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 Post subject: A form of Magic never before seen, but entirely Christian
PostPosted: October 11th, 2010, 5:20 pm 
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Dear Fellows,

College has a way of situating a chap in an academic environment. As such, I have been placed within a flaming trove of literary aurora! Imagine how a child feels when suddenly thrown into a room full of candy, and you can imagine my delight. I have been lucky enough to find students who share my joy of storytelling. Besides swapping epic tales, we also criticize prosetic literature and its genres. It's great fun to critically lay out on the table the trends and features which best describe the world of make-believe. This gives me some incentive to reconsider the world I myself have created: Adamis Vale. It is a feature - nay, the feature - of a fantasy novel that its world have some basic, fundamental rules which the real world doesn't. These rules govern the use and nature of magic, for instance. Land law, some call it.

My world has such rules. One rule is the distinction between Beast and Being. I shan't expound on that topic here, but you can read some of my earlier posts if you are interested. A second rule, and the one I wish to write on today, is coming into development. It is the rule of "What you believe, that you become."

You really ought to read some of my earlier posts about Beasts and Beings to understand this post better. But the long and short of it is that each race of Being in my novel - whether dwarf, vulgrak, shyro, elf, etc - each represents a worldview. The dwarves are either atheists, deists, magicians, or agnostics, depending which color beard they are (brown, black, red, silver). The Vulgrak are humanists. The Shyro are philosophers. It goes on. The point is, and the characters don't realize this until the middle of the book, that once everyone was human but embraced a certain worldview, and with time, began to look more like their worldview - "What you believe, that you become."

One of the lead characters makes a horrible decision based upon his worldview. As a result, he turns into a hideous shaggy beast. Besides his animalistic appearance, he is no different otherwise. He immediately regrets his decision and the rest of the series follows him trying to regain his former body. But he comes to realize that once you become something, you can't change back. His worldview made him a monster. This is a metaphor of how modern worldviews very much make monsters from people. The book ends when he encounters Eliam (my metaphoric rendition of Jesus) and is returned to his former self. But he is told that he had always been a monster. Only now that he has been renewed by Eliam is he a new creature.

Just so people in my book are not metamorphosing each day of the week every time they get a new thought, one only becomes a "being other than human" when one reaches that irreversible level of radical embrace and then does something totally opposite to the Christian worldview as a consequence - you can't just believe something and not act upon it, neither can you do something remotely Christian, like giving to the poor, in the name of humanism then expect to transform into something "other-human." It has to be both a lie and a harm. Not one or the other. This way, there are many humans in my book that are completely non-Christian, even anti-Christian, and remain humans; though they be more susceptible to other worldviews. In fact, a transformation (in my book, called "A Becoming") is a very rare occurrence. There have been only a few since the time of Great Becomings after the First Lie (my rendition of the Fall of Man).

This philosophy applies to us as Christians. It is our commission to be ever more like God our Savior. Each day, each prayer, is a time of Becoming to the Christian soul. Just as God is loving, we become loving. Just as God is wise, we become wise. He shapes us and molds us while we merely look on and await His everyday workings change our hearts, minds, bodies, and souls. My protagonist (not the one who becomes a creature) is in search of this very thing. How does he transform? He becomes ever more human, made in the image of God.

This idea of "What you believe, that you become" came to me while discussing The Voyage of the Dawn Treader by C.S. Lewis with my group of college colleagues. The story of Eustace Scrubb getting lost and wandering into the dragon's cave, then becoming one himself, is a metaphoric way of telling us "He was always a dragon. The only difference is now it's obvious." When Aslan turns him back by "baptizing" him, one could say it was the first time he had ever truly been human.

Desiderio Domini,
Blake Adams

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 Post subject: Re: A form of Magic never before seen, but entirely Christia
PostPosted: October 11th, 2010, 6:23 pm 
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:shock: Wow. That... is really cool. I like it. So your story is an allegory?

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 Post subject: Re: A form of Magic never before seen, but entirely Christia
PostPosted: October 11th, 2010, 6:56 pm 
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Wow! That sounds really, really cool. There's definitely a lot of potential with that storyline. Sounds great!

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 Post subject: Re: A form of Magic never before seen, but entirely Christia
PostPosted: October 11th, 2010, 8:37 pm 
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Wow, I don't even want to see how you word that transformation. ;)

I like the concept, it's very unique and interesting.

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 Post subject: Re: A form of Magic never before seen, but entirely Christia
PostPosted: October 11th, 2010, 11:47 pm 
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That is pretty interesting :D I'd like to see how it all plays out in your book :)


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 Post subject: Re: A form of Magic never before seen, but entirely Christia
PostPosted: October 12th, 2010, 10:58 am 
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That's a great idea!

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Heroes and Demons series:
Lost Son: 3,782 words http://www.holyworlds.org/forum/viewtop ... 117&t=1844
Red Son: 1,726 words http://www.holyworlds.org/forum/viewtop ... 117&t=3008
Prodigal Son: Developing Stage
Grateful Son: Developing Stage
The Setting Sons: Developing Stage
All titles are tentative
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Other books:

Tobias the Swift: Developing Stage

Wings from above: Developing Stage

Yeah, most of my books are in the development stage, but I have a lot of ideas! :P


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 Post subject: Re: A form of Magic never before seen, but entirely Christia
PostPosted: October 12th, 2010, 1:26 pm 
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Wow, that is an awesome idea, Blake. Definitely something I would want to read about. :)

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 Post subject: Re: A form of Magic never before seen, but entirely Christia
PostPosted: October 13th, 2010, 8:51 pm 
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Wow. That is a REALLY, REALLY interesting idea, and I'd definitely read a book about that. One thing I'd like to ask though. What do humans represent?

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And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for you: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather boast in my weaknesses, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. ~ 2 Corinthians 12:9

Nessa- She's given up the veil, the vows she'd sworn, abandoned every effort to conform. Without a word to anyone she's gone her way alone, a dove escaping back into the storm.

Nolan- And though I don't understand why this happened, I know that I will when I look back someday, and see how you've brought beauty from ashes, and made me as gold purified through the flames.

Azriel- And who do you think you are, running round leaving scars, collecting your jar of hearts, and tearing love apart? You're gonna catch a cold from the ice inside your soul, so don't come back to me. Don't come back at all...


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 Post subject: Re: A form of Magic never before seen, but entirely Christia
PostPosted: October 13th, 2010, 9:19 pm 
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Marcher Lord,

Humans represent the original default. Humans are made in the image of God. Until they radically embrace another ideal, they remain in the same image.

People in the real world usually don't embrace an ideal in the first place: they just try to be good people. By following God-given conscience to determine right and wrong (for doesn't the human being instinctively know the difference?), the average person is merely following its moral nature. In this way, one could say the human is not violating the image in which it was created. It is only when he violates his conscience does a human become something truly animal. He does this by embracing an ideal that isn't God, which makes good people do bad things.

So...you may ask...are dwarf babies human, since they haven't made up their minds yet? Do they resort to the human default when born, then become dwarves when they've made up their minds? Nope. The child has a new default in this case: dwarfism. So you won't see a human born from a dwarf or a Vulgrak or an elf.

However, by the same token, you may see these races interbreed. When that happens, you get what you'd expect: half-dwarf, half-human, or half-Vulgrak, half-human, and so on. This shows how ideals can mingle, just as they do in the real world.

Desiderio Domini,
Pavalini

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 Post subject: Re: A form of Magic never before seen, but entirely Christia
PostPosted: October 13th, 2010, 9:48 pm 
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Pavalini wrote:
This is a metaphor of how modern worldviews very much make monsters from people. The book ends when he encounters Eliam (my metaphoric rendition of Jesus) and is returned to his former self. But he is told that he had always been a monster. Only now that he has been renewed by Eliam is he a new creature.


Ok. That makes a little more sense, but I guess I should re-word my question. Are humans monsters as well? Like by the time of this story, are there any humans left or is everyone born a monster at this point?

Would a human need to be redeemed?

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And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for you: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather boast in my weaknesses, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. ~ 2 Corinthians 12:9

Nessa- She's given up the veil, the vows she'd sworn, abandoned every effort to conform. Without a word to anyone she's gone her way alone, a dove escaping back into the storm.

Nolan- And though I don't understand why this happened, I know that I will when I look back someday, and see how you've brought beauty from ashes, and made me as gold purified through the flames.

Azriel- And who do you think you are, running round leaving scars, collecting your jar of hearts, and tearing love apart? You're gonna catch a cold from the ice inside your soul, so don't come back to me. Don't come back at all...


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 Post subject: Re: A form of Magic never before seen, but entirely Christia
PostPosted: October 16th, 2010, 11:17 am 
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Willow Wenial wrote:
Ok. That makes a little more sense, but I guess I should re-word my question. Are humans monsters as well? Like by the time of this story, are there any humans left or is everyone born a monster at this point?

Would a human need to be redeemed?


Ah, I see! At this point, I would ask you to read one of my previous posts entitled: Beings and Beasts. Basically, Beings have souls and Beasts do not. Beasts are all alike: Griffins, dragons, common animals, and whatnot. Beasts do not have the powers of speech, critical reasoning, poetics, and so on. Beings on the other hand have souls. This enables them to speak, think critically, write poetry, and so on. The soul is basically God's image in the Being: His fingerprint on their hearts. The Beings include dwarves, humans, Vulgrak, Hak'tali (though this is greatly debated among the intellectuals of my world), elves, and so on. Each race of Being merely looks like its worldview: the short, stubborn dwarves represent atheism and their self-glorifying, greedy, and ultimately pointless philosophy. The wild tribal Vulgrak represents the Noble Savage, who determines right and wrong by the base philosophy of "Reward or Punishment." Each race has its own worldview. Each race looks like its worldview.

I see your point. Theologically speaking, we are all monsters from birth. However, that's only from God's perspective. For the sake of allegory, I'm forced to take the human perspective: good people aren't monsters, however pagan they may be. In my book, the human state is the most susceptible to transformation: dwarves don't become Vulgrak, or Hak'tali, elves. Only humans change because they embody the default of God's Image. As long as humans are being good, they are responding to their instinctive sense of morality. When they embrace a lie that goes against their original design, then their souls and bodies embody that ideal and take new form - they become cursed and other-human.

So yes, there are still humans in my world. These are most susceptible to "A Becoming." So it is best to tell them about God/Eliam now, before a lie invades and turns their entire makeup backwards.

Desiderio Domini,
Pavalini

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 Post subject: Re: A form of Magic never before seen, but entirely Christia
PostPosted: October 16th, 2010, 3:52 pm 
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After they mature, can beings other than humans turn back into humans? If I understand right, humans can change into anything else and anything else can turn human, but nothing else.

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"Many who live deserve death, and some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Do not be so eager to deal out death and judgment, for even the Wise cannot see all ends."
-Gandalf

"When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth"
-Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, (in Sherlock Holmes)
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Current projects:
Heroes and Demons series:
Lost Son: 3,782 words http://www.holyworlds.org/forum/viewtop ... 117&t=1844
Red Son: 1,726 words http://www.holyworlds.org/forum/viewtop ... 117&t=3008
Prodigal Son: Developing Stage
Grateful Son: Developing Stage
The Setting Sons: Developing Stage
All titles are tentative
_______________
Other books:

Tobias the Swift: Developing Stage

Wings from above: Developing Stage

Yeah, most of my books are in the development stage, but I have a lot of ideas! :P


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 Post subject: Re: A form of Magic never before seen, but entirely Christia
PostPosted: October 18th, 2010, 5:05 pm 
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Ok! Thanks for clearing that up, Pavalini.:D

I do have one more question though. It's kind of like Griffin's. Why do the sins of the parents affect the children? As in, why can't a dwarf child accept (whoever Christ is) and become human etc...

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And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for you: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather boast in my weaknesses, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. ~ 2 Corinthians 12:9

Nessa- She's given up the veil, the vows she'd sworn, abandoned every effort to conform. Without a word to anyone she's gone her way alone, a dove escaping back into the storm.

Nolan- And though I don't understand why this happened, I know that I will when I look back someday, and see how you've brought beauty from ashes, and made me as gold purified through the flames.

Azriel- And who do you think you are, running round leaving scars, collecting your jar of hearts, and tearing love apart? You're gonna catch a cold from the ice inside your soul, so don't come back to me. Don't come back at all...


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 Post subject: Re: A form of Magic never before seen, but entirely Christia
PostPosted: October 18th, 2010, 8:34 pm 
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I think I might be able to answer your question Willow. It's like Adam. Through Adam, everyone has sin from birth. Am I correct Pavalini?

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Griffin
"Many who live deserve death, and some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Do not be so eager to deal out death and judgment, for even the Wise cannot see all ends."
-Gandalf

"When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth"
-Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, (in Sherlock Holmes)
________________________

Current projects:
Heroes and Demons series:
Lost Son: 3,782 words http://www.holyworlds.org/forum/viewtop ... 117&t=1844
Red Son: 1,726 words http://www.holyworlds.org/forum/viewtop ... 117&t=3008
Prodigal Son: Developing Stage
Grateful Son: Developing Stage
The Setting Sons: Developing Stage
All titles are tentative
_______________
Other books:

Tobias the Swift: Developing Stage

Wings from above: Developing Stage

Yeah, most of my books are in the development stage, but I have a lot of ideas! :P


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 Post subject: Re: A form of Magic never before seen, but entirely Christia
PostPosted: October 19th, 2010, 9:46 am 
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Just be very careful with this: it strongly resembles the daemon concept from His Dark Materials.

One question that this concept raises: is it appropriate for us to see our fellow humans as they appear to God?

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I am Ebed Eleutheros, redeemed from slavery in sin to the bond-service of my Master, Jesus Christ.

Redemption is to be purchased, to have a price paid. So I was redeemed from my master sin, and from justice, which demanded my death. For He paid the price of sin by becoming sin, and met the demands of justice by dying for us.

For all men have a master. But a man cannot have two masters. For he will love one and hate the other. You cannot serve God and sin. So I die to the old, as He died, and I am resurrected to the new, as He was resurrected.

Note: Ebed is Hebrew for bondsman, Eleutheros is Greek for unrestrained (not a slave).


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 Post subject: Re: A form of Magic never before seen, but entirely Christia
PostPosted: October 25th, 2010, 11:20 am 
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Inesdar wrote:
Hmmm Neil, I thought the Daemons in 'His Dark Materials' were sort of 'bonded animals'


Yes, but the concept of the "daemon" that was borrowed from, and mostly retained, was that a daemon is a animal which metaphorically reflects the person they bond to. In His Dark Materials the animals represent the spirit of the character they bond too.

I'm not condemning Pavalini's idea but I am saying that it could have some drawbacks.

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I am Ebed Eleutheros, redeemed from slavery in sin to the bond-service of my Master, Jesus Christ.

Redemption is to be purchased, to have a price paid. So I was redeemed from my master sin, and from justice, which demanded my death. For He paid the price of sin by becoming sin, and met the demands of justice by dying for us.

For all men have a master. But a man cannot have two masters. For he will love one and hate the other. You cannot serve God and sin. So I die to the old, as He died, and I am resurrected to the new, as He was resurrected.

Note: Ebed is Hebrew for bondsman, Eleutheros is Greek for unrestrained (not a slave).


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 Post subject: Re: A form of Magic never before seen, but entirely Christia
PostPosted: November 16th, 2010, 6:54 pm 
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Griffin wrote:
After they mature, can beings other than humans turn back into humans? If I understand right, humans can change into anything else and anything else can turn human, but nothing else.


I knew an atheist. He believed all truth could be rationally perceived, and if truth could not be rationally explained, it was not true. He worshiped reason. This atheist became a Christian, but this emphasis on reason remained intact. He now felt God could be rationally perceived and explained. He had successfully transmitted a feature from his unbelief to his new-found faith.

Christians in my made-up world are called Flames of Eliam. The reason is because every Being who has been touched by Eliam receives a literal flame which blazes in his eyes and hands when he's "in the Spirit." If you have the flame, you are a Christian: touched, as it were, by the Holy Ghost.

The Black Bearded Dwarves represent atheists in my book. They worship reason. However, some dwarves become "Christians" and receive the Flame of Eliam. Yet they remain dwarves. They also continue to make reason imperative in their worship of God. It seems what grain of truth that existed in their false belief remained intact when they became Christians. Such as it is with people today who were atheists and became Christians: they still, in a sense, look and think like atheists. It's simply in their mannerisms that the residue of their former worldview lingers. And this is not at all displeasing to the Almighty.

So, to answer your question: the truth is how we are raised is what molds us into who we are. These baby dwarves were born as dwarves. It is who they are. They cannot change from it. However, that does not prevent them from becoming "Christians."

Humans can change into anything. They are not, as of yet, of decidedly anti-Christian philosophy. Remember, for A Becoming to take place, the human must throw himself into the most extreme and radical false ideology. If he merely doesn't care, or nit-picks at what he believes, but chooses rather to "not care what I believe - just continue living," it is unlikely a Becoming will take place.

Other-Human Beings cannot change. Once a dwarf, always a dwarf. Once an elf, always an elf. etc. We need to understand that once we believe a lie, we are permanently and irreversibly scarred (in this life and body, that is). There are occasions in my world where, say, a dwarf is cursed. Curses are serious things which can greatly alter the appearance. A curse comes from the touch of Eliam, just as the Flame (or Blessing) does. The character who I mentioned in my post that made a horrible decision and was turned into a shaggy, beast-like creature, was in fact cursed - a very extreme version of a Becoming.

Desiderio Domini,
Pavalini

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 Post subject: Re: A form of Magic never before seen, but entirely Christia
PostPosted: November 16th, 2010, 6:57 pm 
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Griffin wrote:
I think I might be able to answer your question Willow. It's like Adam. Through Adam, everyone has sin from birth. Am I correct Pavalini?


You are correct, Griffin. The Bible states that children inherit the nature of their fathers (and first-father, Adam). If daddy was a dwarf, it will definitely show up in you.

Desiderio Domini,
Pavalini

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 Post subject: Re: A form of Magic never before seen, but entirely Christia
PostPosted: November 16th, 2010, 7:04 pm 
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Neil of Erk wrote:
Inesdar wrote:
Hmmm Neil, I thought the Daemons in 'His Dark Materials' were sort of 'bonded animals'


Yes, but the concept of the "daemon" that was borrowed from, and mostly retained, was that a daemon is a animal which metaphorically reflects the person they bond to. In His Dark Materials the animals represent the spirit of the character they bond too.

I'm not condemning Pavalini's idea but I am saying that it could have some drawbacks.


How right you are in pointing that out, Neil. However, allow me to explain that Pullman's daemon concept more closely resembles the Shamanistic "animal guide/companion/spirit" than it does provide a metaphoric symbolism on man's animalistic nature, and the consequences inherent in all beliefs.

Pullman's metaphor says: look beside you. That animal's like a map of your personality that follows you around and talks.
My metaphor says: look in the mirror. This is what your belief's have made you.

Desiderio Domini,
Pavalini

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 Post subject: Re: A form of Magic never before seen, but entirely Christia
PostPosted: November 16th, 2010, 7:21 pm 
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Inesdar wrote:
:shock: That is entirely awesome Pavalini. I've often played with the idea of people assuming the 'true form' of their souls, but I've never been able to craft it like this.

Question, what do the Vulgrak and the Hak'tali look like?


Thanks for the encouraging words, Inesdar!

The Vulgrak are orcish in appearance. Dark-skinned, flaring nostrils, and fangs that can either stay in their mouth or protrude in an overbite, depending on the species. They have blood-red hair and eyes, and as far as physique, can be best described as bony and muscular. They grow their nails into claws and some, usually the smaller ones, run on all fours. The Vulgrak represent the Noble Savage ideology - where the premises of right and wrong are determined by reward and punishment, not law and faith.

The Hak'tali are also called the Sea Folk. They have smooth, blue skin, light pearly eyes, serrated teeth, black hair, and webbed hands and feet. They have no gills, as they breathe air (they are mammals, you see), and can hold their breath for twelve hours. They live in cities beneath the ocean made from corals and, often times, sunken ships. These cities float to the surface once a year, where thousands of chambers refill with oxygen and then sink back to the bottom of the sea to supply air to the Sea Folk for another year; though any Hak'tali may at any time swim to the surface and get air himself (it's just a long way to go - not very economical). What the Hak'tali represent, I have no clue as of yet. Perhaps a form of pantheism with the ocean and moon...

Desiderio Domini,
Pavalini

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 Post subject: Re: A form of Magic never before seen, but entirely Christia
PostPosted: November 16th, 2010, 9:46 pm 
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So, in a sense, the humans are an "open mind" that just haven't proclaimed a worldview? I like the use of transformation. Have you looked up the few times it's used in the bible? The greek is metamorphoo I believe. This reminds me so much of a bible study based on those verses. I look forward to having a chance to read any of your work.

On a side note, is there no physical change at all when any being receives Christ? It seems there should be some slight change, even in just appearing brighter or something basic like that.

Good luck in your writing.

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Haud Retene Haud Reverte

All resemblance to persons, people, friends, relatives, quotes, cultures, artificial intelligences, inside jokes, pets, unclaimed personalities, sentient objects, extra-terrestrials, inter-terrestrials, and draperies living, dead, undead, or comatose in any of my work are purely coincidental, incidental, circumstantial, inadvertent, unplanned, unforeseen, and unintentional. There's seriously no way I was referring to you. Honest.

The story so far:
Birthright: Eleventh chapter pending. 28280 words.
Heritage: First chapter drafted.
Legacy: Character and plot development stage.
Get a feel for the land. Visit Lor-Amar today!

Other novels on the brain:
Quicksilver
Shen'oh Story
Crusoe's Star
War Blazer
Seven Arts Story
The Queen's Knave
Polarians
Exile Realms
All Librarians Are Secret Agents


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 Post subject: Re: A form of Magic never before seen, but entirely Christia
PostPosted: November 17th, 2010, 4:26 pm 
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Riniel Jasmina wrote:
So, in a sense, the humans are an "open mind" that just haven't proclaimed a worldview? I like the use of transformation. Have you looked up the few times it's used in the bible? the greek is metamorphoo I believe. This reminds me so much of a bible study based on those verses. I look forward to having a chance to read any of your work.

On a side note. is there no physical change at all when any being receives Christ? It seems there should be some slight change, even in just appearing brighter or something basic like that.

Good Luck in your Writing.


When a Being becomes a Christian, say, a dwarf, it is true that over time he becomes less dwarf-ish. This progress differs from individual to individual. It is mostly something those about him can notice or recognize, but it seems so subtle it can't be measured. It is, as you put it, more of a glow or presence: he moves and stands, breathes and blinks, bends down and picks up, like a Being made in the image of God.

Desiderio Domini,
Pavalini

PS. I hope many of you realize that most of my answers to your questions, including this most recent one, were invented on the spot. In fact, much of what I've said recently contradicts my earliest statements because the idea has significantly developed from your questions. Keep them up! You are being co-authors to my book!

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 Post subject: Re: A form of Magic never before seen, but entirely Christia
PostPosted: December 5th, 2011, 11:28 pm 
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That is really cool. Do you have any other races/beliefs?

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