PostPosted: April 13th, 2011, 12:58 pm 
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Oh good! If you need help, let me know. I love doing these. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Creating a Phonetic System
PostPosted: April 13th, 2011, 1:09 pm 
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I guess you could use this for like an Alien language! I'd love to try it sometime when I'm writing a Sci Fi story. :D Thanks. :D

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Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.

From the ashes a fire shall be woken,
A light from the shadows shall spring;
Renewed shall be blade that was broken,
The crownless again shall be king

J. R. R. Tolkien


My favourite quote: "God will give His kindness for you to use when your own runs out."

Pippin's Waggy Tales

Autumn Leaves


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 Post subject: Re: Creating a Phonetic System
PostPosted: April 14th, 2011, 10:11 am 
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Thank you, Jay. :D

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Floyd was frozen where he stood. He struggled to breathe, but the air smelled of blood and death and guilt. He tried to formulate a name, to ask, but language was meaningless, and words would not come. He tried to scream but the sound got stuck in his heart, shattered into a million pieces, and scattered to the wind.

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 Post subject: Re: Creating a Phonetic System
PostPosted: April 14th, 2011, 10:10 pm 
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Hmm, I guess this means I should sit down, take my randomly made up words for the lorvald language, and try this. I've never had the interest in creating anything like a real language, but this does sound like something I could do if I just bother to take the time. Thanks for the explanation!

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 Post subject: Re: Creating a Phonetic System
PostPosted: April 15th, 2011, 1:33 am 
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Yes, if you already have a few words, this is even easier. :)

I might write a thread on writing systems next... since that is also something that is super enjoyable, and helps create an illusion of a full language. I almost enjoy making writing systems more than making phonetic systems. Haha.

Can't wait to see what you come up with!


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 Post subject: Re: Creating a Phonetic System
PostPosted: October 5th, 2011, 5:06 pm 
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I was rather distraught this afternoon because I was trapped in the car trying to invent names for a kingdom full of aliens and remembered you'd written something about a really simple naming language but couldn't remember a word of it... this does sound simple now that I have a culture to try it out on. :D

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Floyd was frozen where he stood. He struggled to breathe, but the air smelled of blood and death and guilt. He tried to formulate a name, to ask, but language was meaningless, and words would not come. He tried to scream but the sound got stuck in his heart, shattered into a million pieces, and scattered to the wind.

In a world without superheroes, who will stand against the forces of evil?


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 Post subject: Re: Creating a Phonetic System
PostPosted: October 6th, 2011, 12:38 am 
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* chuckles * That's why it's good to do this kind of thing in advance, so you're familiar with the system. That way when you're stuck in a car, you can create one off the top of your head with ease. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Creating a Phonetic System
PostPosted: November 22nd, 2011, 3:43 pm 
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These are some very efficient tips! I am creating a language right now and this will be very helpful and useful! :D

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 Post subject: Re: Creating a Phonetic System
PostPosted: December 13th, 2011, 9:32 am 
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Sir Emeth Mimetes wrote:
Start with the English sounds, and take some off and add some on (there are more, trust me, but you don't have to add more if you want).

Well more than two-hundred-thirty-one possible consonants. I am still working on the list, and it keeps growing...

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 Post subject: Re: Creating a Phonetic System
PostPosted: December 13th, 2011, 10:16 am 
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Tsahraf wrote:
Sir Emeth Mimetes wrote:
Start with the English sounds, and take some off and add some on (there are more, trust me, but you don't have to add more if you want).

Well more than two-hundred-thirty-one possible consonants. I am still working on the list, and it keeps growing...


How do you represent those non-English sounds so our English readers can understand them?

And thanks, Jay, for the article. It's good to know that the answer for my "I think this word sounds cool" dilemma is fairly straightforward!

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 Post subject: Re: Creating a Phonetic System
PostPosted: December 15th, 2011, 10:12 am 
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~Evenstar~ wrote:
How do you represent those non-English sounds so our English readers can understand them?

I do not believe this is possible since you would have to teach the reader how to pronounce the sounds. It is so hard even to represent English sounds so that people are more likely to pronounce them the way you are thinking.

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::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::Tsahraf:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Servant of God, Brother of Christ, and Sealed by the Holy Ghost.

Tsahraf is Hebrew, meaning to refine, cast, melt, purge away, try.

Chahsid Mimetes means Follower of the Holy One, or saint.

Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.
I Corinthians 11:1

May Sir Emeth Mimetes find you doing this.
Thank you, in Gods name.


Jorgan the Sphere on Amazon.

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 Post subject: Re: Creating a Phonetic System
PostPosted: March 14th, 2012, 4:12 pm 
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That's what I'm struggling with...what constitutes an "English sound"?

A lot of place names in my fantasy world start with the letter V (Vadra, Vosmerre, Vadrad, Vadras...) But then I also have Trythica and Furim...so...I guess I'm totally confused because I don't know how to make a list even just with these few names' sounds populating it (how would I spell a V sound when it's so different for each name, like from Vadra to Vizin?).


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 Post subject: Re: Creating a Phonetic System
PostPosted: March 15th, 2012, 4:57 am 
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An English sound would be one used in English, such as v or a or g.
A non English sound would be one not used in English, such as in these links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lateral_click
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labiodental_flap
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palatal_ejective

Does that help?
Then there is d5, a sound that I found that is not even on the IPA.

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::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::Tsahraf:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Servant of God, Brother of Christ, and Sealed by the Holy Ghost.

Tsahraf is Hebrew, meaning to refine, cast, melt, purge away, try.

Chahsid Mimetes means Follower of the Holy One, or saint.

Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.
I Corinthians 11:1

May Sir Emeth Mimetes find you doing this.
Thank you, in Gods name.


Jorgan the Sphere on Amazon.

A Servant of The Author
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 Post subject: Re: Creating a Phonetic System
PostPosted: March 15th, 2012, 8:56 am 
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I think that affirms what I was wondering if I knew, so yes. Thank you! :D


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 Post subject: Re: Creating a Phonetic System
PostPosted: March 15th, 2012, 9:19 am 
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Tsahraf ChahsidMimetes wrote:
It is so hard even to represent English sounds so that people are more likely to pronounce them the way you are thinking.


For example: do you pronounce your user name laicanis or laikeinis? (or perhaps laicahnis)

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::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::Tsahraf:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Servant of God, Brother of Christ, and Sealed by the Holy Ghost.

Tsahraf is Hebrew, meaning to refine, cast, melt, purge away, try.

Chahsid Mimetes means Follower of the Holy One, or saint.

Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.
I Corinthians 11:1

May Sir Emeth Mimetes find you doing this.
Thank you, in Gods name.


Jorgan the Sphere on Amazon.

A Servant of The Author
Pinterest Pictures


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 Post subject: Re: Creating a Phonetic System
PostPosted: March 15th, 2012, 9:48 am 
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Tsahraf ChahsidMimetes wrote:
Tsahraf ChahsidMimetes wrote:
It is so hard even to represent English sounds so that people are more likely to pronounce them the way you are thinking.


For example: do you pronounce your user name laicanis or laikeinis? (or perhaps laicahnis)


:rofl: I'm not sure! lol how are you pronouncing those examples of my name??? :rofl: I pronounce it sorta like lick, khan (like Genghis' last name) iss (like in Chris or Charissa. Does that make sense? :rofl:


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 Post subject: Re: Creating a Phonetic System
PostPosted: March 19th, 2012, 5:46 am 
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So it is lih, not lai! So it would be likahnis? We should probably post this on the How do you Pronounce your Username thread.

Other languages than English have better phonetic systems. Yet English is the top, or one of the top most spoken languages. I wonder if I will be able to reflect that in my world.

Now I believe English is better off than Mandarin Chinese (third most spoken language *sigh*) which does not, or did not, have a phonetic system at all.

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::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::Tsahraf:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Servant of God, Brother of Christ, and Sealed by the Holy Ghost.

Tsahraf is Hebrew, meaning to refine, cast, melt, purge away, try.

Chahsid Mimetes means Follower of the Holy One, or saint.

Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.
I Corinthians 11:1

May Sir Emeth Mimetes find you doing this.
Thank you, in Gods name.


Jorgan the Sphere on Amazon.

A Servant of The Author
Pinterest Pictures


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 Post subject: Re: Creating a Phonetic System
PostPosted: March 19th, 2012, 10:40 am 
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Tsahraf ChahsidMimetes wrote:
So it is lih, not lai! So it would be likahnis? We should probably post this on the How do you Pronounce your Username thread.


Yeah, I should, I forgot to revisit that thread I'm pretty sure, once I changed my name... *goes to do it*


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