I've been trying to develop Murel's centaurs and I've heard a lot about how centaur anatomy doesn't work, but nothing about exactly what's wrong.

Here's where you fill me in.

* takes cue *

Well to start off (this is just an overview post), look at digestive systems. Each creature has a digestive system tailored specifically for the way they exert energy and the way they eat (God is awesome that way). Horses and humans are almost polar opposites on this in many ways. Their digestive systems are almost incompatible (as in, a horse can't function with a human system, and a human can't function with a horse system). And yet you need both functioning in a centaur.

Then turn your attention to respiratory and cardiovascular systems. Again, a horse's and a human's bodies are incredibly different in how they exert energy, without even looking at the bare difference in mass. Horses actually have to have five hearts in order to keep their blood going properly (they have a mechanical heart pump in each hoof). Humans are very different (which is why we ride horses, haha). You also need to get enough air in to oxygenate all that blood... even more than a horse does. And yet, what do you do to get all that air in?

And again, all the systems of both humans and horses need to be present and functioning in a centaur. And they need to be integrated, not just parallel. Just the fact that you don't have a horse's head to get the horse's food to the horse's belly is almost insurmountable.

So if you want a realistic centaur... you gotta do some pretty crazy stuff to get it working.

Haha! So I can tell all my girls that we now have a thread on this subject! It was discussed in chat one day, but we never had a thread I could point them to.

*dodges out *

I don't know if this helps...but in The Silver Chair there is a conversation on this towards the end. Where he talks about Centaurs eating lots of breakfast for their human part, and then also going and eating an enormous breakfast of oats and grass and such for their horse part.

Just a thought. Maybe you could just alter human and horse anatomy altogether... Make something that suits both? IDK... it seems like most people wouldn't even thinking about that in a story. I know I never considered it.

2 things:
#1: People aren't going to worry about this too much in a story.
#2: It would be really, really cool and really, really outstanding if you came up with proper centaur anatomy anyways.
My message in a nutshell: Don't sweat too much over this, but keep at it!

Emeth already covered what comes to the top of my mind (and more). I'd say that if you find ways to incorporate everything Emeth just talked about you would have succeeded at #2. *keeps eye on thread*

Really interesting.

In Murel, centaurs are a line of creatures that developed from demonically altered humans. Because centaurs weren't God's "best" I want to partially fix the centaurs anatomy problems, but not completely.
So perhaps the centaurs have a weak heart? Perhaps they have to eat three times as much as humans? I'm not sure yet.


That's what I'll probably have to do.


My first main reason for asking this is because of what I posted above: I want to give them some physical problems.
My second main reason is because I'm a perfectionist.

Aye. You don't have to make it realistic. Most people just ignore it altogether. Some people only half fix the problems (like C.S Lewis: he never talked about how in the world a human is supposed to... graze).

But if you're like me... yeah.

I did the same thing, Suiauthon, in Ithylak. They are demonic (aka ducahoi and zheighor), and thus aren't exactly natural anyway. So I don't bother my head about how they work super well, except for the normal ducahoi weaknesses.

In Rohl though... we have coligas. Which are winged and horned centaurs (hyper-extreme-epic peoples). And they were designed by God, and thus must work perfectly. So no fudging there.

So in their case I designed unique systems for all of the above problems, crafted specifically for them.

*is getting really excited about this*
I should study human and horse anatomy soon...

@Jay You wouldn't happen to have a drawing/diagram of the anatomy of a coliga for me to study, would you?

@Mark: I have a big book on horses up in the Nguyen's attic - I'll have to get it down for you to peruse

eru

Um... in my head. Mostly everything about Rohl is in my head.

Thanks, Andrew.


Yeah, I figured that would be the case. Thanks for the ideas to get me started though.

One thing is that coligas have six hearts, one digestive system, and two respiratory systems.

They have a mantle of hyper-muscle where the front juncture of the man-part's waist meets the horse-part's chest. This helps support the upper body and powers the wings (which do not enable them to stay aloft, but merely to leap powerfully and maneuver on the ground to help manage all that top-heaviness). They have a powerful chest with capacious lungs, a large heart in the normal person-place, and more open nostrils and mouth for greater air intake (this actually makes them sound different and gives them a greater range of vowel vocalization, which is a natural consequence of their anatomy and which I worked into their language). This upper system provides blood and oxygen to the man-body, the mantle, and the wings.

In the horse part, they have a horse's cardiovascular system, but their lungs are vented through an opening like a whale's blowhole at the base of the man-part's back, between the wings. It is what provides the oxygen to the horse-body. Of course, this also means this is a natural weak spot for the coligas. They don't like swimming, especially in deep water, because the likelihood of them drowning is great (their backs would be submerged while swimming, putting this second breathing hole under water the whole time). They also avoid putting things too high on their horse-backs, because that could cover it (not likely with how sheltered it is between the wings, but possible), etc. They even strap an iron mesh helmet thing on with a double belt around their waist and under the horse-body to cover and protect that part in battle.

As far as digestion goes, they do not eat grass and such like, but their bodies are extremely efficient at garnering every bit of nutrition and energy from the food they take in. They have a long and capacious digestive tract, and they use it regularly and fully. Their feasts are legendary. They eat a lot of high-energy foods, and they have a low metabolism. They are capable of great feats of strength and tremendous speed, but they are not made for long and strenuous exertions. They can do long, slow marches, but never a fast gallop over a mountain. They like lots of rests and siestas (which can make them lame if they let the blood pool in their legs -- the hearts in their hooves work by the action of their legs).

Anyway, I deduced all that from the basic problems with the anatomy presented by their outside appearance. It's the most unique beast I've ever concocted (I have never heard of anything close to a centaur with a blowhole, or with wings and horns for that matter). And it is very much mine, so no stealing.

*already read the blog post on this* Jay, you're amazing

eru

*echoes Andrew*

Hm... I already have some ideas to start mulling over.

I've actually been thinking about this since a PM with Airianna.

What I figured could be done was set the human portion of the body slightly more inward to enable an increase in balance, and increase the thickness of the human spine only slightly. Include another shoulder/breastbone-like structure in front of where the pelvic bone should be for extra support. Make the leg bones slightly larger to support the extra body part/body.

As far as respiratory/digestive systems go. I figured what could be done was change the human anatomy so that the windpipe was larger around, and lungs taking up a larger portion of the torso, with multiple bronchii, to allow for more air flow and lung capacity. The heart would be slightly larger. Around the human and horse organs would be small, sack-like structures in the lining that would contain and process oxygen more slowly, so if needed, there would be a greater supply. Still, seeing that the horse part of the body would likely be neglected, have two extra nostril's in the front of the horse body/breast area, which would transport oxygen to a separate set of horse lungs.
The human part of the body would have an initial stomach, only used to process a small amount of nutrients, and what the horse stomach could not. However, most of the food would travel to the horse stomach and be digested within those systems. Otherwise, I would say there to be littler other change, excepting in the sizes or placement of certain organs to compensate for the others.

As far as diet, I would have them consume both food that a human and a horse could digest, though strictly vegetarian to avoid other complications. Perhaps, in terms of grass, they would be forced to cultivate and eat only the taller types.

I may be thinking too simply and create a race that is doomed to die in the first five minutes after birth though, so check me on that.

*laughs * I'm so glad you posted in here!!!

Haha, it's only a few months late.

Better late than never.